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slow RT man
Dodge Dakota
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1/14/2003
22:37:40
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 Subject: My RT is a pig
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Hope someone here can help me out. I have a 99 R/T with 11000 miles. I am not very happy with is performance. thinking about getting a Lightning and being done with it. Current mods are: Mopar PMC, MSD wires, 180 thermostat, K&N FIPK and relocated IAT, Quick D throttle Body (51mm), PPH
headers, 3" Random converter, 3" flowmaster delta
flow, 19lb FMS injectors. well all that stuff and it still feels weak. My best ET was a 14.8 on stock tires. I was thinking of getting the M-1 2bbl and R/T 2.02 heads -- but I don't want to spend 2 grand and find only a marginal power increase. The only option I see is a heavy dose of nitrous but I really didn't want to go that route. I want my truck deep in the 13s.
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figitdotcom
R/T
1/14/2003
22:59:50
| RE: My RT is a pig
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Those numbers don't sound right especially if it's an rc. My friend has an 03'r/t cc and he pull's 14.9's stock. I'm not a dak master or anything but common sense would tell me that if you invested in a sc you'd be able to chew through even modded lightnings. But then again if your so quick to bail on your r/t maybe a ford is the way to go for you... to each his own bro, good luck.
-m
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Slow R/T man
Dodge Dakota
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1/14/2003
23:13:23
| RE: My RT is a pig
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I've been wrenching on it for 3 years. Just tired of wasting time and money. Ive spent days on end at test and tune sessions and seen plenty of SC dakotas and they don't impress me. On hot days they run 14.5s NOTHING beats hopped-up Lightnings that I've ever seen. not that beating one is even my goal, I just want my truck to live up to its name-sake.
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big_torque
Dodge Dakota
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1/14/2003
23:54:48
| RE: My RT is a pig
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Dude , I`m in the same boat.
I have:
99 reg cab R/T
M1 2brl sm. turtle
52mmTB
headers
hi flow cat
Gibson 3"
K&N FIPK with radiator flap removed
180 stat
3923
taylor wires , brass cap n rotor
MP PCM
Roe racing controller
MT ET streets
Thats alotta sh!t .... almost $3000 w/ labor
and the best I can do is 14.83 @ 93.3 ----2.18 60` (avg 15.0 s) And dont anybody say what elevation I`m racing at. Its under 100` above sea level and in the 50s ºF at night.
dynoed 217 rwhp (before M1 and Roe)
I seen stock R/Ts run 14.80s so WTF !!!
I been thinkin` about dumpin this pig but I got heads , cam ,24# injectors, 1.6 RRs , stall , transgo , and caltracs sitting in the house waiting to go on.
Its good to hear I`m not the only one pissed off.
Slow ass computer controlled crap.
Maybe if I dump 10 grand into it , I can get into the low 16s !
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360R/T
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2003
00:29:27
|  RE: My RT is a pig
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Damn Torque! You should be a hell of a lot quicker, I can understand your frustration. My 01 R/T CC has run a best of 14.8 @ 91 w/just a FIPK, MSD 6A, Hypertech III, Flowmaster 40 and a F&B 50mm TB. Definatly wierd.
Joey
01 Silver R/T CC
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EyeTrip
R/T
1/15/2003
01:10:33
| RE: My RT is a pig
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I feel your pain, I have...
2000 CC R/T
2.02 R/T heads
Powerdyne S/C @6lbs
3 1/2" exhuast from the headers all the way back
High flow cat w 40 flowmaster
TransGo shift kit
24# "Cobra" FMS injectors
MSD Ignition W/BTM
MP PCM
Slide-A-Link Traction bars
52mm TB
No back bumper or spare tire
removed clutch fan
And with all that My best is 14.2 @ 98mph with a 2.0 60' <---Not bad for street tires On average I make upper 14's
The only thing I can think of is a cam, guys that are cranking good numbers have other than stock cams.
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2003
01:16:38
| RE: My RT is a pig
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I've notice a common mods on all three peoples truck who are complaining about running slow. The "high flow" cat. I'm wondering if maybe your cats are going bad or something. Maybe try getting rid of the cats all together, or getting cut outs, then try running again. I've had two high flow cats go bad on me before I finally just gutted the darn thing.
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Fenris
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2003
03:29:34
| RE: My RT is a pig
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I read somewhere that to take full advantage of all the aftermarket stuff, that it has to be programmed into the PCM. I think I read that on KRCperformance.com
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2003
08:53:06
| RE: My RT is a pig
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A mildly modded 4.7, as in HO cams and intake, you know, the stock factory parts from an HO, an intake such as a homebrew, and nothing, or little done to the exhaust, and they run in the 14's in the 1/4. That IS usually with a 5speed though, and usually stock tires with the lsd. So I also feel for ya. I'm not ragging on r/t's, even in stock form, they are about the nicest looking truck there is, just stating facts.
And the argument about the 5-speed not handling the torque, there are 4.7's with turbos, running in the 12's, with a 5speed NV3500 tranny, right Duner?
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bernd
*GenIII*
1/15/2003
09:03:14
| RE: My RT is a pig
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EyeTrip is correct (in a large portion). The cam is the key on these engines. While all the standard "bolt-ons" (including the heads) work well, the stock cam is a bit small and can't take advantage of the better flowing heads.
Out of the three trucks on this thread having issues, all of them are using the stock cam (from what I see on the posts).
PCM tuning is also a probability.
We had put together a '01 R/T and he ran 13.5's on nitrous (100HP shot) and 14.5's naturally aspirated. Mods were: 52mm TB, 1.6:1 Roller Rockers, JBA Headers, PreCats left intact, HighFlow Rear Cat, SpinTech muffler (stock exhaust pipe), and a K&N Intake system. Stock PCM as well.
One other thing to take into consideration: These Mopar engines are not built all exactly alike. Some make more power than others and some run quicker than others...all same models and/or years. I've seen stock R/T's run anywhere from 15.8's to 14.9's. Driver and engine tune all need to be taken into consideration as well as weather, altitude, and track conditions.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.55 @ 96.01mph
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big_torque
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2003
11:12:59
| RE: My RT is a pig
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Geez , Eyetrip , I would be bent too if I was you. You got some big mods on there. But like Bernd said , you got the stock cam and so do I.
Another thing I noticed too is really bad A/F ratios. Our PCMs run it way too rich after like 4000 rpm.
Being 4000 lbs plus doesnt help too.
I heard somewhere theres 20 HP to be had just from balance and blueprinting.
And we all know tuning is the key. You can throw on a bunch of stuff , but if the A/F and spark is off....
Why are these things so hard to tune ? That F.A.S.T. system looks awesome and maybe the answer to alot of our problems but nobody can see spending over 2K for it.
Or custom flash is 600+. geez , Im not made of money you know.
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EyeTrip
R/T
1/15/2003
13:22:23
| RE: My RT is a pig
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HSKR I am going with a cut out this spring to prove that theory. But when the cat gets plugged your exhaust temp spikes, I was battling that when I first started tweaking on this pile when I found the "Y" pipe was restricting, so I had a 3 1/2" to a 4" collector installed. Temps dropped and a bunch of power was found (about .5 ET)
Bernd, I have noticed that some are strong runners and others just have enough life to let you know they still run. Thats just an indication that this engine has a big margin on the + or - tolerance. And being such a widely used engine for so long they had the data to widen the margin (Just theory)
Question: How did your home made box work out for the MAP and IAT adjuster? I was digging around in the archives and was thinking on playing with that idea.
big_torque I'm with ya on the big cash thing.
I built a home made A/F bar indicator with LED's and that thing looks like the red light on the front of that old "NightRider" show.
And the laptop is showing that part throttle I'm finding 40deg advance on the spark, but under WOT it pulls back to 20deg. This is the first engine I have ever seen that will pull back under WOT. Most high performance engines you set the timing at full advance.
I am having a hard time justifying dumping more cash into this pig until I can get it tuned. At times, and they are not consistent, usually when just reaching 180 CHT the thing demonstrates some real power. Enough to make the front light. I know it's there I just have to figure out how to control it.
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Travis P.
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2003
14:22:35
| RE: My RT is a pig
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Im curious what kind of 60' times you guys are running. I ran my 00 cc r/t last week, phx az - 1500ft @ 50deg. I pulled a 15.5, and that was with a not so great launch. The only mods to my truck are a 180deg stat, autolite 3923's and 3 gallons of 101 octane in the tank. I am positive I can get in the high 14's if this thing will hook. Traction bars and slicks are coming in this week.
Are you guys getting good launches, or smoking the tires? What are your reaction times? What are your 60' times? Are you shifting the druck or leaving it in drive?
Personally, I have only had this truck like 3 weeks. I am going to take a very slow and methodical approach with my mods, paying alot of attention to traction and power bands. I would recomend checking the Dyno (someone above mentioned dyno figures) and seeing exactly where the power band sits for your truck and making sure you stay in it.
For example - I hear alot about low end torque loss with the m1. If this is the case with your trucks, I would do everything possible (huge slicks, traction bars, stall conv. etc) to make sure I was able to launch around 3k or where ever the power is.
Just my .02c
Travis P - AZ 00 cc r\t
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big_torque
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2003
15:05:56
| RE: My RT is a pig
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With the RSAs I get all kinds of hop and spin. 2.2- 2.3 60 ft. is norm. I tried MT ET streets. 26-10.5-15. 18 psi. 60 ft didnt get much better. Barely under 2.2. Spin is gone but tons of wheel hop. I do a 5 sec "dry" burnout. Hold brake and get rpms to about 1500. Anything more it lurches fwd. Last amber and I take foot off brake and squeeze GO pedal all the way down.
I saw on video when I launch , the ass end squats and then pops back up right away. Its like it just dies after hooking up. I got Cal Tracs and a MP 2400 stall yet to put on. That better help , damnit.
Eyetrip , I cant believe the timing is retared that much @ WOT. What ECU do you have ? And you found a half sec. by changing the collector ? Wow.
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figitdotcom
R/T
1/15/2003
15:33:12
| RE: My RT is a pig
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man you guys are intimidating the hell out of me : O ) with all these terms and logic. At what point do you really need to get your truck finely "tuned" ... I have a fastman tb, airade intake, gibson catback, jba wires, I'm getting the shaker setup,mopar pcm and headers in the next two weeks. Oh, I have a 00' R/T cc .. so my question is, do I need to worry about all the factors you guys are talking about just yet or are my mods basic enough to where I'm not hiding any power??
thanks a bunch, please answer me man now I feel like I should stay up all night and learn what all this A/F ratios,collector,spark advances etc. means!
-m
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EyeTrip
R/T
1/15/2003
16:28:20
| RE: My RT is a pig
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My cross over had a dent in it and the collector was a very poor merge. In essence it had it's problems.
To clear up a myth, reaction times have nothing to do with your ET's, the time starts when you break the lights.
My tires Nokian WR-T 255/55 R17 directional, with the slide-a-link traction bars and hotchkis suspension, my weight transfer is not great but I don't have wheel hop.
I do lock it down in 1st on launch and bump it into 2nd @4500 and 3rd @4000, the MP PCM will shift @6000. I do that because it seems to have an effect on the torque converter (Locks up sooner) And I bring the RPM up to 2300 before launch. Yes it spins, I need slicks. Keep in mind that my stock valve train and beer keg is all about low end grunt. I know the torque curve is low but I think the S/C helps the top end, so it's still pulling. I have played with RPM's and techniques and this is the method that I came up with for this setup.
It seems to fall on it's face when it shifts into 3rd so I'm looking into a possible trans problem.
I hope this answers some questions.
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big_torque
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2003
16:48:54
| RE: My RT is a pig
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fidgitdotcom , I think you`ll be fine with what you`re gonna do. I think the problem starts when you get into heads , cam , or supercharging.
Did you buy your MP PCM yet ? Im not happy with mine. It slowed me down a little bit. I like the 5200 rpm shift point and the advanced timing , but it makes my truck run too rich. Didnt notice any performance improvment by seat of the pants feel.
I dunno maybe it`ll work good on your truck. I hear people really like the B&G M1 flash.
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CW
GenIII
1/15/2003
21:53:18
|  RE: My RT is a pig
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I would be pissed as well but you have to match engine components. M-1 a single plane short runner intake something that is designed to work at a higher RPM level 3000-6500 RPM as a guess. Then there is that stock cam that is designed to work at idle to 4000 RPM. Just as stuff like the intake comes on the cam signs off. Heads cam intake and exhaust have to be matched.
Do the whole package. Cam matched to the intake for RPM, heads matched for flow on cam, TB flowing enouph to keep things happy at peak RPM, headers and exhaust to get rid of gasses.
Eye trip: On the PCM timing issue 20 degrees does sound very low. Just as a guess 32-36 degrees sounds more like it. I run 38 degrees on my old '79. You want me to get back to you as soon as I can with some timing figures from other trucks? I wonder if the distributer sync signal is at 0 to +4 degrees.
4.7 HO, CW style
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm TB, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" Z-tube, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat, Electric fan Convertion, HO cams, Robert shaw 180 therm, HO intake manifold.
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EyeTrip
R/T
1/15/2003
23:14:03
| RE: My RT is a pig
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That would be most helpful CW, I would be most grateful.
The distributor sync signal, can you elaborate on that a little? I have been reading the laptop for those numbers, I know it's the PCM I'm reading but can they be off from the real thing?
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Daker777
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2003
04:12:50
| RE: My RT is a pig
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Damn that time seems all wrong. My buddy kevin pulls 13.5xs all the time with just bolt ons in his rc 99. He has a cut out, 456s, 52tb, pph headers, m1 2 barrel,k&n, mopar pcm, and slicks, and cuts mid 13s all day long, even without the gears he was in 13.6xs. Are you at a high altitude? Something seems wrong, especially for a rc.
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EyeTrip
R/T
1/16/2003
06:10:12
| RE: My RT is a pig
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Yeah something is wrong, this summer I'm going to do a M1 and a cam ... but what I would love to find out is what the he11 the problem is .... It pulls hard sometimes but when I'm at the track it's a turd every time....it's got to be a sensor somewhere causing it. I know I can pull a Lightning but at the track I can't even come close. I am frustrated
I haven't tried the diode in the MAP because I have yet a buddies 63 ford falcon in the garage right now. I am looking for a sensor problem with this turd I know it's there.
I am going to build a "happy box" for the MAP, IAT and CHT Box, I know it's just an artificial way to managing it. I have some good ideas how to try now. I am very happy to entertain any suggestions.
I am on a mission.
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big_torque
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2003
10:22:25
| RE: My RT is a pig
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Daker777 , mid 13s with just those bolt ons ? I have more stuff than that and I`m over 1 sec slower.
I`m not calling you a liar but I just cant believe that.
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CW
GenIII
1/16/2003
19:24:56
| RE: My RT is a pig
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Haven't gotten a chance to look today at timing. I am having to rebuild a 6 speed and those are a nightmare. I will tell you what my truck does even though it is a 4.7. As soon as I can I will see what a 5.9 pulls. May take a bit for that because I have to have a reason to have the DRB on the truck when I test drive it.
Distributer sync signal as far as I know can only be read in degrees with the DRB III. It can be set with a ohm meter. It is on Bernds site under tips and tricks. I prefer to set it with the DRB because it shows you exactly what degree it is set at.
4.7 HO, CW style
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm TB, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" Z-tube, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat, Electric fan Convertion, HO cams, Robert shaw 180 therm, HO intake manifold.
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chris
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2003
20:11:37
| RE: My RT is a pig
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eyetrip you arn't joking about how sometimes it pulls and sometimes it doesnt. I have found that when the engine is cold, either REALLY baby it till it is warm and then romp on it for a little bit. Or after the engine has been runnin for a min or two, romp on it. Sometimes this truck is a beast, but other times it can really tick. Try resetting the cpu, this usually makes it run richer and when I run best.
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Buddy Jones
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2003
20:45:41
| RE: My RT is a pig
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Listen, this is to everyone!R/T's, or any Dak for that matter are the most inconsistent trucks in the world(I would think litterely by looking at stock e/t's).Don't be upset.I ran my truck once on a GTech(piece of crap), got a 16.2 at 93, but can constantly beat IROC's and Mustang GT's.Same conditions also.
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TJ318
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2003
21:47:22
| RE: My RT is a pig
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I know this is a RT disscusion, but... I have a 92 dakota with the following mods:
1992 V8 4x4 Dakota
Long Bed, Auto, 46RH
3.90s, DT Headers
Port/Polished TB
MP Computer, FM Muffler
Functional RamAir Hood
15.74@87.59
2.385 60'
4400 lbs race weight
And it will run that any time of day, any day, at the track. Maybe I just got a good motor (318), dont know. But what are all of your MPH?? I see a lot of times posted but now speeds, and if all of you are having traction problems, most of the time your MPH will only loose a little bit but your ET suffers the most... That MPH will still give you a good indication of how many HP you're making and with a simple formula you can figure what your time ought to be with perfect traction.
Just a thought.
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Travis P.
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2003
23:25:57
| RE: My RT is a pig
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Big_torque - Hang in there, you'll find the setup. GET THOSE TRACTION BARS ON THERE!!!! They should eliminate the wheel hop and get you down below the 2sec 60 times.
I think the launch is very telling here. When you say it squats and then pops back up right away, that is your leaf springs distorting and then snapping back into place. When that happens, the diff rotates and your driveshaft gets very unhappy. Not saying this is causing the engine to bog (I think that is what you were sayin), but it WILL slow you down big time. Get the traction bars on there and see how high RPMS you can launch on. It may get you past the bog in 1st gear.
EyeTrip - I understand about the reaction time thing, but if you are smoking them at the line, and it takes .5 sec for you to cut the beam, youll still be smoking when it cuts. They can be telling.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
1/17/2003
02:35:49
| RE: My RT is a pig
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big torque, its true. kevin ran a 13.56@99 mph at carlsbad. i was also there.
he has just stock heads and cam, and only bolt ons. to the list of mods that was already listed, he also has 1.7 roller rockers, and a electric fan. his truck also has no AC, so that saves a bit of weight
~Eric
Single cam, non-VTEC
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EyeTrip
R/T
1/17/2003
03:46:21
| RE: My RT is a pig
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HAHA I love it "non-VTEC"
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big_torque
Dodge Dakota
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1/17/2003
09:26:09
| RE: My RT is a pig
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Thanks all for the words of encouragement. Yeah , I cant wait to get the Cal-Tracs on and especially the 2400 stall.
I heard somewhere that whatever you shave off in the 60 ft` , you double it for the ET. I guess that would put me about 14.4 @ 93 with a 2.0 60ft. I`d be happy with that. (`til the heads and cam go in)
non-VTEC LOL
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CW
GenIII
1/18/2003
12:41:31
| RE: My RT is a pig
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EyeTrip: I took my truck for a spin and I only get 20° of spark advance full throttle third gear. At first it goes as low as 13°. Pathetic.
4.7 HO, CW style
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm TB, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" Z-tube, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat, Electric fan Convertion, HO cams, Robert shaw 180 therm, HO intake manifold.
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