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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/08/2002
09:17:12
|
 Subject: Hey 4.7L guys
IP: Logged
Message:
Can I get some help here?
I have e-mailed Hughes a couple weeks ago, asking when they're going to add their high performance cams they advertize. Well they only could tell me it'll be on the site as soon as they add it. It seems like they have added a link right below all of the 4.7L mods (it may have been there before but I think it's new) Anyways it would be great if we could send these guys some e-mails and show them there is a demand for some hp cams. My luck I'll get tired of waiting and put in the HO's and then they'll add it. I just don't want to go threw all that hassle just for a mild upgrade.
Thanks everyone
http://www.hughesengines.com/www/hughesengines/
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Chipster
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/08/2002
11:56:39
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Message:
The only work Hughs has done on the 4.7 is to
the web site. I talked to Dave 6 months ago,
he said he could get the cams going in a
month. He is stuck in the past and the only
thing he is looking forward to is the new Hemi
motor. Go for the HO cams.
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Pete
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/08/2002
13:27:50
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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I looked at that link. I hate to say it but theres no way thats for a 4.7l. The timing chain, the one CAM.....
I sent them an email too.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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7/08/2002
13:41:23
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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I don't think that link was related to the 4.7 motors. I think it's just more stuff that's "Coming Soon."
Here's some insight on Hughes Racing. He's been around for decades and he's got the old motors down pat. But he doesn't know how to surf the web. He even has a guy print out his e-mail and read it to him. He doesn't come to these forums and he doesn't understand about the demand for performance from these motors. He was amazed to find out that the HO cams were only $70/cam. He's really convinced that there's no performace demand for this motor.
He needs to guess again, since the entire line of Dodge trucks just switched over to this motor as its base V-8. I would go ahead and spend the $150 and 5-hours to have the hp now. When Hughes comes out with his, you can send in your original cams as cores and get a little $$ back on a new set from him. 5 more hours and you've got even more power. But I think waiting on him to play catch up is going to get pretty boring......
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Chipster
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/08/2002
13:46:00
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Message:
Well said Alex.
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crm
Dodge Dakota
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7/08/2002
14:08:13
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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/me raises his hand in support of alex's statement. i'm paying a bit more to have a dealership install it, but for the money it's still worth it. more worthwhile than waiting IMHO.
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/09/2002
02:19:07
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Message:
Well I just re-emailed Hughes:
I was on your site and notice you had "plans" for high performance cams for the Dodge 4.7L. From what I hear, you guys aren't really in too much of a hurry to help us 4.7L owners out. Well your missing out, there isn't to many people that leave their 4.7L stock, the high performance mod trend is a big thing right now, and us 4.7L guys / gals are just as bad if not worse than mustang owners. Currently Jeep has an HO version. There are a good hand full of people that have installed these cams, and they haven't been out for very long. I would like to install these cams but if someone (you) were going to make a "stronger" cam than the HO, I'd rather go that route, although I'm not going to wait forever. Each day you delay your loosing valuable customers, as they choose the Jeep HO cam route.
I understand if you feel you may not cover the cost, and man hours for better cams, but there is more demand than you think. I don't care how cheap the Jeep cams are, if you have a "bigger" cam, that's the route people will go, it's not an easy task to install these cams, so if I go through the trouble of installing these cams I want the best available, even if it does mean I have to spend more. It sounds as if your making a pretty nice cam, and I take it that's the reason for the PCM upgrade, if that's the case it sounds like this set of cams will be a nice improvement.
Do yourself a favor and check out these sites, here you'll find so many people wanting better cams, to unleash the power, now there just has to be a company willing to make them.
dodgedakotas.com
dodgetruck.org
dodgetruckworld.com
Thanks for your time and I hope your plans for the 4.7L Cams are promising.
Nick
I hope this does some good sheesh it's not like we own a 1979 chevette diesel (just a made up car) common you hypo b@stards make a set of cams.
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yates-in-de1
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/09/2002
02:38:51
|  RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Message:
This is my e-mail status:
-----Original Message-----
From: Hughes Engines Inc. [mailto:information@hughesengines.com]
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 4:47 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Performance parts for Dodge 4.7 Magnums
When are you going to start putting some on the market? You know Performance parts like Cams, intakes, Etc. The 4.7 Liter Daimler Chrysler engines, have a lot of potential, lets see some potential.
Lynn
Lynn,
We agree about the potential of this engine. Unfortunately there
doesn't seem to be a lot of demand for performance parts so we are
having a hard time getting it done. We are working on it as time
permits. The cams will probably be available first...hopefully by
the end of the year. Finding cam cores to start with is quite a
challenge. The next step will be modifying the intake. The
intakes are composite material and next to impossible to work on.
We are exploring different avenues though and hope to have something for
you guys. With the introduction of the 5.7 Hemi it seems like
everybodies interest is veering in that direction.
Keep an eye on our web site.
Thanks, Kevin@HEI
Hughes Engines inc.
23334 Wiegand Lane
Washington, IL 61571
Voice: (309) 745-9558
Fax: (708) 401-0477
www.hughesengines.com
Kevin,
You don't seem to have a lot of demand for performance parts for this engine? Then the fact that what few parts are available on the market is back ordered for months. That all the people that I know that own them spend HOURS surfing the net looking for parts, and spend lots of time on dodge forums trading ideas to make do with the limited resources we have. OK develop parts for the 5.7 Hemi's that are another couple years from production and ignore the obvious. Seems someone is suffering from Ostrich Syndrome. Right now myself, I have a $7,000 mechanical budget for upgrades to my truck. You know I've spent very little of that.
Maybe I've missed the obvious, Hughes Engines doesn't have the knowledge or expertise necessary to design upgrades for this Engine. That Hughes Engines is still working with past proven technology that it has borrowed from others. Well either way I'm flogging a dead horse.
Thanks for your 5 min time and research.
Thanks,
Lynn
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2002
11:30:09
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Wow Lynn, I say you just go down there and kick Kevin's @ss hehe, Here is what I've got back from Kevin.
Nick,
Thanks for writing back. We do understand that there are guys out
there wanting to unleash the true potential of these engine. We know
it could be a power house. I know that you and your buddies are all
talking in the forums and it does affect how fast the new parts will
get done. These are VERY difficult parts to produce. The intake is a
composite plastic material that is very hard to work with and the
overhead cams are a whole different story. Finding cores to start
with and then the time we spend designing the grinds can be very
hard to do. We actually work with the factory engineers who designed
the H.O. cam and are trying to improve on it instead of just
duplicate it like other places are doing. Please be patient and tell
you friend on the forums to hang in there. We appreciate hearing
from you guys. The more of you who call and write the harder we will
work on it. There is only so much time in a day. We are trying to do
the 5.7 Hemi also so R&D is very extensive right now and has
stretched our resources to the limit. The racers and cruisers are
going in full swing now so we usually tend to slow up in the shop
this time of year so that will help too.
Have a great day!
Kevin @ HEI
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Pete
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/09/2002
12:52:24
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Message:
Heres my email:
Hi,
I own a 2000 Dakota with a 4.7l V8 287ci. I was looking at your website for some cams. I see that they are under development. There has been no updates for some time now, Summer? I would like to put my name on the waiting list if possible. I am looking forward to these and would like to install one of the first sets. I have already installed the factory HO cams but would like more. I have the factory cams as cores if needed. Please keep me posted on your production. Thanks!
Pete J.
Response:
Pete,
I know it seems like forever but we are still working on the cams and intakes for the 4.7. It has turned into a bigger project than we anticipated, but, we are forging ahead. When our cams do come out , you can be assured that they will be the best available. We are going to do it right. We understand that it is a lot of work to put these in and we want them to be right. I appreciate you writing to us. The more letters and calls we get the more pressure I can put on the R&D guys to hurry up!!!!
Thanks, Kevin @ HEI
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/09/2002
14:47:20
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Message:
see guys it's working, my first e-mail a while ago Kevin kinda blew me off with a simple they will be posted on the site when they're available. Now he sounds a bit more interested, maybe just maybe if we bug them enough, something might just come out of this.
Again, thanks for all your help, because of this site, we may influence a company to make more power for us.
I'm going to drop him another line now infact.
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yates-in-de
GenIII
7/09/2002
14:55:38
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
IP: Logged
Message:
Well Clevite I may have gone overboard A Little, but at least they know we are here. Here is the reply to the last e-mail. DOH
Lynn,
Seems like a little harsh of a letter. I was only saying that we do not receive a lot of request for the parts. If there were a high demand for these parts don't you think they would
be more readily available. The market in general responds to demand, right. If more of your buddies would e-mail us and call us I am sure that would affect how fast things happen. You yourself said you and your buddies spend hours searching for them.
There is no reason to get upset with us because we can't respond to your needs fast enough. Obviously no one else can either. We are working on parts for these daily. I can pretty much guarantee you that when the first "good" parts become available for these engines it will be from us. If you know of some technology that I don't that will make working on these composite
intakes easier please share it. Accusing us of not having the "knowledge or expertise" to do the work is a ridiculous thing for you to say, especially since you are basing it on nothing. I only know of one place in the country offering a
cam upgrade for the 4.7 and from what we know it is no better than the stock High Output cam from Mopar. We could offer you parts like that but we thought you guys wanted performance parts. If you can be patient and give us a chance we will be
glad to help you make your truck fast. Keep calling and writing and we will keep trying on our end.
Thanks for your ideas and have a great day!
Kevin @HEI
Well hope he gets over it soon, I would. Maybe if he knows we are all here then he can keep after the R&D people and say see look at the $ we are loosin.
Later,
Lynn
'02 Flame Red CC, 4.7, 5 Speed, 3.92's, KB Optimizer II, IP Z-Tube w/7" S&B,[b] 3" Y-pipe back w/Flowmaster 50 Series,[b]Bell Tech 2"x4" Drop, Saddleman Soft Tonneau, RS 180 t-stat, Autolite 3923's,[b]Pirelli Scorpion Zero's 275/60-16's, Savin for the KB Twin Screw Super Charger
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CW
GenIII
7/09/2002
21:15:41
|  RE: Hey 4.7L guys
IP: Logged
Message:
Hey guys I have a idea. If I can find out how much duration and lift that the 4.7 can handle before piston contact is a concern. I will then get a set custom ground and try and find a set of springs. Why wait for them build your own.:)
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/09/2002
23:19:06
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Message:
Heh, time for everyone to pitch in and mass order Ross pistons, valve jobs, and the like. Group buy custom parts?
All your e-mails kicks mine's ass, mine just said "we're working on it, hang in there!" or something.
Need to create 4.7L Spam Bots to mass mail Hughes everyday.
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/10/2002
00:48:10
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Message:
Hey CW, if you find out the specs, let me know I'll e-mail hughes, this may be of some help.
well xplikt, the first reply I got back was a simple, "keep an eye on our website, and as soon as we have them we'll add it to the site"
LMAO we need to get on his back and make sure they get going with this, not to piss them off by sending spam, Nice call though
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/10/2002
09:29:36
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Message:
Maybe we should all try crane, comp, and any others. we got hughes to look into it a bit more, who knows?
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CW
GenIII
7/10/2002
09:32:17
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
IP: Logged
Message:
Heres what they threw back at me. They must be watching the forums because they used my handle to address me and I never supplied it.
The specs are something that we are still working on.
You will not be able to have our cams reground from the original cams. They cannot handle the lift.
You would have to start with a new core. Good luck finding one.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods
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CW
GenIII
7/10/2002
14:31:00
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Message:
I also e-mailed comp cams on the regrinding. The lobe separation can not be narrowed but the lift and duration can be modified to a point. If I do this I think I will start with a HO set of cames and increase the duration and lift a little on the intake and then as much as possible on the exhaust.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods
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CW
GenIII
7/10/2002
14:31:39
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Message:
Oh yeah $115 a cam to regrind them.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/10/2002
16:07:42
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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hey CW, $230 + $150 for cams, is a bit pricey but the cobra 4.6L motor (4 cam setup) is close to a grand.
when they regrind a cam, do they put welds on it and then grind them down? If so, how accurate is this, 2) do the lobes have a chance to fall off? 3) will the reground cam cause the motor to have that awesome lope sound (I know it's only a small block but I can wish can't I) and my last question, will a computer upgrade be required with the "bigger" cam?
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Chipster
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/10/2002
17:57:51
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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CW, you better be careful with the lift. I talked
to Dave @ Hughes and he was worried about
the spring getting totally compressed.
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WallyR
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/10/2002
20:13:36
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Message:
Cleve,
One of the popular ways of doing a regrind is to reduce the base circle of the lobe. Lobe separation typically cannot be changed because the existing peak on the lobe remains the same minus a "kiss" from the grinder to clean it up. The increase in lift with hyd. lifters is limited by their range, or stroke. I considered sending mine in for a regrind, but decided to wait for cams with a ground up profile. And yes, coil stack in the springs can lead to immediate devastation, especially on OHC motors-there's no pushrod to bend.
Wally
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CW
GenIII
7/10/2002
20:54:10
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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I am not worried about that as I will not use the same springs. I am sure that I can find some that will fit.
Clevite 77- To get more lift they just grind the base circle down and let the lash adjuster take up the slack. It does however limit the ammout you can grind them. Should be able to shim up the lash adjuster though.
The lobes have no chance of falling off. The actual ammount that has to ba taken off of a cam to make more lift is less than the actual lift because of the rocker arms. The multiply the ammount of lift on the cam by what ever is the spec. eg. 1.6 on the magnums.
To get a cam to lift .050" more with a 1.6 rocker engine like the magnum only .031" has to be taken off of the cam. Not very much to make a difference. My calculated rocker ratio is about 1.8 on the 4.7s so even less has to be taken off the cam to make a difference.
The lope you refer to will probably not happen as the stock cam I think is ground on a 119 degree lobe separation and engines that idle like that are usualy going to have a 112 or less in lobe separation. Sounds cool but kills torque in a small engine like this one.
I do not plan on getting crazy enouph with the cam to require a computer change but a good flash would compliment it well.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/10/2002
22:14:56
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Thanks a lot guys, I appreciate the info. Now to get them to make/regrind the s.o.b.'s
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CW
GenIII
7/10/2002
22:32:37
|  RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Now all I need money.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/11/2002
00:06:23
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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uhhh....you mean these cams aren't going to be free??? Doahhhh looks like I better start saving LOL.
I know what cha mean man, $150 for the HO's isn't all that bad, I'm afraid to see what these are going to cost.
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CW
GenIII
7/11/2002
08:58:10
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Custom stuff isn't cheap. I will take some measurments after I get back from holidays and see if the originals cams can be used.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods
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Joshua
Dodge Dakota
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7/11/2002
16:03:42
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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I emailed hughes too! Basically told them I didnt want to waste money on the HO cams if theres will be released soon. Summer of 2002.
There response,
Joshua,
Thanks for writing. We are getting closer daily. We should be close to having these cams ready by the end of summer or early fall.
Kevin@HEI
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/11/2002
16:38:09
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Thanks Joshua, I/we appreciate your help along with the others who have all e-mailed Hughes, there is no way we could have gotten this far without everyone's help. I'm wondering what this 4.7L is really capable of,
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Muzzy
GenIII
7/12/2002
06:01:15
|  RE: Hey 4.7L guys
IP: Logged
Message:
CW-
You might try calling Crane or Ultradyne to see if they can give you a better quote.
Since you are willing to be guinea pig with custom cams, I'd be willing to donate a couple bucks to help with the R&D. Anyone else interested in donating like $10 each to get the cam rolling (pun intended). If it turns out well, maybe we could get some sort of group buy going.
-Muzzy
2001 EC Dakota 4x4 - 287ci V8 - 5 Speed - 3.92 gears/w Sure Grip
Borla Stainless Steel Headers - IAT Adjuster
Flowmaster Force II Cat Back - Ported TB/Custom Cold Air intake
H&K USC Security System
Coming Soon - head porting/ install HO cams & valve springs
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CW
GenIII
7/12/2002
08:49:08
| RE: Hey 4.7L guys
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Message:
I still have a little research to do. But useing the stockers look like a option making the cost less. Crane has no 800 number expencive call to make during the day down there. I will look up ultradyne. If ya wanna play ya gotta pay.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods
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