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tomassa
Dodge Dakota
9/10/2001
21:25:35
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 Subject: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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neighbor just came home with a 1970 ranchero 3 speed auto trans with the 351 cleveland, no mods, said he would bury me at a quartet mile. have i got a chance with a 2000 4.7 aoto v8mag. no mods at all ?oh yeagh cc thanks
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Marc 99 R/T
Dodge Dakota
9/10/2001
23:47:12
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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I think you're screwed 351c if it has nothing more than good spark plugs and an oil change... But, good luck
Marc 99 r/t
lots of cool stuff
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Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
9/11/2001
01:14:45
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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My Dad had a 57 Ranchero with a 351 Cleavland. Nice peice of Ford engineering have fun. BTW I may buy my Dad's 65 Falcon Ranchero with a 302 that has some goodies in it. She's been sitting a long long time but for 2 grand CAN I may take the project on. It's a nice light chassis and as anyone knows lot's of cheap goodies out their to get a carb 302 running quick. I will still mod my Dak but it's bloody exspensive with no finacial reward down the road. Still fun however.
I will probably be called a liar by some for my next comment but that's OK A convertiable late model Cobra was crushed today from a rolling start just as I shifted into second. Anyone who has a 4.7 5 speed knows what this truck will do in second gear at 2,700 rpm. In fairness it was an auto with 2 big guys on board but it was him that heard my exaust and wanted to try and put me in my spot.I was taking it easy not wanting to get crushed but was surprised again. These little cammers with 3.92's can really spoil someones day.
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kota on 20s
Dodge Dakota
9/11/2001
03:27:48
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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jeffster, not to rain on your parade, but no cobra was ever built with a auto. it may have been a GT with cobra bages, bumper, hood, and front valance.
Eric
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Richard
Dodge Dakota
9/11/2001
16:43:09
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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Tomassa, Do you happen to know which engine it is. Meaning, is it 2-barrel or 4-barrel and if you could find out the engine code. But I think that you do not stand a chance if it is a four-barrel and he know how to drive without spining the tires because I have a 73 torino w a 351c and it had less horsepower than the 70 model 351. So you are looking at racing a truck that has about the same weight as you do if not less and at least 300 hp. I can get you the exact numbers if you tell me what engine code he has,ie the fifth letter on the vin #.
Richard
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Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
9/11/2001
22:31:17
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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Thanks Eric. I don't know to much about them just saw the Cobra badge on it. The car at least sounded cocky but hey I will take it regardless.
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Moe
Dodge Dakota
12/20/2001
18:56:02
|  RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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Hey ..i just bout a xa 4 door with a 351,nine inch diff and toploader, its my first car (iam only 16), i luv the old fords .but i was just wondering if u knew or estimated how much Hp id be running off it ....its a normal 351 ,2v heads, 4 barrel carb ..iam goin 2 get the carb re -conditioned ..so iam hoping it will go alright .
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moT
Dodge Dakota
12/20/2001
21:17:00
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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what is a xa 4 door.
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DakGuy
Dodge Dakota
12/21/2001
09:04:22
|  RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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I smoked my buddies Mach1 with a 351 Cleveland so you might have a chance, try it.
Good Luck,
01'4.7L,RC,5spd.,3.92LSD
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
12/21/2001
12:03:26
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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There are far too many variables to decide an outcome.
How fast was a stock '70 Ranchero? I bet they were mid 16 second cars.
Did it come with the 351 Cleveland in it? If not than there is absolutely no telling how fast or slow it might be.
I'd say just go run them and then come back and tell us how it did! hehehe
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340 party
Dodge Dakota
12/21/2001
13:42:01
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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If you have a 4.7 5 speed RC I'd be willing to bet my pay check that youd blow his doors off. A 351 clevland is nothing special stock. I bet a stock one would have a hard time runnng low 16's
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conig
Dodge Dakota
12/21/2001
17:24:56
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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ya'll are aware that the diff between a 351 cleveland and a 351 windsor is the cleveland has 4bolt main. only diff Iknow of anyway.
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Dr Q
DakotaEnthusiast
12/21/2001
17:42:53
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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My dad had a 400 Cleveland in his '73 LTD Staton Wagon. While it did haul for a family truckster and we did have some cool adventures in it.(mostly while parked..NUDGE..NUDGE..WINK..WINK) I really don't think it could touch an RC 4.7.
Dr.Q
'01 Patriot Blue SLT RC 4.7 5sp 3.92 pegleg
0-60 @ 6.20sec.
1/4mi @ 14.75@97.1
Home Brew Airbox
K&N Drop In
Lakewood Traction Bars
Dremel TB Port and Polish
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superRoo
Dodge Dakota
12/27/2001
22:57:08
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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an XA Four Door is an Australian falcon - the first in the entirely Aussie falcon line up, after the US stopped making them. Rather nice bloody car really ;)
www.falcongt.com.au - i'm sure you'd find some interesting stuff in there, its all about australian fords...
myself, i've got a 4v clevo in an 73 Ford Landau (super luxo version of the XB coupe...bloody go slow bits...ah well..rare as hell)...290 stock...but thats the LX engine (same as the GT's)...so i'm not sure wot your 4 door would have...is it a gt or not? Keep in mind its going to be old and tired (i'm assuming u've bought a cheapy to do up...if not u should have, more fun that way ;)
as for what they run... i thnk i saw an et of 17 for the landau - mind you, thats with an FMX auto, 2.75 gears, and a 1.7-somethin ton coupe (kinda heavy over here...not really sure bout there...but eh). Nothing a fibre glass bonnet boot and doors' would fix. I'd guess the XA would run high 15's or so with the same engine, being a touch lighter
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jjj
Dodge Dakota
12/29/2001
19:26:36
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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I think you are mistaken on the only diff. between the Cleveland and windsor being the 4 bolts. The Cleveland heads are absolutely huge on the ports. Too big for street use unless you have a really good Ford guy making it run. Never ran into a good street running Ford with my Cuda. I think the dak would take it. The horsepower rating s of 70 was measured differently than today.
Jeff
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fred
Dodge Dakota
12/29/2001
20:08:51
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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The cleveland is a big block ford and the windsor is a small block ford.
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Rob
Dodge Dakota
12/30/2001
11:37:31
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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Fred!!!
WHAT a Cleveland is a big block and a windsor is a small block?
where did you hear that crock. the difference between a 351 cleveland and a windsor a lot more than jsut bolt mains. heads are different, the size of the motors are the same they are both small blocks.
Rob
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danny
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/15/2002
14:16:51
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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i have a mustang 5.0 302 and i would like to put a larger size engine. i am thinking about a 351 cleveland but some people are telling me to put a windsor. which is better and why? or should i just fix up my 302 with an edelbrock manifold, paxton super etc. nani94303@yahoo.com
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scat pack
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2002
18:48:59
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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I'm no phord man but I've heard one's a small block and one's a big block. Stiffer big block could make a bit more power. Ratings changed in 1972. My 1973 generic motors was rated 180 h.p. My 2000 4.7 has 50 more h.p. from a liter less dsplacement. The older 351 will have a little more h.p. from higher compression - I think this could come down to who gets the best launch.
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Fred
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2002
20:49:34
|  RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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I stand by my first statement. Here is proof:
http://www.vintage-mustang.com/topics/faq/351windsorcleveland.html
Rob!!!!!
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Moe
Dodge Dakota
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2/13/2002
01:23:33
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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Thanks superoo 4 the repley ...i got it running the other ..i took it out on the road ..bluddy hell it might have been i tired engine ..But it throws u bak in ur chair (like any clevo) its actully got the GT bonnet and alot others ..good bargin i got .
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/13/2002
09:29:50
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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You gotta be careful when dealing with some of those late muscle cars. A friend of mine had a 377 Elky that'd spin 7500RPM and put out something like 580HP and 440Lb/ft of torque, managed to pull down a win against a 502 Camero. Mind you that this engine was natrally aspirated and no nitrous. There was NOTHING that would tell you that this engine was anything special w/o digging in the internals. He had to sell it to pay bills, but the guy who owns the drivetrain now has it in a Nova an is in the 10's. He's currently working on a different Elky that he picked up for a couple hundred bucks, the motor he's planning on planting in it is a 283 designed for 8500RPM, I keep telling him that he needs to go VTEC hunting and suprise people that think you need DOHC to rev.
Just because a car has "just a small block" doesn't mean it's not fast. (though there are alot of slow ass cars w/ just a small block) :)
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Eduardo Corte
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/17/2002
19:11:14
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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Hello guys please read all of this well there are 3 different 351 engine the first one is the 351 windsor with smallerheads than the 351 cleveland and has a better oiling system is only a bigger 302.The 2nd is a 351M-400 this 351 is a destroked 400ci big block it has a bad oiling system, smaller intake and exaust valves than a 351 cleveland lower comprettion than the cleveland.And last of all there is the 351 cleveland family engine 335ci huge intake and exaust valves higher comprettion than the 351windsor and 351m-400 called ''modified'' it also has a bad oiling system it comes in 2v or 4v. Personally I think the cleveland is the best 351.What dou you guys think.
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Wayne
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/17/2002
19:53:28
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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The 4- Barrel 351 Cleveland is probably the best engine that Ford has ever made(maybe the BOSS lines as well). They are getting hard to find. The blocks are diffenent than the Windsor and Modified. The intakes are different, as well as the heads, and none of the cleveland parts will fit the M or W emgines. If you want to give this guy a try, I'd be interested in the results, but do not hold you breath unless you are packing 325-350HP and have a solid tranny. Most came with the C-6 and it will smoke the tires in first and second, and with slight modifications chirp 3rd.
Good luck
Wayne
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agent grape
Dodge Dakota
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2/19/2002
20:50:16
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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i might be able to shed some lite for you.i have a 2000 dakota 4.7 4x4 w a k&n bumped timing and acustom cat back exhaust.i have been street racing for 24 years the dakota is very quick even with 32x11.50 tires i can still leave over a hundred feet of nice rubber tracks. i also have a 1971 mach1 with a 351c however this a 550 hp full roller race motor the car goes consistent 11.20s at 119 mph. on street tires w/closed exhaust. i think the ranchero with modern tireswill beat the dakota but it will be very close. also after 30 plus years of running i dont think the motor is bone stock just a better exhaust better &air cleaner will give the ford about 25 more hp than stock. the 351c is a small block only chevy pussies who will run a 350 vs a 302 will whine cause the 351c kills 350s also there are many versions of the cleveland h-code 2bbl 240hp
2-m-codes 280hp [cj] 285 hp and r-code 330hp boss 351. email me if you want more info
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moe
Dodge Dakota
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2/22/2002
00:03:38
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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The 351 and 302 BOSS engines were made to perfection , while windsor and clevo were made trying 2 improve each other in performance (i think BOSS was made after clevo ),Windsor was made and could perform easy at high revs ..Clevo was made and was said 2 produce more power and rev highly but not as easy as the windsor ..iam not very sure bout the boss , but i was told it was made 2 perform better than both windsor & clevo, perfection made on the block and heads . and is said 2 be perfect wen it comes down 2 producing the power (u just need 2 know wat u r doing )
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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4/14/2002
12:20:44
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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Let me clear this mess up: a Boss 351 IS a Cleveland, just with solid lifters and a few other tweaks. It is a small block. It DOES NOT have a "bad" oiling system, it has the SAME oiling as the 429/460 385 series engine. The Cleveland got a bad rap on oiling because well meaning old farts like Don Nickelson and Gapp and Roush shifted their 1970's 351 Pinto prostockers at 10,500 rpm's with improper oil control thru the roller lifters.
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ALEX
Dodge Dakota
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4/14/2002
12:30:24
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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Let me ask this..... why are we arguing about 1970's Ford motors?
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PHASE 3 GT
Dodge Dakota
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4/15/2002
23:23:40
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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in simple words , CHEV IS CHEAP ! , thats why so many ppl use it 2 drag race !
Dont get me wrong i like sum chevs ,, but id rather push my Ford than drive a Chev or Holden any day
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Fubar512
Dodge Dakota
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4/15/2002
23:48:51
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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Assuming the Ranchero is bone stock, worse case scenario: It will be a close race. Personally, I think you'll beat him by a couple of tenths in the quarter.
I'll bet dimes to donuts that it's a Windsor, anyway. Most Ford fans will tell you that 351 4Vs in 70-71 were all Clevelands. This may be true in Mustangs, but most of the '70 351 4V Torino GTs I've seen had Windsors. Also, he probably has all of a 3.00 or 3.25 rear, and a crappy FMX automatic, to boot.
I saw a restored '70 Torino GT coupe automatic(this one did have a Cleveland), running 15.90s and 80s at a recent Muscle car event.
Having been around a while, I learned early on that the guys to be scared of, were the ones who downplayed their car's performance. The one's who bragged a lot, usually had SLOW cars.
Run him anyway. After all, it's just for fun, right?
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smokem
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/16/2002
01:43:19
| RE: 351cleveland vs 4.7 v8
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I thought this was a dakota forum, or at least a mopar one !!! mopars rule!!!!
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