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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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11/26/2007
19:47:50
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 Subject: RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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Well dude, I'm gonna buy an extra manifold for the passenger side and use that. Here's how it will work. The passenger side manifold will be flipped upside down so the connector going to the cat will be up front and facing upwards. I'm doing this because the inside the manifold, its shaped so that the exhaust flows towards the back of the truck. If its flipped it will flow up into the turbo. Like you said, I will cut a hole one the other end of the manifold (the end thats at the front normally) and run the drivers side pipe into the cut end of the passenger manifold and up into the turbo. Now, here is the kicker, the factory cats will remain in roughly the same locations. The driver side cat will not move at all, but, the passenger side will remain roughly where it is and the turbo outlet will come down and dump into the passenger cat that is in the factory location. From there I will cut out the now void y-pipe and run 3" pipe into a 3rd high flow cat and exit out of the passenger side in front of the rear wheel.
The best part is that this way all of my factory smog crap will remain and I should get pretty decent flow. We'll see, but I'm leaning hard toward this approach. Later dude!
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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11/30/2007
13:27:05
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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All right dude, I'm going to pick up my manifold today after work and I'll start working on it this weekend. I'll take some pictures and show you my progress but you have to give me your e-mail so I can send them to you.
Damn, this means I have to port and polish this manifold too:)
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/03/2007
19:45:07
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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Sorry I haven't been around.
Have you looked to see if the manifold will flip upside down? We could take that extra 4.7 I have and see if the manifolds on it will flip around. Left to right or upside down. Most manifolds wont flip upside down. But who knows.
Are you planning on running the cat in between the one manifold and then into the other?
I was thinking you could copy Duner and leave both manifolds as normal. Run the drivers side outlet right into the passenger side outlet.
Then you cut a hole onto the front passenger manifold on the side and weld on tubing from there to go into the turbo. Then after the turbo, you drop under the truck into one LARGE cat and into your exhaust. That would be the easiest.
Rammer has been tied up the last few weekends. But hopefully soon maybe you can come up to where we live and look at each others stuff. Then maybe go watch the drags afterwards at Speedworld. :)
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/03/2007
20:04:58
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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Ok that had me curious so I went to the garage and took some pictures.
Copy and paste in new browser window to view pictures.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g57/paysonbadboy/Dak/DakExManifolds.jpg
This is why I hadn't looked yet. Everything is stacked around that engine in the garage.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g57/paysonbadboy/Dak/DakExManifolds1.jpg
This is a look at the passenger side outlet with no manifold in place.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g57/paysonbadboy/Dak/DakExManifolds2.jpg
This is the stock passenger side manifold on the head.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g57/paysonbadboy/Dak/DakExManifolds3.jpg
This is if you flip that manifold. The bolt holes don't line up around two of the four outlets.
And my camera went dead, but the drivers side will not mount on the passenger side either way.
So looks like you are stuck keeping them exactly where they go. Which means I can't swap mine and dump out the front of the engine like we did with Rammer's latest turbo set up on his 360.
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2007
11:14:48
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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DUDE! Thats funny because I just came to the realization last night that I can't flip the damn manifold! AAAHHHH! That sucks.
So, I cam up with another idea. Now get this, the manifolds can't be turned but, what I can do, is take a 2'x8"x3/4" plate of steel, place the manifold on top and trace out the exhaust ports, cut the traced exhaust ports and mounting bolts out of the steel plate. With that done, I'm going to place the manifold into the holes and weld it in, then I'm going to cut the rest of the manifold off. From there I will have a basic header flange thing that I can weld individual 1.5" pipes from each port and sort of create my own turbo manifold. It shouldn't be too hard. I just don't know If I want to use .5" or .75". I'm thinking .75" because it will be stronger.
As far as the cats go I'm gonna try and work on this damn manifold and figure that stuff out later.:)
Thanks for the pic too.
Oh yeah, I just got a 2005 4.7L intake manifold with TB still attached and it looks like the map, TPS and IAT sensors are coming with it. $86 shipped I thought was a great deal. I also got and extra oil fill tube so I can route my oil drain back into the engine without having to drill a hole in my oil pan.
Let me know when yous are free.
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2007
11:39:27
|  RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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1hotdak, Graphite,
I've been watcing this from afar now the whole time.
My 01, manual tranny, yadda, yadda, now has 130,500+ miles, and runs better than the day I bought it.
I've really been wanting to do this as well.
There is a website, sorry, I'm at one of my jobs now and get get to the link, but google it.
It has a step by step remote turbo build that simply uses the pipe right after the Y under the truck. He uses a remote oil pump, etc. The think looks great and works well.
That's why I haven't been too fast at true dualing my Dak. I want to use the single pipe off the Y, probably a homebuilt fabbed on that is a little larger.
If and when I do mine, thats the route I'm going to take. No manifold fab, etc.
Have you seen the site I'm talking about? Not Rammers recent build, but the one undwer the truck. It may have even been a V6, but the same will still work great.
Let me know,
Todd
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2007
11:41:56
|  RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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And by the way, the remote set up also allows you to keep your precats where they are.
I already 'lost' my third cat. NO O2 sensors on it, and it always passes inspection.
Todd
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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12/04/2007
16:38:08
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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Right on Todd. I was thinking about the rear mounted set-up but it does require the separate oil pump.
What do you guys think about a remote engine mount? What I'm talking about is where the pipes meet at the Y, T off from there and send it up towards the passenger cat and up in to the turbo in the engine bay. That shouldn't hurt flow too much right? Then you could mount it in a spot similar to Duner's without the special manifold. That will remove the oil pump requirement and protect the turbo from road debris. I'm not sure what part of TX your in but out here in Phoenix there are a crap load of rocks on the road which could easily break something down there.
Good news on another front. I just got my water/air intercooler last night in the mail. Now I need a water pump, cooler, and tank.
I've been thinking of buying some sort of water chiller that I could make my tank out of that way I would always have either cold or cool water when summer comes. You guys think that will work?
Dude I saw that website somewhere but I can't remember. I think it was a red dakota with the rear mount. DakotaUSA.com has a write up of how to do a remote turbo with pictures.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/04/2007
20:44:29
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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Here's Duner's riginal setup http://members.cox.net/duner/Turbo/RTnotTurboPage.html
It looks like that exhaust manifold is totally custom.
But what Rammer did with his first setup was simply take the left side manifold outlet and pipe that right into the right side manifold outlet. Basically your left side blows into the right side.
Then up front on the manifold he cut a hole and welded pipe up to the turbo flange.
That would be the easiest way for you to go without doing a remote.
I've even thought of a remote setup. They say they work, but it don't work as good. And the further you put the turbo from the engine, the more pipe it has to loose temperature. And temperature directly effects pressure in the pipe. High pressure is what drives the turbine. Also having longer section of pipe before the turbo means more area to build up pressure, so it causes more lag.
On the compressor side the only plus is you get more area for the aintake air to cool. But again it has more volume of pipe to build up pressure in, so more lag.
And you got that pesky oil sump pump to install.
Either way, it's going to be way better than stock.
Here is the original 318 turbo Rammer did with the used Deisil turbo and basic setup. Before it blew up :p
http://hackfreehvac.com/Forum/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1141006025
Note how basic the exhaust is. It worked ok. Boost was almost instant. But probably restricting some when you get to the bigger turbo and higher HP.
This thread shows most of the setup on the 360 now
http://hackfreehvac.com/Forum/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1184295237
Note he has lots more fuel and ignition control by this point. :) LOL!
Lots of pictures on there to look at.
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2007
11:00:53
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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Good info. Thanks Graph.
Ok, what about this. What if I did like rammer and have the drivers side routed into the passenger side manifold, and, at the rear end of the passenfer manifold, right after the last exhaust port, I put in a piece of pipe that will route ex. flow up to the turbo. I'm not sure if anyone was able to follow that.:) But if it makes sense, let me know. It is a similar idea to Rammer's only at the rear end of the manifold instead of the middle.
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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12/07/2007
16:57:57
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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Ok dudes, here's an update. I'm going to route the piping from the middle of the passenger side manifold with the crossover like Rammer's from the driver's side. You like?
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/08/2007
00:42:22
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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I'm not sure what you meant on the last one.
We'd almost need to be looking at your truck to see where you could have ROOM for pipes to decide what could work.
But I'd think just cutting a hole into the side of the passenger side one to pop up to the turbo should work. Up front would be better so the turbo could be put away from the A/C evaporator lines, and all that stuff and where you could also reach everything easy as well.
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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12/08/2007
15:36:54
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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Yeah dude, you got it. I've got some 90 degree pipe thats in an oval shape so I can get some more surface area. These manifolds are so small that I could only fit a 1 7/8" round pipe on the side to go up to the turbo. With this oval pipe I can add up to 2 1/4" to get more flow.
Now I have to figure out the exhaust piping and where to mount the intercooler.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/09/2007
18:46:03
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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Yeah. The intercooler has got me curious as well. Rammer has a Ram, and a Cummins intercooler took little effort to shoe horn in there. I think we may have to cut out some plastic in our lower bumper or something. Or just go 100% water to air like Duner did.
I'd like to have a simple intercooler in the lower bumper area just for daily use and use water/methenol injection if using high boost.
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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12/09/2007
20:47:55
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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Well, I'm already stuck with the water/air intercooler because I got that in last week. I still need a pump, reservoir, and lines. My cooler is 10x12x4.5" so I'm hoping to move the battery to the back and put the cooler in it's stead. My new intake manifold should be here next week so I can get some upper RPM hp. I figure while I have this new manifold out I can find the nipple or whatever to add the check valve for the MAP sensor. Duner said his water/meth injection didn't work too well, thats why he went to air/water. The e-bay cooler I got was only $125 shipped so it wasn't too bad, and there were Cobra intercooler water pumps for $80 on there as well. I found a portable travel cooler that will hold 40 degree temps I might use for my intercooler reservoir. It plugs in to your cigarette lighter and holds 2.5 gallons so that should be enough water to keep things cool. Oh yeah, its around $20-$30 shipped.
What are you guys doing next weekend? Let me know and maybe we could go to the track or something.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/09/2007
21:08:36
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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Oh you're replacing the intake manifold? Did you get that cheap? I'd think with the boost, it would make those gains minimal.
We'll have to meet up. I'd like to see the water/air setup you are getting. Maybe next year I'll take the plunge.
Oh yeah. You have an auto tranny right?
I have been curious to see how it shifts under partial boost. I've heard that the MAP sensor feedback effects shifting. So once you have some boost under partial throttle, it can cause our transmissions to downshift and not want to upshift until you really get out of the throttle!
I figured I'd deal with that when I got to it. But looks like you may have yours turbocharged first :p
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2007
00:40:37
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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Yeah the manifold was only $60 shipped and it included an extra MAP, TPS, IAT sensors and throttle body. With all of those extra parts it was kind of hard to pass up.
Thanks for letting me know about the tranny. At least if that happens I won't think it was I that did something wrong:)
Do you think the shift kit would help? I plan on getting one anyways but it would be nice if it could fix that potential problem.
Hopefully by next weekend I will have my manifold put together and you'll have something to see.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
12/10/2007
20:31:46
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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All that for $60, yeah you made out good!
The only shift kit you need is a SuperChips programmer. But be careful running anything higher than the 87 octane setting, as it advances the timing too much.
I mean, at least with the superchips you wont be opeing up your transmission.
You can get that mechanical one that requires changing some sort of shuttle valves or something and some springs in the valve body. And it comes with some resistor wiring trick to modify the torque management request. I wonder if it would work on 2003's though?
Mine chirps the tires with the superchips so I don;t think I'd bother with the shift kit for myself.
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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12/11/2007
10:43:32
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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Cool. I picked up a superchips a couple of months ago. Thats what helped me run the 15.304@87.99 at Firebird a couple weeks ago.
I figured that if I kept the Superchips at 87 and ran 91 I would be ok. I'm only going to run like 6-7psi until I get some real computer control down.
I made the first cuts into my manifold last night. It looks like this part will be pretty easy because the up-pipe to the turbo will be just a straight pipe. Super easy. I just got my welding wire last night so I'll be ready to weld this weekend. Wait, I don't know how to weld! Guess I'll have to figure that out. :)
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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12/13/2007
09:12:02
| RE: Runnin' 13's at the track...
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1hot, Graph,
Heres the link to the remote turbo install I was talking about:
http://www.dakotausa.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=25826
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