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OffRoadRuss
Dodge Dakota
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2/06/2002
12:31:01
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 Subject: ABS kicking-in too early
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Sometimes it feels like my rear ABS kicks in way too early. I know you have to keep constant pressure on the pedal and I am familiar with the unique feedback associated with ABS, but this just plain feels like my brakes go into PANIC mode when I need to apply quick pressure. Now I'm not just talking about slamming them on at 60 miles an hour, but it happens even when I try to stop for a quick yellow light.
I know that there are a lot of factors, but - for example when I stop quickly on a dry, smooth road the ABS will engage every time.
It definitely does not feel like I am at the breaking point traction-wise. In fact, when I first push the brake pedal, it feels great, but once the ABS kicks-in it feels like I'm in a panic stop.
Is there any way to adjust the engagement point or even disconnect the ABS entirely (I haven’t checked the fuses yet, but am hoping that one is dedicated to ABS)
THANKS !
Russ
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Mig-29
Dodge Dakota
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2/06/2002
22:16:02
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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Do you have 4 wheel ABS or the rear wheel only ABS ?
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OffRoadRuss
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2002
09:19:08
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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Message:
yes, it is only rear ABs...
2001 QC 4.7 w 3.55
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OffRoadRuss
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2002
10:02:21
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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oops- also 4x4 & 16" wheels... I guess I need to get my 'sig' down...
thanks for any input, this is a great community !
-r
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CW
GenIII
2/14/2002
19:22:31
|  RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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Message:
One question are you sure it isn't warped rotors? They can have a pulsation effect on the pedal that can mimic the ABS. You say when you jump on it quickly it feels like a ABS panic stop. I have seen rotors that are warped but not really badly shake like all hell on a quick application but are hardly noticable on normal application. I would try gettin my rotors machined. When you get them machined specifically ask them to hand torque the wheels to 100 Ftlbs.
2001 RC 4.7 5sp 9.25" 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm throttle body, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" cold air, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat. Electric fan Convertion, Awaiting HO cams.
Working on adjustable fuel pressure with return.
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OffRoadRuss
Dodge Dakota
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2/21/2002
14:26:20
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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Message:
I definitely have warped rotors, but what I am feeling IS ABS...
I removed the ABS fuse and would NOT consider riding around with out it. The backend locks up and fishtails as soon as I touch the brakes...
I am thinking that the warped rotors in front are giving me diminished stopping power and thus the truck is compensating by relying on the back brakes even more, resulting in the ABS...
I will replace the rotors and see if this helps.
Thanks for everyone’s input...
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CW
GenIII
2/21/2002
20:24:16
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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Message:
If the rear brakes are locking up as soon as you touch them then you have a problem with the rear brakes that the ABS is trying to compensate for. Get the rear brakes looked at to see why they are so grabby.
2001 RC 4.7 5sp 9.25" 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm throttle body, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" cold air, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat. Electric fan Convertion, Awaiting HO cams.
Working on adjustable fuel pressure with return.
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matt
Dodge Dakota
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4/25/2002
16:15:46
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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ever since i installed the performance accessories 3" body lift my abs comes on almost every time i brake, i can barely even stop sometimes. i have taken it in to the dealer a few times already to have it looked at but they cant figure it out, so i completely disabled the abs... anyone know why it might have been coming on???????????
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SuperGewl
Dodge Dakota
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4/25/2002
18:24:50
|  RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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Your problem may have to do with 3" lift. It sounds like sensors for the rear brakes have been misaligned do to the change in the body to rear axel aspect has changed. You may want to look for a poportioning valve, that needs to be realigned do to change in height for the rear brakes. I'm not sure but this may help anyway.
2001 QC SLT PLUS
4.7ltr LSD TT HD
FT4x4
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QUADMAN
GenIII
4/25/2002
23:28:48
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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I'm sorry but that sounds ridiculous to me. I have a body lift on my truck and watched the guys install it. The sensors were never touched or even thought of. Why would that possibly have anything to do with it? One thing that may be possible is you have put a cable in a bind somehow. That would make more sense thean a sensor. Look under the rear of your truck and make sure they used the rear brake cable drop down brackets. The one for the e brake. Do your brakes feel like they are dragging?
OPINIONS ARE LIKE....WELL, YOU KNOW THE REST!!
33X12.50 MTR's, 3" Performance Accessories Body Lift, Procomp Pre-runner Lightbar, Flow 40 with duals, K&N Drop-in, And Many More To Come....
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jmyster
Dodge Dakota
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4/26/2002
00:48:46
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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I also have the 3" lift on my Dak, installed it myself. Never even came close to messing with any cables or the brakes or sensors on the rear end. The lift has nothing to with them.
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bjlindsey
*GenIII*
4/26/2002
01:49:13
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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I (we) undid the bed bolts...took it off and put the spacers and new bolts back on..that's about all.......no where near touching brakes on this 3" body lift
01 QC 4x4 5.9L 3.92 LSD
3" Body Lift, 305/75-R16 XTerrains,
K&N clone, Clear Corners, Carbon Fiber Tails,
www.FreeGasForYou.com
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bjlindsey
*GenIII*
4/26/2002
01:52:28
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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I will admit it's a little slower to stop than it was before, or maybe it's just the new outlook on life over the increased height of the hood that makes it appear so... :) but my Sebring sucks at stopping too. They are not sports cars if they have lift kits.
01 QC 4x4 5.9L 3.92 LSD
3" Body Lift, 305/75-R16 XTerrains,
K&N clone, Clear Corners, Carbon Fiber Tails,
www.FreeGasForYou.com
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matt
Dodge Dakota
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4/26/2002
01:53:23
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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does the perf. acc. kit come with rear brake cable drop down brackets? i dont think mine did, and i dont remember seeing anything in the instructions about that but i'll go over it all again and see if i missed something.
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Dan Gruber
GenIII
4/26/2002
06:47:27
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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Message:
In the PA 3 inch lift, the only place the brakes are touched at all are the lines in the drivers side wheel well.
Matt, if you didn't do anything to your brake lines in the driver's side wheel well, that's very likely your problem. There are brackets provided in the PA kit to relocate your lines, and there instructions provided on how to do it. Not relocating the brake lines could possibly cause the problems you're having.
Dan
2000 CC SLT 4.7 4X4 Auto 3.55 LSD
3 inch Performance Accesories lift & 32 inch BFG MT KM's
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Halo3
GenIII
4/26/2002
07:21:17
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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Message:
One other thing to consider is that a change in tire size may mess up the ABS readings. If you put on a body lift, it is very likely that you went to a larger size tire.
The CAB (Controller Anit-Lock Brakes) is programmed with the Revolutions Per Mile of your stock tires. Having went up to a larger sized tire, your new tires will actually have a lower revolution per mile number than the stockers. So, the ABS sensors are feeding your "speed" into the CAB, and the CAB may be freaking out because the rate of your deceleration is violating the parameters it is programmed with.
Does that make sense? I can think of the "math" behind what it may be doing, but I may not be explaining it in a clear manner.
Semper Fi,
Halo3
'00 Lt. Driftwood 4x4 SLT DQC w/5.9L
http://home.attbi.com/~quadcab
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Dan Gruber
GenIII
4/26/2002
08:03:04
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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Message:
Halo,
Very possible. The only flaw in that I see is based on how I thought ABS works...I'm not a tech and don't know for sure. I thought ABS compared speeds of all the wheels and if they were not all roughly the same, the ABS would kick in. But that doesn't account for the theoretical condition of locking all four wheels at exactly the same moment on ice (that's the flaw in my theory). Also, if all four wheels are the same size (regardless of how large or small), the sensors would simply think the vehicle is moving faster (smaller tires) or slower (larger tires). If the tires are not all the same size, I could very easily see your explanation working.
Make sense? Or am I just exposing my ignorance of ABS?
Dan
2000 CC SLT 4.7 4X4 Auto 3.55 LSD
3 inch Performance Accesories lift & 32 inch BFG MT KM's
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Halo3
GenIII
4/26/2002
08:53:43
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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Message:
Dan: Here is the blurb from the 2000 FSM...
CAB Inputs
The CAB continuously monitors the speed of the differential ring gear by monitoring signals generated by the rear wheel speed sensor. The CAB determines a wheel locking tendency when it recognizes the ring gear is decelerating too rapidly. The CAB monitors the following inputs to determine when a wheel-locking tendency may exist:
- Rear wheel speed sensor (RWSS)
- Brake lamp switch
- Brake warning lamp switch
- Reset switch
- 4WD switch (if equipped)
Now, I know that the CAB can be programmed with the revolutions per mile of a specified tire (most dealers will only program the CAB for tire sizes available from either the dealer or factory for that model year). I also know that this calibration affects the manner in which the ABS system reacts. So I made the deduction that there is some kind of deceleration curve that is "plotted" out by the CAB based on your tire size (revolutions per mile setting). If the values being fed from the RWSS happen to violate that "curve," the CAB would engage the ABS system to curtail any possible wheel-lock condition.
Who knows? Hell, he could have a bad proportioning valve or RWSS for all we know!! And here we are getting into the dynamics & physics behind ABS braking!! hehe
Semper Fi,
Halo3
'00 Lt. Driftwood 4x4 SLT DQC w/5.9L
http://home.attbi.com/~quadcab
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Andy VH
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/26/2002
10:54:17
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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Message:
From the way that Halo describes the ABS function, tire size can definitely affect ABS performance if the controller is indeed working form a pre-set condition. Four wheel ABS systems function like Dan described. The four wheel speed sensors read together by the controller develop the VEHICLE REFERENCE SPEED (VRS). If the controller then sees one (or more) wheels RPM slower than the VRS it activates the ABS function for that wheel until it speeds up to match the VRS. Also keep in kind that almost all ABS systems allow 20% wheel slip (skid) in their programming. That's why an ABS stop will still leave tire marks on the road. I'd say the problem here is in the rear brakes themselves and not with the ABS. The ABS is trying to compensate for a misfunctioning brake system. Doin its job.
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QUADMAN
GenIII
4/26/2002
13:03:45
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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I'm running 33's and the abs has never come on.
OPINIONS ARE LIKE....WELL, YOU KNOW THE REST!!
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matt
Dodge Dakota
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4/26/2002
14:01:28
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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Message:
it started doing it right after the lift was installed, i didnt get 33's for about a month after it was in... abs can suck my c@*k! i hate it.
thanks for the help guys, maybe i'll get it figured out some day.
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djcavin
Dodge Dakota
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4/26/2002
23:27:55
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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forgot to also mention, with the lift make sure that the e brake cables are not "too TIGHT". this small over looked item will sometimes give the same effect that you talked about. keep it shiny side up!!!!!!
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ted
Dodge Dakota
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10/11/2002
10:07:09
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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The abs will kick in on an none emergy stop driving at 15 ml/hr. Ihave already replaced one fender due to abs ($3000.00 of repairs).I feel that I'm getting a run around! It is not warp !rotors
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matt
Dodge Dakota
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10/11/2002
22:58:03
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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I had to get a safety inspection done on my dak because I moved to a different province and before it would pass one of the front hubs needed to be replaced or something... after that was done no more abs problems. I still have no idea why it started doing it right after i put the lift in. i'm just glad it doesn't do it any more.
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Goods
Dodge Dakota
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4/15/2003
15:29:32
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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I have a 2000 quad cab. ABS on all 4. The ABS system kicks on way too early! It appeared to start occurring after a very muddy 4 wheel drive trip. At slow speeds (<20)the tires would lock and squeal. At high speeds the break pedal seems spongy then all of a sudden the ABS kicks on for no reason. The amount of pressure applied to the break padel should not have engaged the ABS.
My wife was on the freeway going 80mph. She hit the breaks hard and nothing happened. Then all of a sudden the front right ABS locked throwing the truck into the right lane. Good thing no cars were to her right.
A brought the truck into the dealer twice. Both times they said nothing was wrong. I took the service manager for a ride. He told me that squealling tires was normal ABS function. I told him "he was nuts." He then said it was my tires. They are factor tires - ya dude. Something is screwing up the ABS function.
I did have the rotors turned at 25,000 miles. The problem did not go away. I also complained about the rotor issue. I'm not a hard breaker - why should the rotors go bad at 25,000 miles. Three other people have had the rotor issue.
I do have the AWD option.
I'm getting ready to write corporate Dodge to start the defect process.
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slopehead
Dodge Dakota
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4/15/2003
16:41:53
| RE: ABS kicking-in too early
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you guys in denial about the ABS on a lift are not considering the fact that as you lift the truck, when the brakes are applied the vehicle dives down and transfers weight from the rear to the front wheels, well when you lift the truck body when you hit the brakes, more weight transfers to the front wheels then before due to what might be called the "pendulum effect" I'd bet the farm that if you removed the lift kit and set it back to stock ride height that the ABS problem in lifted trucks would dissapear. 4 Wheel Drive Diversified in Maumee, Ohio even says so.
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