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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
12/09/2001
23:47:39
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 Subject: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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I don't know if it's been answerd yet but will or can the dealer reprogram the 4 spd 4RFE to be a 5 spd 45RFE?
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Dan Gruber
GenIII
 
12/10/2001
07:47:06
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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There's no 4RFE transmission. If you're talking about the 42RE or 46RE, the answer is no. Those two are used with the 3.9, 5.2, and 5.9 engines and are completely different than the 45RFE used with the 4.7. If you're talking about reprogramming a 45RFE to behave like the new transmission in the 2002(?) Grand Cherokee, I think the answer is still no. I believe the one in the Grand Cherokee has an extra overdrive that the 45RFE in the Dakota 4.7's doesn't have, in addition to the two second gear ratios that the Dakota does have.
Dan
2000 CC SLT 4.7 4X4 Auto 3.55 LSD
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joe
Dodge Dakota
12/10/2001
07:59:31
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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Jeeps web site says that their 5 speed auto is called a 5-45rfe. It has a reverse gear that is similar in size to first gear for extra torque backing up a grade with a trailer. So it would not be possible to give the dak 46re a gear ratio it doesn't have.
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
12/10/2001
13:43:41
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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Sorry guys I meant to say a 45RFE (multi speed in the dakota)to a 5-45RFE (5 spd in the jeeps) I hope this clears it up a bit I apologize
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CW
GenIII
12/10/2001
14:40:17
|  RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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Yes it is possible to update the controller to 5-45rfe specs. I think the 02 is that way out of the factory. Think there is a bulletin for exahust drone at highway speeds and the flash to fix it updates the 45rfe to 5-45rfe programming. All it does is give you a double overdrive trans and lower cruising rpm on the highway.
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD sport plus
Ported throttle body, IAT adjuster, flowmaster cat back, adjusted TPS from .51v to .76v, 4" cold air intake
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CW
GenIII
12/10/2001
14:43:11
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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If you want give me the controller part number I can run it and see what updates can be done, if any.
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD sport plus
Ported throttle body, IAT adjuster, flowmaster cat back, adjusted TPS from .51v to .76v, 4" cold air intake
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
12/10/2001
15:14:10
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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thanks for the help CW, sorry I don't know the controller # (I apologize, I don't even know what a controller # is hehe) but I pick up my brand new Dakota 4x4 4.7L auto w/ 3.92's in 3 days and could use the extra gas mileage. What all would I have to do to make it a 5 spd auto? thanks again for your help
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Dan Gruber
GenIII
12/10/2001
18:56:58
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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The 45RFE can't be updated by a computer flash to be a 5-45RFE unless the computer can magically produce another gear. The Jeep transmission has an extra gear ratio that the 45RFE doesn't have.
45RFE:
1st - 3.00:1
2nd - 1.67:1 (upshift)
2nd - 1.50:1 (downshift)
3rd - 1.00:1
4th - 0.75:1
In Dodges it comes with a 3.55 or 3.92 diff ratio, Jeeps it came with a 3.73.
5-45RFE:
1st - 3.00:1
2nd - 1.67:1 (upshift)
2nd - 1.50:1 (downshift)
3rd - 1.00:1
4th - 0.75:1
5th - 0.67:1
Currently available only in the Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 3.73 diff ratio.
The 5-45RFE may come to the Dodge lineup in the future, but for now it's a Jeep only transmission...sorta like Jeep had exclusive use of the 4.7 and 45RFE combo in 1999, then it spread to the Dak and Durango in 2000, and eventually to the Ram for 2002.
Dan
2000 CC SLT 4.7 4X4 Auto 3.55 LSD
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CW
GenIII
12/10/2001
20:31:05
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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Yes it can magically make another gear in the transmission. If you know how a planeatry gear system works it is easy to do. There are no bands in the 45rfe just clutches that hold and release certain parts of the plaetary gear. giving you different ratios including the double overdrive in the 5-45rfe. There are three planetarys in the 45rfe. All done with the computer telling which solenoids to apply or release in what ever order you want.
I took a little calculating but the 45rfe has the possibility of 8 forward gears and 3 reverse.
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD sport plus
Ported throttle body, IAT adjuster, flowmaster cat back, adjusted TPS from .51v to .76v, 4" cold air intake
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
12/11/2001
08:05:23
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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do you think the dealer will flash it for me? (or will I have to find out for myself?) I was in an automotive college for a couple of years took a tranny class and I understand completely what your talking about, CW
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CW
GenIII
12/11/2001
09:11:14
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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I will take a look today and see if there is even a flash avalible for the 2002.
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD sport plus
Ported throttle body, IAT adjuster, flowmaster cat back, adjusted TPS from .51v to .76v, 4" cold air intake
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
12/11/2001
09:25:30
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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Message:
Thanks CW I appreciate it, if you don't mind me asking what do you do / where do you work
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CW
GenIII
12/11/2001
14:29:42
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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I am a Daimler Chrysler Technician. In Alberta Canada.
I looked today and there are no updates for the 45rfe in 2002 I am pretty sure it already has the 5th gear programing in it.
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD sport plus
Ported throttle body, IAT adjuster, flowmaster cat back, adjusted TPS from .51v to .76v, 4" cold air intake
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
12/11/2001
15:30:32
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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Message:
Ah I thought so, from your earlier post you didn't directly say it but I could see you had access to the info, I was also a DC tech in college I only worked there for about a year, the dealer I worked at also serviced Hyundai's and mitsu's, but anyways, your saying the truck will shift into a "5th" gear? if so why doesn't Dodge advertize? I'm not disagreeing with ya or trying to stir anything up at all that's why I'm posting questions just curious, and thanks for taking the time and looking into that for me and all who is interested.
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Andy VH
Dodge Dakota
12/11/2001
17:26:24
|  RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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Now all we need is someone to come out with an accessory control box that plugs into the controller, and a switch, to control the .75 or .67 overdrive ratio.
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Blckdak
GenIII
12/11/2001
17:45:35
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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Got this from Allpar.com under the 2001-2002 Ram:
45RFE four/five-speed automatic
The new 45RFE has a "fifth" kick-down second gear for better performance and smoother operation. The 45RFE has three planetary gear sets, one overrunning clutch, full electronic control, and an electronically controlled converter clutch. This transmission feels better and more efficient than the older four-speed ones.
Gear Ratios :
1st 3.0
2nd 1.67 - upshift; 1.50 kick-down
3rd 1.00
4th 0.75
Overall Top Gear Ratio 2.66 w/3.55 axle and 2.94 w/3.92 axle
Erin
2000 CC 4x4 Sport
Magnaflow Exhaust, Z-Tube, Runnin AMSOIL
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CW
GenIII
12/11/2001
21:11:15
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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I am just kinda guessing at the moment about the dakotas because I see a flash for shift quality improvment of the 5-4 or 4-5 shift. I have not had the scanner on any of the vehicles to actually check it out and see what gears they are hitting. The shift is very soft and you may or may not notice it.
Blckdak: It will still have the alternate second gear with the fifth gear.
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD sport plus
Ported throttle body, IAT adjuster, flowmaster cat back, adjusted TPS from .51v to .76v, 4" cold air intake
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
12/12/2001
18:52:46
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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It's my understanding form being a former Grand Cherokee owner and a current Dakota owner that the automatic transmissions that have come behind the 4.7 since it came out in all applications are the same transmissions. They just get different programs but mechanically are all the same. Technically the extra overdrive could be programmed back into a 1999 Grand Cherokee or a Dakota but the factory hasn't released the program in all cases. The only reason they gave the extra OD gear to the current Grand Cherokee is that there was a spot at normal crusing that caused owners to complain about a noise. My guess is that the extra gear does nothing but hurt ecomomy and reliability of the trasmission, and therefore they only allowed it where was this 'problem' with the noise. It is a good marketing idea though to be able to advertise a 5-speed automatic, just like it's good for chevy to be able to market the big HP numbers of thier new Trailblazer, even though a regular 4.7 Grand Cherokee still will smoke it in every performance catagory (according to Road and Tracks tests).
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JUSTIN
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/14/2002
12:07:08
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE FLUID CAPACITY OF THE 45RFE IS FOR A STANDARD FLUID AND FILTER CHANGE. THE DEALERSHIP SAYS 4.5 QTS OF ATF + 4
I THINK THAT ITS GOT TO BE MORE THAN THAT. I CHANGED THE FLUID ONCE ALREADY AND IT TOOK ABOUT 5.5 QTS BETWEEN MARKS WHEN COLD ENGINE RUNNING AND IN NETRUAL. I NEVER GOT THE FLUID TO READ BETWEEN THE HOT MARKS LIKE THE OWNERS MANUAL SAID. ENGINE NORMAL OPERATING TEMPERTATURE, NETRUAL BETWEEN HOT MARKS. CAN SOME ONE PLEASE PROVIDE SOME INFORMATION ABOUT THIS. THANKS
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Wxman
Dodge Dakota
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2/14/2002
21:40:11
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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I have a 2k Durango w/ the 4.7 and 45RFE. Each time I have changed the tranny fluid and filters it has taken about 8 qts to refill. I do have the HD group with the external tranny cooler.
Just keep adding a bit at a time until it reads where it is supposed to
Hope this helps.
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Dakota/cali
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/15/2002
11:44:27
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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Very interesting, so if they can program extra gears who is gonna make a program to increse the performance I really dont care about gas mileage since my company pays for the gas!HeHEHeHe sorry I guess I am a little spoiled by the owner!
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JUSTIN
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/15/2002
12:43:02
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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DOES ANYBODY HAVE THE FACTORY MANUAL FOR A 2000 DODGE DAKOTA 4.7 45RFE SPORT/CLUB CAB. I NEED TO KNOW THE FLUID CAPACITY FOR THE 45RFE, FLUID AND FILTER CHANGE. THIS IS WITHOUT AN EXTERNAL TRANS- COOLER. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED SINCE THE DEALER WON'T PROVIDE ME WITH THE INFORMATION, AND THE FACTORY MANUAL COST'S ABOUT $100.00 BUCKS. I BOUGHT THE REPAIR MANUAL FROM DISCOUNT AUTO PARTS
,IT ONLY PROVIDE'S THE 46 TRANSMISSION INFO. THANKS.
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conig
Dodge Dakota
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2/15/2002
20:41:41
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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does the dakota use a different controller for the tranny. I'd want to get mine reflashed but i don't want to knock out my kenne-bell pcm.
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quad47
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/15/2002
23:17:52
|  RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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Hey Justin,I don't know if this will help but my '01 service manual lists the fluid capacity for a 45RFE overhaul fill only, which would be from completely empty. That is showing 28 pints; a 46RE shows 19-20 pints overhaul fill, so I would assume that the 4 qts would not be enough. Sorry I can't give you any hard edged facts on a service fill but they're just not listed.
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JUSTIN
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/22/2002
16:58:19
| TECHNICAL DATA 45RFE TRANS
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THE 45RFE TRANSMISSION CONTAINS 28 PINTS OF FLUID TO FILL WHEN COMPLETLY EMPTY THAT MEANS TORQUE CONVERTER TOO. 1 QUART = 2 PINTS
14 QUARTS OF ATF+4 MOPAR FLUID AT $8.00 A QUART
CALLED SERVICE TEC. DODGE DEALER, HE SAID FOR FILTER AND FLUID CHANGE, 4-4.5 QTS. ADD FLUID ACCORDING TO DIP-STICK READING. IF THIS IS TRUE THAT MEANS THE TRANSMISSION'S TORQUE CONCERTER HOLDS 9.5 QUARTS? NO WAY RIGHT? 1 GALLON = 4 QUARTS UNLESS THE TORQUE CONVERTER HOLDS 2.35 GALLONS. ALSO THERE IS A SPIN ON FILTER AND A FLAT FILTER LOCATED IN THE 45RFE. IT HOLDS .75 QUART.
WATCH OUT FOR THE AUTO PARTS STORES, THIER REFERENCE BOOK WILL GIVE YOU THE WRONG FILTER FOR 2000 DODGE 4.7. I DRAINED THE FLUID AND ENDED UP HAVING TO HITCH A RIDE BACK TO THE STORE ONLY TO FIND OUT 4 DIFFERENT AUTO CHAINS HAD THE WRONG FILTER CALLED OUT. DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND RESEARCH A PROJECT BEFORE YOU START.
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/23/2002
09:03:00
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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Rest assured guys the double over-drive is nothing more then programming. Ford did this to get a double overdrive automatic. If you apply 4th gear clutch pack and 1st gear clutch pack you get a fith gear. There are after market kits that will give the 4l80E tranny 6-8 forward gears. These kits are mostly in the valve body. Sooner or later there will either be a flash upgrade or someone will determine if the 2002 PCM is compatiable with the the 2001's. THe way I see it haveing a "soft" fith gear will only wear out your tranny faster. You will be useing the 1st gear clutch pack more then twice as much as it was origanly designed for. Most trannys 1st gear clutch pack's are not very robust. You have to disengage the over drive to tow anything anyways so you would loose this feature on towing, it would not help off road either. I can see how it might help on the HWY but I think that it might not be all it is thought to be. If they added a fith gear and clutch pack it would be ok but these soft gears realy are not a great idea on a truck designed to work!!!
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Joe C.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/23/2002
12:24:37
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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Guys, I worked at ITP (Indiana Transmission Plant) in Kokomo, Indiana as an engineering intern. The 45RFE stands for Four speed, class 5, rear drive, Fully Electronic. This is automatic the transmission that is mated to the 4.7L as well as the 3.7L engines. The PCM controlls all shift functions of the trans. There are no band clutches in this trans, only planetary gear sets with multi disc clutch packs. By controlling the sequence of which cluches are locked you can obtain various gear ratios. The reason for the soft shifts is because the PCM actually reduces engine power durring the shift sequence for smoother more reliable shifts. The trans only has three forward gears(plus the extra second gear for kick down) as well as an overdrive gear. There are plans in motion for an extra OD gear on the Diesels called the 68RFE but I have not heard further plans. Bottom line, three gears to get to 1:1 then an overdrive.
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scat pack
GenIII
2/23/2002
14:30:42
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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Interesting - sounds like you're pretty familiar with this transmission. Everyone knows the 727 was stronger than the 904, how does the 45RFE stack up against some of mopar's other automitics ? Anyone with any opinions on this ?
2K RC 4.7 4x4
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Joe C.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/23/2002
15:21:43
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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The 42RH(A500) or 42RE is the same unit as the 904 with the difference being the 42RE had electronic shift control, and they both have a New Process OD unit attached. The 45RFE is much stronger than the 904 and the 42series. The design is sturdier by nature, due to the disc clutches instead of bands and much more efficient. The 46RH(A518) and the 46RE are sturdier and can handle a higher torque load, this is the 727 with the New Process OD unit.
The 45RFE has ran through several test 4.7L engines without failing.
A 45RFE can be disassymbled and rebuilt in about 2hrs due to the stacking design of the planetaries and cluch packs. The valve body is controled by solenoid packs and the trans comes with multiple sensors that display input RPM as well as output RPM, trans temp, line pressure, and otheruseful info., these can be displayed to a handheld instrument for troubleshooting.
The reason that the 45RFE is sometimes described as noisey has yet to be determined, however it is believed that it may be due to the use of an external gear pump as opposed to a gerotor pump used in previous modes. In older trans, the pump was also the seal for the front of the case. On the 45RFE there is a sealing bell that is shaped like a speaker baffel and made of stamped metal, this is believed to amplify the noise of the pump and fluid transfer.
Since the trans is electronic it prevents idiots from willfully destroying it.
You can't engage gears unless "safe" speeds have been met. You can shift into reverse while going 80 down the interstate and the trans will go to a false neutral until 3-5mph. Don't try it though, this is also true for park gear. We used to test this function on the test vehicles. Park grabs real hard in reverse at about 5mph.
Any other questions just e-mail me and I can let you know, or find out from friends.
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/23/2002
21:06:19
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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Joe C. I was woundering??? Is ATF+4 full synthetic ,synthetic blend or neither ??????? Could you find out what the spec.s are for ATF+4? Thank's!!!!!!!!!!!
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scat pack
GenIII
2/24/2002
11:06:22
| RE: 4RFE - 45RFE?
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Much thanks to Joe C. ! Excellent informative posts.
2K RC 4.7 4x4
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