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GSMarquis
Dodge Dakota
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4/10/2002
22:49:10

Subject: super charger on a 4.7
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I was reading the posts on the thread marked "blown r/t should i worry" and saw some really interesting stuff....i am waiting for a powerdyne unit for a 4.7, i called them and they say mid-summer this year. When it comes out for my 4.7 and it says they dont require a bypass or larger injectors i should get them anyway and then i should have no problems blowing parts right? i am new at modding modern cars....i have never had a problem with pinging nor have i heard it...is it a obvious sound? and is it serious enough if i heard it to pull over and kill ignition right away? SORRY I AM NEW.



bfs426
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2002
01:00:32

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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I think you should get a bypass(Blow off valve) even if they say you don't need one. It won't hurt anything, and the s/c will last longer. With modest boost the stock injectors should be enough. Modern mopars run very rich at W.O.T.



GSMarquis
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2002
16:34:50

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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Thanks....i was thinking of a super but i dont really want a unrealiable source.....i read about head gaskets blowing and such and cant have a car down for a perios of time that it takes to replace them....so i guess i need to concentrait on a N/A engine.



Duner
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2002
17:42:45

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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Has anyone blown a head gasket on a 4.7?



alex
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2002
17:48:41

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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I don't think anyone here is pushing more boost than you, Duner. You've had it up to 14 psi... did you look at the oil after wards? Any chocolate milkshake action going on?



Duner
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2002
17:58:11

Oil.... should I check it?
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Hahahaha, No Milkshakes! No chocolate or vanilla!



alex
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4/12/2002
18:32:17

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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Well, that's promising, but you did say that the 14psi run scared you. Duner? Scared? Wow, that must have been intense.....

So, the head gaskets must be fairly good on these things. And you've had your heads off. I don't know of any tell-tale signs that indicate gasket failure. I guess they just kind of blow all at once.....

And along the 14psi topic, I talked to Hughes engines and asked them about intake manifolds. They said that they are having real issues with modifying the plastic manifold. It is apparently cast in halves and then press-fit together. After they are pressed together, the whole piece is vibrated ultra-sonically forming an irreversible bond. So, once you open it up, you won't get it back together with any sort of reliability. Hmmmm....

Any more thoughts/sketches on that tunnel ram idea?



Duner
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2002
19:13:01

14 lbs = FUN!
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Hahaha, I like getting scared that way! It's good for testing my reflexes.

Yeah, the intake manifolds don't look like they are very easy to work with. A replacement would surely be better.... other than the possibility that an aluminum intake probably wouldn't stay as cool as the composite does.

I've had lots and lots of thoughts..... I just haven't done anything about it yet.



Crusty
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4/12/2002
22:28:34

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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What other materials could they use on a intake manifold? Cost no option, what do you guys think about some form of ceramic? They definetly dissipate heat well...

2002 4x4
Modification Donations Accepted at Paypal.com

GSMarquis
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2002
23:31:24

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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so i could run 6# on a 4.7 with no chance of blowing gaskets if i run a bypass valve and completly make sure i have no detonation?



Duner
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2002
03:12:58

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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You should be able to run 6# on a 4.7 with no problems at all. The key is in having no detonation issues. That will require some fuel system work. If you are going to increase power by 40% you have to increase fuel delivery by 40%. Any supercharger kit you buy should have that issue addressed or taken care of.



alex
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4/13/2002
10:31:41

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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If cost is no object, I have seen a few top notch CARBON FIBER intake manifolds...... Duner? Listening out there?

Hahahhaaahahhaaa!



Duner
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2002
11:45:30

Yeah! Carbon Fiber!
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Hahaha, yes Alex... I'm definately listening.

I'm just trying to figure out how to integrate the intercooler into the design of the intake manifold to make it all one unit..... and out of carbon fiber? hehehehe

I've got a couple of buddies that are working on building "products" for our trucks out of carbon fiber. Now if I could just interest them into taking on this little project for me.....



alex
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4/13/2002
12:07:45

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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An integral intercooler? So basically take materials cost and design fees, add them together, and the tack two zeros at the end and that's the price, huh.......

Sheesh.

What if the intake manifold had water jackets like the engine block. And then you circulate liqud nitrogen thru the water jackets...... The intake would shatter. Ooops. Hmmmm.... So what can we circulate thru the manifold water passages to make the intake charge as cold as freshly released nitrous? I think I've had too much coffee......



alex
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4/13/2002
12:12:46

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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Duner, Just completely off topic here, but did you install your drive shaft loops before or after the turbo install. I finally picked up those $125 Mickeys.

I just watched an mpeg of a little Datsun doing a crazy burnout and then throwing the driveshaft into the fuel tank. The massive flames shooting out from underneath was just the confidence booster I needed!!

Good thing it's pouring rain here in Atlanta.



Art
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2002
12:20:29

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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You could always do the old dry ice packs
around the intake for a run down the
track,obviously not to practical for everyday
driving,GSmarqui a good rule of thumb for fuel
pressure is whatever you have now for fuel psi
at say 5000 or more you want the same psi
plus another 1 psi for every pound of boost so
say you have 50 psi and you have 6 pounds of
boost ,you would want 56 psi of fuel at 5000
rpm,correct me if Im wrong



Duner
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2002
12:53:50

Hahahaha
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Design fees? hahaha I wish!

I built and installed my driveshaft loops while I was building everything else. I was already under the truck and I was already cutting and welding.....

I didn't really expect to get into the 12s, but I wasn't all that confident about having 4 separate U-joints with a chance of failure either. I didn't want to have to work on my "pole vaulting" form! hehehe

Art - I don't think an extra 6 lbs of fuel pressure is gonna be good enough for 6 lbs of boost. You are increasing your potential hp output by 43%. You have to supply the engine with at least 43% more fuel to keep the air/fuel ratio in check. Not enough fuel means instant detonation!



alex
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2002
13:09:02

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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I still don't understand how we get the two piece/carrier bearing set-up while the R/T's (and automatics) get the single piece shaft?? Guess it's just a matter of inches before that single piece starts to flex......



Duner
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2002
13:22:33

Stupid carrier bearing!
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I think it's a weight/balance issue versus the yolk/bushing in the tailshaft. Once the driveshaft gets to be so long it starts to weigh too much. Any play or out of balance at all and the tailshaft bushing can't control it anymore. They have had problems with this all along on the Dakotas. I really hate the two piece/carrier bearing set-up! That center carrier bearing mount is waayy too soft. It allows the whole center of the driveshaft to wallow around in there.
At least I have managed to tame it's movement to the point that wheel-hop is a thing of the past.



Art
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2002
13:31:44

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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Duner,the last s/c I installed we used that calculation for the fuel pressure,now fuel delivery will mean uping the injectors or a auxillary injector,one problem people have when uping the injectors is the fuel pressure goes down and boom you have the same detonation problem at WOT.Do you know what your fuel pressure is on the 4.7 at say 5000rpm stock?



Duner
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2002
13:43:36

MAF system?
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The fuel pressure stock is between 50 and 55 lbs - depending upon temperature. When stock, the existing fuel pump has no problem whatsoever keeping up regardless of rpms.

Was the last s/c system you installed on a MAF controlled vehicle? You were probably adding fuel pressure just to keep up with injector demand. The Mass Air Flow sensor told the computer that more air was getting to the engine, so it increased the injector pulse width to compensate.

You have to approach things differently for a speed/density system. It has no idea that the engine is getting more air.



alex
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2002
13:43:50

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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Duner... come again? Did you weld the bearing to the cross member or what? And how did that stop wheel hop? Doesn't the axle still rotate up?



Duner
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2002
13:59:14

Easy Fix!
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The center carrier bearing floats in it's housing and is suspended in a rubber mount. This mount is way too flexible and allows the center portion of the driveshaft to move around. This movement underload causes the driveline angle relationship to change and it loads and unloads the driveline. My shifter used to jump up and down if I was towing my trailer up much of an incline. That's what actually caused me to climb under the truck and find the problem. This loading and unloading is also what causes the horrendous wheel-hop that people get from these on occasion.

The mount is basically a square box with the bearing suspended from the 4 corners with rubber ribs. There is about a 1/4" gap around all 4 sides of the bearing to let it "float". I just cut some steel stock to fill in the gaps on 3 of the sides. As crude as it sounds - I just used hose clamps to hold them in. There's no way of getting a clamp in place on the bottom side, so I left it alone. I also added some spring clamps to the front of the springs. I've been wheel-hop free for about 2 years now! That's all I did!

Crawl under your truck and grab the driveshaft. You can physically move it a good ways at the center mount. That's not good for parts!



alex
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4/13/2002
14:28:30

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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I think I'm gonna be sick. Wonder if we could just drive to Hammtramck and kick a few Dodge engineers square in the pants? Quit trying so hard to make this thing a CAR!!

I guess when it quits raining I'm gonna have to get up under there and see what you're talking about, but it makes sense.....

So you've been using spring clamps and sticky tires and that's it, huh? I've got Lakewood cheapies on the truck and here's a history....
1. Bought bars & installed them. Hung too low to do any good, too shiny.

2. Took off bars, 5 coats of flat black Krylon (on chrome surface.... duh) and made shims from steel stock.

3. Installed bars & shims and new lock washers (really cinched em down the first time).

4. Lost all the Krylon off the chrome surface... too shiny again.

5. Passenger side bar loosens itself and starts walking slowly backwards towards rear of truck. Remove both bars, re-install with new lock washers and lots of cussing.



No wheel hop, but that's silly for some damn $38 bars...... I just want to try out my new Mickeys. Maybe in the street in front of my house.... Heeeheeehee



Art
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2002
14:56:35

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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Yes MAF is there another system? :) I remember reading article about the SPD system saying it was superior to MAF in a port fuel-injected engine but doesnt seem that way when it comes to ease of power tuning.50-55 psi thats good for lots of HP,I wonder what the regulator pops off at then? So then what have you done to the fuel system and ignition to compensate for your exhaust mod?



Duner
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2002
15:13:27

RE: super charger on a 4.7
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50-55 psi would be good for plenty of horsepower..... if you have large enough injectors to feed the engine with it. I am currently running an FMU system that simply ups the fuel pressure to compensate for boost. That includes an inline additional fuel pump and the Vortech FMU. I am working towards switching to a computer controlled system with better tuning controls for both fuel and timing. Right now I'm still running with a stock ignition system, which for the 4.7 engine is a digital coil on plug system.



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