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17:42:28 - 04/23/2024
V8 Dakotas
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matt
Dodge Dakota
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11/22/2004
04:47:04
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 Subject: replacement TB butterfly screws?
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I've been porting, chopping runner lenght, and polishing the living snot out of a stock intake and Throttle body, inside and out. I've put over 60 hours into this setup, and its coming out looking wild! anyaways, in this process, I smoothed out and polished the butterflys and the shaft, hence, it is thinner. the torq heads are staked, and were a bit of a pain to turn out, and I ended up damaging one, any thoughts on getting replacements? I was tempted to just get some torq secure em in with threadlocking compound, and grinding them even, BUT I WANTED TO SEE WHAT OTHERS THAT POLISHED THEIR TB HAD DONE ABOUT THESE SCREWS.....
I've polished after choppin it smooth, the top of the TB, recessed the mount bolt holes, replaced the bolts with stainless allen head screws, cut back the intake runners two inches, polished the inside of the intake, ground and polished the exterior of the intake to give it a distict look, ported out the TB to 53mm, and portmatched the intake to the TB, knive edged the divider that sits below the TB, radiused the injector ports, gasket mathced the intake and the heads will get the same treatment before install... I'm preparing all this to set up for supercharging, so any other hints or tricks anyone might know?
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matt
Dodge Dakota
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11/22/2004
04:48:57
|  RE: replacement TB butterfly screws?
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I should say this is on a 01 R/T,
does dodge offer these screws?
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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11/22/2004
14:28:31
| RE: replacement TB butterfly screws?
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You can't buy the butterfly screws direct from Dodge. Might want to ask Sam P www.socaldakota.com if the F&B screws will work in the stock TBs. Also, did you make new butterfly plates? If not, having it ported to 53MM with the stock butterflys ain't going to work too good.
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matt
Dodge Dakota
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11/22/2004
14:35:12
| RE: replacement TB butterfly screws?
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well, I ported it VERY carefully, and removed the idle adjustment plug that dodge put on, closed it down a bit, and it SEEMS to be fine, I'll find out when I install all this. mainly the porting was from the bottom up to the butterfly, I tried to keep that in mind, so I worked slowly, and measured with the plates the entire time.. like i said it LOOKS to be fine... I;ll update once I get the whole thing complete and installed.... SOcaldaks, I'll try em out!
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matt
Dodge Dakota
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11/22/2004
14:35:55
| RE: replacement TB butterfly screws?
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worse comes to worse, I'll only be out the $20 for the ebay TB I bought...
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ch4ngv
Dodge Dakota
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11/22/2004
18:08:17
| RE: replacement TB butterfly screws?
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I have a 2000 4.7 with the 65mm TB. I was thinking of removing the throttle plate and boring it to 68-70mm and getting a new throttle plate made. So i would be looking for new screws as well. There must be somrthing out there other than torx screws.
Is this what places like F&B and Fastman do to offer a TB for early 4.7's?
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matt
Dodge Dakota
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11/22/2004
18:21:40
| RE: replacement TB butterfly screws?
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torq are prolly the best bet, since they hold tighter than a normal screw, ny concern is the staking, as once the throttle shaft is thinned out, it makes the stock screws too long to do any good. I stripped out one's head, loosening it, so I just need to replace one of them... not sure what mods they do for the 4.7, but in all considerations, I'd rather port and polish the sock TB over forking out 400-500 bucks for a chunk of aluminum... especially for as minimal HP and Torque gains that they provide... I'm just frustrated that I scrrewed up a screw, and thats holding my project up now...
I still have to finish polishing the outside of my intake, so i have some time... I'll prolly just yank one off my own TB thats on my truck when I go to install this setup... locktite, and dremel it down smooth..
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Sneezer
Dodge Dakota
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11/23/2004
12:32:28
| RE: replacement TB butterfly screws?
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FWIW, I had similar problems when I did mine for my 318. Bought a junkyard TB. Put it on the truck when I put the M1 on because I had already cleaned it and the stock one was totally gunked up from a blown plenum gasket. Those screws were a bitch to get out. I stripped the head off one, then messed up the shaft when I drilled it out to extract it. Got it shaved and polished, then ripped the head off another screw on my good TB since I was going to swap out the shafts. Managed to salvage that one but it was a PITA. Good gains once it was all put back together. I plan on shaving the shaft and doing a little extra work on it, but I am happy with it so far.
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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11/23/2004
13:09:33
| RE: replacement TB butterfly screws?
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If you are using the stock throttle blades, then you don't have a 53MM TB. The stock blades are only about 50MM.
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Matt Blough
Dodge Dakota
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11/24/2004
02:27:20
| RE: replacement TB butterfly screws?
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Measured em, micrometer (caliper style) mine were 52.8 mm... as I said, I opened up from the bottom, removed the plug for access to the torq screw for idle adjustment backed it out as far as humanly possible... don't get fidgety over technicalities... please... it's not an exact science like nuclear physics, its just a TB, if YOU MUST have the precise measurement,( which both were performed with micrometer and dial caliper indicators... same type used for measuring rotors and brake drums) it was 52.558 mm opening plates were 52.786.. NOt all stock parts are precise, so not all are exactly the same ( i admit this is my first DODGE tb teardown, dont know how much variance they allowed, but mine were damned close to 53, the did look pretty sloppy, one was almost out of round so much I thought I was gonna need to replace it) ... Like i also said, it is a work in progress... if it don't work, I'll figure it out... just a note, Im not trying to getting pissy, I just drove to Miami from ATL, 11 solid hours on my R/T... ugh.. jsut trying to explain what I'm doing to this TB...
yeah, Sneezer, I managed to get mine out fine, jjust stripped out the torq head of one of those lil buggers. they are a PAAIN, but I guess its better than sucking one into the combustion chamber... imagine that as a TSB! I polished and thinned out the shaft, to make it more oval than round, its now about 1/3 the normal thickness... makes the stock screws stick out too far of it now, I'll prolly find some new ones, and just grind em flat.. should help to retain em with it being ground over... I also cropped the top, removed all taht excess aluminum from the top of the TB, and polished it flat and smooth, except the 'hat' screw hole... polished the entire thing...along wiht the entire intake... I'll get pics soon.... it looks pretty cool now, too bad noones gonna see it once its installed.
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Sneezer
Dodge Dakota
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11/24/2004
13:52:55
| RE: replacement TB butterfly screws?
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http://dakotausa.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=15553
This is a writeup I did on mine. I just sort of winged it, since my tools are limited to essentially a dremel. You may have to register at the site to see the pix.
There was one guy who had a pretty quick GenII truck, Mark Kuzia, that modded his TB pretty well. He ground the shaft a couple mm and knife edged the blades. Here is his write up, but the pix have long since dissappeared.
http://www.dakota-truck.net/UPGRADES/TB02/index.html
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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11/27/2004
12:10:27
| RE: replacement TB butterfly screws?
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Matt, if your throttle plates are anywhere near 52.8MM, they have already been replaced by someone else. Stock plates are 50.2mm and factory tolerances are not so sloppy that you might have some that are nearly 53mm.
The plates are intentionally made "out of round" by about .02". This facilitates assembly, allowing the plate to centered in the bore. No air will get by this area, because it is contained within the shaft.
As for the screws, I wouldn't worry about finding torx type. Conventional allen head button screws will work just as well. The correct size is 4mm x 0.7. If any of the threads in the shaft have been ruined, it can usually be salvaged by tapping it out to 8-40 using a roll form thread.
Just one more note - If a screw does come lose, it is highy improbable that it will end up in the "combustion chamber." It will just sit there and roll around at the bottom of the plenum pan until you fish it out.
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matt
Dodge Dakota
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11/27/2004
13:19:20
| RE: replacement TB butterfly screws?
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yeah i was contimplating that they might of been replaced already... as far as the out of round, one was WAY more oval than that of the other. I'm trying to find the name of the person I bought this TB from, so I can ask if those plates were replaced or not. thanks for the info!
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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11/27/2004
14:17:58
| RE: replacement TB butterfly screws?
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I've seen some pictures and descriptions of some very sorry work by people selling their work on ebay.
If you used paypal, you may have some recourse. Of course if you only paid $20, you likely got $20 worth of parts if it came with sensors.
Pictures would be very helpful.
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matt
Dodge Dakota
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11/27/2004
23:00:27
| RE: replacement TB butterfly screws?
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this was sold as a "stock R/T" (no difference? between r/t and 318 tb...) so maybe I wrote wrong info down, but I'm pretty sure of my measurements, at the 52.8 mm.... I'll check it again, it had no sensors, and was (seemed) to be straight off a vehicle... pretty dirty, not too much, but obvious that it'd been used. I'll get some pics together as soon as I can get hold of a camera... I ported and polished it, the porting was the part that seems to have brought the most attention. I didn't port straight through, I left somewhat of a curvature to give the )( shape... but where the plates contact points are, I measured accurately, and if memory serves correct, it was 53 mm or damned close ( forgive me for not having an exact memory, I was doing this while working as a mechanic, and modifying my R/T's suspension, r&r ball joints, installing energy suspension bushings, porting polishing the intake, and working on alot of my 1965 mustang... so I had a ton of $hit working at once.. . I might be wrong, I'll be sure to recheck my measurements... I'll be going to get the replacement screws soon, but as for now, I'm up to my eyeballs in my Mustang, I just towed it back from Miami to N.E. Georgia... 13.5 hours towed by my R/T... what a pain, but the truck handled it magnificently!
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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11/28/2004
08:52:36
| RE: replacement TB butterfly screws?
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"this was sold as a "stock R/T" (no difference? between r/t and 318 tb...) "
That would be correct, assuming that it was stock, there is no difference between the RT tb and any other v8 tb.
" I left somewhat of a curvature to give the ) ( shape... "
That could be your problem when measuring. If you have tapered or ported the bottom to match the manifold and are measuring at that point, it will be larger than the true bore size of your tb. The stock tb has a step that opens up at the bottom and measures about 51.5mm, but no matter how much you open up that area, the bore size will still be 50mm.
It sounds like you may be doing a good job on the porting, but if the throttle plates are out of round or don't match the bore, you may have some problems with your idle.
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