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k_vox
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2003
00:33:10
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 Subject: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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I'm thinking of getting a fresh 318SHR short block from Huhghes Engines sometime around Christmas and building the top half myself (cam,heads,intake,etc...)
The junked or crate 360 is out of the question, dont want all the computer, and the emitions problems that go along with swapping for the 360.
After being spanked by a couple of ricers and having an ex-girlfriend who actually raced/owned one, I totally agree that BIGGER ISNT ALWAYS BETTER. So i wanna stick with the 318.
So can any of you guys (that know your $hit about engines) tell me what it'd take to eat cobras, lightnigs and SS camaros? OR get 350-400 hp from the 318? (will my transmision hold up to that?) I'm sure it would have to be super charged atleast. So will the 318 SHORT BLOCK be a good starting point?
Dont laugh, but I only know how an engine works, not how to build one from the block up. But I have TONS of common sense and can fix damn near anything else on the truck and around the engine, so I'm not a complete dolt. BUT I NEED a short block, and yes I'm planning on paying some other lucky guy to install the thing and get it running... :)
thanks for your replies.
PS. I have a 97, 5spd, 5.2
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Handy Hank
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2003
00:44:56
|  RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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You could build a nice 318 with a cam and all the other stuff and have a nice shot of nitrous.
Or you could add a supercharger to the 318.
Or build a stroker motor out of it.
Or even a supercharged stroker.
These ideas might get you that much power or more. I don't know anything about building it up though. You'll have to see what others think too.
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k_vox
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2003
00:56:10
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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Well, I'm not gonna say I'm on a budget, but I also dont want to spend $10,000 on the friggin engine either.. I know it will be expensive, thats why I'm going to make it a project, besides my current 318 has 125,000 on it and feels and acts like its got atleast another 30,000 left in it. I just NEED to go faster.. One of those piece of $hit harley edition F-150's passed me getting on the freeway a month or so ago.. and there was a chick driving!!!
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rtxpres
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2003
02:40:31
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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Check out mine..
http://www.dragtruk.com/ENTRIES/20KM1FD2KWBP.html
then email me directly if you have any questions as I don't get to this board very often.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2003
11:28:10
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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Yes, it's realistic. Now, do you mean 350 at the wheels, or the crank? Either way, you should look at all the traditional items. The basic 318 shortblock has always had the stones for that much power while retaining reliability. Double chain, true roller timing gear, hotter cam (at least the Magnum RT cam), rework your heads with the usual porting and better valves (or start with Magnum RT heads and have them massaged for even more flow), matching valve springs, roller rockers (take your pick). This is something you could do a bit later. If you use the stockers, you can see if the cam suits you. If you feel the need for more top-end power, get the rollers in a 1.7:1 ratio, instead of the stock 1.6:1 ratio. If it's okay, get 1.6:1. Get your throttle body reworked for greater flow, or get a bigger one. Headers and a good 3 inch single pipe (saves weight, but huge flow) exhaust with hi-flow catalytic converter. Better computer. If, after all this, you're still not happy, put a blower on and an easy 6 lb psi should do. Not sure how much those 5 spds can handle.
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goatroper
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2003
12:14:09
|  RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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k-vox,
Email me at dwworth@yahoo.com and I will tell you how to build a bada$$ 318, I just built one, and you will be very happy. I have all the info on what parts you need and where to get them.
Later, Goatroper
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EBL
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2003
13:05:46
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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The rod/stroke ratio of the 318 would suggest that it likes to spin. Our stock intake is made for low rpm power.
If you spin it fast enough, and pump enough air into it... I suppose you could get any amount of power you want.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2003
15:16:24
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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Rod ratio is 1.85:1, and it loves to run. In Hot Rod's recent Junkyard Jewel article, they made just over 400hp with a 318, and nothing really that radical. Compared to Mopar Performance's crate 380/360 (which actually managed 409hp, the two engines were nearly identical above 3500rpm. Only below 3500 did the smaller 318 give up some power due to a smaller displacement and the inherent loss that goes with it(15-20 in the torque and hp dept). The 318 actually had a milder cam (CompCams XE268) than the 360 did. The little 318 is an awesome engine.
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Kowalski
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2003
15:59:08
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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Actually, it would be a lot easier and cheaper to build a 360 to the performance level you are looking for. Better low end torque by far at similar power levels, which is what you really need to get a heavy truck moving. Peak HP #s are just a small part of the big picture.
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k_vox
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2003
20:37:13
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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alright guys, thanks for all the input so far. And rtxpress, thats a pretty nice truck you have there!
Goatroper I'll shoot you an email..
Yeah I'm in no rush to start tearing apart my daily driver.. I just finished a butt load of front end sus. work, ball joints and lower A arms, swaybar links etc.. Feels really solid now. Next for the suspension will be the Energy Suspension poly bushings set.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2003
20:47:20
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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If you have a 318, you have to buy 360 heads and intake. If you have a 318, and want to build a 360, you have to buy a 360. Which will cost more? The other mods are the same for both engines, so like I said in my previous entry, the 318 is a little softer in lower rpm, that's a given, but will equal a 360 in mid and upper ranges. Giving up 42 cubes, but only roughly 20 lbs torque (give-or take) isn't a bad deal if that's what you're starting with. Keep in mind, I'm prepping a 360 for my Dak, but if I knew when I started what I know now, I'd have just rebuilt my 318 instead.
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MD
Dodge Dakota
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10/24/2003
22:37:10
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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gen1dak is right on the money with his post. Heads reworked, roller cam, forged rods, decent pistons and throttle body reworked, along with computer work and you will be more than pleased.
350 at the crank is possible - BUT, do you live in an "emissions" state - if so, the task becomes much more difficult.
In 1964 I raced a "C" Gas '57 Chev all over Cal - from the strips at 1/2 Moon Bay in the north, to Lions in Long Beach, the Fairgrounds in Pomona, and Irwindale. This was in the early days when Cal had some legendary folks building and tuning engines.
One such guy was Elwin Westbrook - he built the engine in my Chev. It was a 283, bored .030 over to 292, Isky 5 Cycle long duration, roller cam with over 1/2" lift, Corvette heads completely reworked with oversized valves, ported/polished, forged crank, forged pistons, magneto, and the second set of headers Gary Hooker ever built - Gary and I went to the same high school in Ontario, Cal. It was aspirated by 2 750 CFM Carter AFB carbs with a true ram induction system.
All of this power ran through a Schiefer 2800lb clutch and a heavy flywheel to keep the revs up on the little "prick". Shift points through the dramatically beefed up Muncie 4sp was 7800 rpm
That little "gutted" '57 business coupe ran against folks I'm sure you never heard of - such as the beautiful "C" Gas Willy's of Stone, Woods and Cook, and "Big" John Mazmanian.
350hp from a 318??
How about 396hp rear wheel hp on John Mazmanian's dyno in 1964??
Ah, the good old days.
MD
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MD
Dodge Dakota
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10/24/2003
22:54:31
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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k_vox,
One thing, before you start the project, consult with the local "wrench" in your area - someone that others have used and recommend for his engine building/performance knowledge.
In talking with him - or her (look, I'm just trying to be PC - LOL) - develop a strategy regarding what mods you need to make in order to acheive your goal. Remember, one mod almost always requires another mod(s) to give the best results. Some mods can even be counterproductive when used in conjunction with others. You need what headwork, cam, intake and exhaust mods work the best together given other factors - such as your budget and the driveability of the finished product. My '57, for example, was not a daily driver.
Good luck and have fun,
MD
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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10/24/2003
22:57:35
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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Amen, MD. Amen.
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k_vox
Dodge Dakota
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10/26/2003
00:09:15
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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MD
thanks for the info, I'll be driving the truck in Texas. Texas emissions cant be nearly as bad as say, California can it?
I think I'm going to get connected with a local mopar or dakota club after i move and make some contacts that way. Unfortunatly, I didnt get to grow up in a hotrodin' offroadin' ATV ridin, go to the desert or the track on the weekends family.. :( Everyone in my family thinks a vehicals soul purpose is to get you from point A to point B and only work on it if its broken!! BOOO!! Oh well..
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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10/26/2003
08:51:23
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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Texas annuals vary depending on your county. Areas more populated will do more extensive checks, so it'll pay to find out when that becomes an issue.
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Gotothepros
Dodge Dakota
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10/26/2003
09:05:33
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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Skip the locals, unless your fortune enough to live by KRC, Hughes, etc I wouldnt bother with the local boys. Go straight to the experts. Most locals either know all out race (which you do not want) or hopped up carburated engines ( you dont want that either). You have to work within the parameters of an engine controller and the above mentioned can get you there without the guessing and continual parts swaping.
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EBL
Dodge Dakota
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10/26/2003
11:01:25
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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All TX now has emmission screenings. The county where I live just started it up this year. Last year they only made sure the truck would idle.
I was thinking about this thread the last few days and it occured to me that since trucks generally have traction problems to begin with, 20 ft lbs loss may not be so bad. It may keep you from spinning the tires.
Then again, we're rather portly when it comes to weight being accelerated and we could use all the torque we can get...
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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10/26/2003
12:33:08
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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Ouch. So TX has closed the noose? Oh well, last year was the last time we needed to get an inspection sticker there, luckily. Now we're all registered here (MS). So far, we're still not doing sniffers.
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MG42pillbox
Dodge Dakota
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10/27/2003
17:24:52
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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very easy, the block can be left along. Get the KRC LKP. www.krcperformance.com $3999 nuff said
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biggerbetter
Dodge Dakota
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10/27/2003
22:00:48
| RE: 350+ HP frm a built 318 realistic?
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In response to the comment that bigger isnt always better by k_vox, i would have to disagree. i truly believe that if you have the money there is no replacement for displacement. As for evidence of my point, the AEM show car, arguably the fastest "ricer" in the world (not street legal, its a drag car) is still not as fast as that s10 pulling i think a 7.4 quarter mile on dragtruks. i dont know if you guys will agree or not
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