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ARG
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2003
21:35:33
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 Subject: How is M1 better than "beer barrel"?
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Hello all. I have a stock 97 5.2 with the "beer barrel". How exactly is the M1 better? Does it flow better? Create more torque? Run cooler?
Also, can someone post some pics of an M1 so I know what it looks like?
And what does a throttle body spacer do, besides raise the throttle body of the intake manifold?
Many thanks!!
ARG
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FastBlackDak
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2003
21:40:50
| RE: How is M1 better than
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Hey buddy... Check out www.krcperformance.com you will be able to check out all the info you want about the M-1 on there. Very detailed. Lots of pics and a dyno page too.
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STS
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2003
13:21:08
| RE: How is M1 better than
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Just how much power does a beer barrel give?
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FastBlackDak
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2003
13:26:16
| RE: How is M1 better than
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The beer barrel is the stock "dual plane" intake manifold.. The M1 is a single plane, and its better. All of the info for it is on KRC's website. And the TB spacer is a waste of money in my opinion and a lot of other people around here agree as well. Way too many unsatisfied customers for me to try it.
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Aaro
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2003
16:19:44
| RE: How is M1 better than
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You said your truck is stock , then the M1 is not the frist mod you want to do. Try a K&N intake kit and or a new 50 or 52mm throttle body frist,then headers and a cat back. This combo makes tons of low and midrange power and you still shift at about 4900 rpm. If you still fell the need for speed then go with a new computer , M1 , HP valve springs ,1.7 ratio rockers, and shift a 5500+ rpm.
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Joey
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2003
18:12:07
| RE: How is M1 better than
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i have a feeling the TB spacer would work well with the M1 manifold since its a totally different design the the kegger and may help to restore some lost torque after installing the M1.
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FastBlackDak
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2003
19:46:30
| RE: How is M1 better than
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Do a search for TB spacer or somethin and see what people say about it. Lots of unsatisfied people.... But hey.. its your money.
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Brian C
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2003
13:54:27
| RE: How is M1 better than
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If you read about the Tb spacers they claim to produce "a super-atomized mixture, which produces tremendous gains in mid-range power and overall efficiency" The fuel is added and the intake port... not up in the Tb... so what is it mixing ? NOTHING
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DakToBasics
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2003
14:24:42
|  RE: How is M1 better than
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On the M1, a TB spacer will increase performace, though the gains are probably not going to be seen within a useable rpm range. The reason people complain about the spacer is because of the ineffectiveness on stock intakes. The super atomised crap is untrue but it will effectively increase the efficiency of the upgraded intake. Velocity is the key word!!! Your simply lengthening the intake runner. If you make the appropriate mods to build power above 5500 rpm, you should see a slight increase with the spacer, and I do mean slight!!
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Read up
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2003
01:07:15
| RE: How is M1 better than
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Do your home work, Dodge calls the stock manifold on the 5.2, 5.9 a single plane manifold.
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DakToBasics
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2003
09:36:34
|  RE: How is M1 better than
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I believe that is why FBD put dual plane in quotes!
As far as doing his homework... that is what ARG is doing here! What better way to study than to get the answers from people that have already taken the test.
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Read up
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2003
12:13:22
| RE: How is M1 better than
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You need answers from someone who has passed the test ! Lengthing the intake runners does not help on the top end, For proof go to Hughes engines web site, Magnum intake manifold section, thier modified stock intake shortens the runners and in turn that moves the power band to a higher rpm range.
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FastBlackDak
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2003
13:17:16
| RE: How is M1 better than
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The stock beer barrel is a dual plane intake. You can tell that by lookin at it. The M1 is a single plane intake. That too is obvious by looking at it.
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DakToBasics
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2003
16:21:40
| RE: How is M1 better than
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Hey genious...
Hughes says...
"The milling refers to the port runners being cut to a shorter length. This tunes the intake ram length to a higher RPM. The boost in cylinder filling will move up in the RPM range, which more closely matches the power ranges of performance cams, ported cylinder heads and larger throttle bodies."
In laymans terms, this means shortening the runners increases the airs ability to smoothly enter the runners. In a "barrel" type intake the air has to turn a corner to find the intake valve, which is created by the LONG intake runners protruding into the center of the "barrel"!
What Hughes did was do away with the protrusion and smooth out flow. Hence shorter runners increasing high RPM performance. Don't you find it srange that for years people have been puting high rise intakes on thier cars to increase HP.
Reading is a great way to learn about performance. But you have to have a general knowledge of physics to understand how and why thing do what they do. I have said it before, and I'll say it again...
It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!
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Read up
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2003
17:52:35
| RE: How is M1 better than
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Hughes says...
"The milling refers to the port runners being cut to a shorter length. This tunes the intake ram length to a higher RPM. Hence shorter runners increasing high RPM performance. Thanks for proving my point. Even with a high rise intake, the runners are still shorter than a typical duel plane
As for FBD, you are an idiot. "You can tell by looking" I take it that Dodge had no idea when they wrote the description for the stock intake, and describe it as a single plane intake. Do you have a clue what the differnce's between the two are. ?
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FastBlackDak
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2003
17:59:18
| RE: How is M1 better than
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Yes, actually I do have an idea what I am talking about. I'm an idiot huh? Dude, grow up, I've been working on these engines for a very long time. I know them in and out. The beer barrel intake is a DUAL PLANE, the M1 is a SINGLE PLANE. Dual plane refers to how the fuel is delivered. 2 planes "dual plane" vs. the M1 which is 1 plane. You obviously dont knwo what you're talking about. Yes, the modded hughes intakes can hold their own, but, they still have the plenum, and they STILL are dual plane. Arguing over the internet is liek the special olympics dude, no matter if you win or lose you're stil retarted. I'm not here to start anything, I'm just tryin to help this guy out.
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Read up
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2003
18:20:03
| RE: How is M1 better than
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You are sooo wrong, both intakes are single plane intakes. On both intakes the intake runners start at a single plenum, in differn't ways, but still the same plenum. On a duel plane the intake runners start from two seperate plenums in order for each plenum to feed four cylinders each, one is usually below the other. There is usually a plenum divider that in some cases can be removed by milling to give the intake some of the benifits of a single plane. BTW I love your thought process when wrong get flamed.
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FastBlackDak
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2003
18:54:23
| RE: How is M1 better than
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The M1 doesnt have the plenum dude... lol.... Wow... Keep it comin
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Read up
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2003
19:44:12
| RE: How is M1 better than
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Here goes DUDE, The plenum is the open area under the throttle body. Because of its size the plenum of the stock intake has got to be close to 10 times the volume of the plenum on the M1, and if you were to compare the M1 2 bbl and the M1 4 bbl the 4bbl would have more volume to its plenum. Do a little homework call Hughes or KRC on monday and ask them. The worst part of this is that you are giving advise to people when you really have no business doing so. BTW Dodge Service Manual states: " The aluminum intake manifold is a single plane design with equal length runners." This is in the Service Manual twice 5.2L Engine 9-101 and 5.9L Engine 9-140 look it up.
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