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flame red dak
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
22:13:29
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 Subject: M-1 QUANDERIES PLEASE HELP!
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I have posted a similar question to this before but I really didn't get quite the answer I was looking for, so please help. I have a 2002 R/T and I am thinking about an M-1 2 barrel for it. I have read a few posts on here about it, but the varing results (some saying they loved it and some saying the low end that was lost wasn't worth it) have got me questioning whether or not I want to get it or not. My truck will mainly see street use and occasional track time. Now I know that the M-1 reacts more (common sense) to heads and cam change, but I don't plan on diving in that deep, but I am looking for some more power. Anyway, my questions are: What is the rpm range of the M-1? If I was to put 1.7 roller rockers, MSD 6a box on along with my flowmaster and homemade intake will I see a gain in performance? Lost low end? Or are more mods needed before I plan the M-1? I do also plan to hack 3rd cat when I find a way or someone to do it for me. Mainly I need to know if the M-1 is streetable with no lost bottom end , and if it would be practical for long trips where gas mileage and highway power is needed. I appreciate any responses and sorry for the long post.
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
22:30:56
| RE: M-1 QUANDERIES PLEASE HELP!
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IMO it's definitly worth it. Especially if you can get a turtle for it. You woudl need a ported TB and some headers to really compliment it, but it will work nicely with little to no low end loss. Gas mileage will increase slightly, but not enough to warrant the purchase on gas mileage alone. The rockers will be good and help with the low end.
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flame red dak
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2002
22:44:05
| RE: M-1 QUANDERIES PLEASE HELP!
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Thank you for the info HSKR. Ya I was thinking about a turtle but I've heard good and bad things of it also. Some claiming it does nothing and others saying it does. I think this is just coming from seat of the pants feeling. Only way to tell is dyno I guess, anyone dyno tested it? Thank you again
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2002
00:13:35
| RE: M-1 QUANDERIES PLEASE HELP!
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The small turtle really doesn't do much. You need the large or XL turtle to notice any difference.
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rtxpres
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2002
02:10:55
| RE: M-1 QUANDERIES PLEASE HELP!
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Flame Red Dak...according to the MP Magnum Engines book, 2nd edition, the power band for the stock intake is idle-5500; the M1 2bbl is 2000-5800. If you can't rev that high you won't be taking full advantage of the M1. I don't think the performance gain down low would be worth the cost.
As for lost low end torque.....well, here's my experience. I changed the cam at the same time I installed the M1 and lost only .03 sec in 60 foot time. That's 3 hundredths of a second (which you can't feel) and from there on out it's quicker and faster. And that's with a 318 that doesn't have near the torque of a 360. What you would notice is the lack of that 3000 rpm surge of the stock intake, even though you're accelerating quicker. However, I repeat, if you don't have a cam with the ability to make power above 5500, the M1's cost just isn't worth it. (mine runs best shifted at 5900 and my cam also has a 2000-5800 power band) BTW, no loss in fuel mileage, still 20+ highway at 70 mph. HTH.
1500 drag strip runs, best so far - 13.74 @ 99.88
RayB
http://www.dragtruk.com/ENTRIES/20KM1FD2KWBP.html
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2002
12:22:42
| RE: M-1 QUANDERIES PLEASE HELP!
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You don't need a cam to make the 2bbl M1 work. And unless you change the heads, the cam won't be as effective. It all works together. You can't just change one part and expect a huge improvement. My M1 worked just fine with the stock cam on my R/T. As you posted the power band for both beer barrel and 2bbl M1, you see that the beer barrel is up to 5500 RPM and the 2bbl is 5800RPM. 300RpM isn't that big of a difference, and the stock kegger won't make much power past 5000RPM. 5500RPM shifts with the M1 on a 360 is about all you woudl need, but if you don't have a performance PCM you can't shift higher than 5300RPM even manually. You will still see benifits from the M1 without the hgher shift points. And my truck with the M1 not so much surged after 3000RPM, but you difinitly felt a difference there since that is where the M1 starts passing the beer barrel for performance.
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2002
12:23:58
| RE: M-1 QUANDERIES PLEASE HELP!
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You don't need a cam to make the 2bbl M1 work. And unless you change the heads, the cam won't be as effective. It all works together. You can't just change one part and expect a huge improvement. My M1 worked just fine with the stock cam on my R/T. As you posted the power band for both beer barrel and 2bbl M1, you see that the beer barrel is up to 5500 RPM and the 2bbl is 5800RPM. 300RpM isn't that big of a difference, and the stock kegger won't make much power past 5000RPM. 5500RPM shifts with the M1 on a 360 is about all you woudl need, but if you don't have a performance PCM you can't shift higher than 5300RPM even manually. You will still see benifits from the M1 without the hgher shift points. And my truck with the M1 not so much surged after 3000RPM, but you difinitly felt a difference there since that is where the M1 starts passing the beer barrel for performance, and unlike the beer barrel, it never fell on it's face past 5000RPM like the beer barrel did.
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Anthony G
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2002
12:32:34
| RE: M-1 QUANDERIES PLEASE HELP!
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http://www.hughesengines.com/www/hughesengines/general/tech_articles/magnum_tech.asp
Read the part about the intake near the end.
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2002
14:02:27
| RE: M-1 QUANDERIES PLEASE HELP!
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Hughes is talking about the Mopar 4bbl M1 manifold. Not the 2bbl M1. Have you not figured this out yet from the other thread you are trying to dispute with me in?? The 2bbl M1 has about 8" long runners and was made specifically for the hydralic cam fuel injected Magnum engine 92-present. Maybe you shoudl read up more on the 2BBL M1, and not base all your info off the 4bbl M1. They are two differnt manifolds. Maybe you shoudl read the info on KRC's website. http://www.krcperformance.com/newcontent/m1manifold.html which talks about the 2bbl M1 not the 4bbl M1.
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big_torque
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2002
14:12:36
| RE: M-1 QUANDERIES PLEASE HELP!
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http://users.gibralter.net/mhoover/Track_Page.htm
Heres a link with a bunch of mods (including the M1 and 1.7 rockers) and dyno #s. I love his site and the truck.
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Anthony G
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2002
16:16:18
| RE: M-1 QUANDERIES PLEASE HELP!
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http://users.gibralter.net/mhoover/Track_Page.htm
This site shows RPMS from 3800+ (7hp 9tq)where the M1 should start performing better but really doesn't if it wasn't for the 1.7RR which increase lift for more power that is made above 3k!
Stock Intake 16"
Stage 1 14"
Stage 2 12"
M1 2bbl 8" long runners still seems too short to me if it's correct length.
M1 4bbl 4.75" long runners.
I'm just giving information for other people out there, You have already made up your mind HSKR.
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dakotart92
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2002
17:39:35
| RE: M-1 QUANDERIES PLEASE HELP!
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rtxpres,
What year A-Body did your rear end come out of? What years are possible to use? If you could e-mail me an overview of what I am looking at to swap in an 8-3/4 into a genII at dakotart92@yahoo.com?
Thanks,
Shaun
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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12/07/2002
00:30:59
| RE: M-1 QUANDERIES PLEASE HELP!
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I'd post my dyno numbers, but Anthony woudl tear them apart as well. at 5000RPM I was making 40 more RWHP and 50 more RWTQ. It really came on at about 3500RPM, but the numbers were pretty much identicle before that. Did you read the KRC info on the 2bbl M1 I posted Anthony, or did you just ignore it because you are too conviced the beer barrel is the best in the world??
I'm just informing people, You also obviously already have YOUR mind made up Anthonty.
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