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05:12:39 - 04/20/2024
V8 Dakotas
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Noggin
Dodge Dakota
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11/13/2002
16:53:43
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 Subject: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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I recently had my car stolen (2000 Nissan Sentra GXE) and was looking for something to replace it. What it came down to was a 2001 DECKED OUT ALL OPTIONS Dakota with the 5.9 engine and a 2003 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec-V.
The guy who was selling the Dakota is a middle aged man (mid 40's), took very good care of the truck and didn't drive fast/race. He was moving to Africa for his job and owed about $19000 on the truck.
I ended up getting the Spec-V, and my father offered him $15000 for the truck. He said that if no one else bought it for more than that, he'd sell it to him. His wife misunderstood though, and every time someone tried to buy it for the $19000 asking price, she told them it was already sold, so my father got it for $14000 (the $1000 price difference was because the seller backed into the truck and damaged the tailgate.)
I decided not to buy the truck because I loved my GXE so much and wanted another Sentra, so I went for higher performance model.
Here's my question: How fast in the quarter mile is the 5.9 Dakota 4-door?
My father jokingly said, "wanna race?" and I'm curious as to how fast this truck really is. Keep in mind, the only aftermarket work on this truck is that it has been dropped.
Lastly, anyone looking for a set of stock low mileage tires? (no wheels)
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Noggin
Dodge Dakota
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11/13/2002
17:01:05
|  RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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Oh yeah, just wanted to come back and say that I'm not 100% sure its the 5.9 engine. I looked at the window sticker and I'm pretty sure it said 260 HP, and I also think its an auto transmission.
Being only 260 HP and as heavy as it is, I don't think he'd be any faster than a Spec-V.
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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11/13/2002
17:36:44
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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Funny, I was just looking into the SE-R for the wife ... 6 speed, 175hp, 180 ft-lb, ~2700lbs ... that's 15.4 lb/hp
if its a 4-door dakota, and it said 260hp on the window, its likely the 5.9L .. its actually rated at 240 hp (someone correct me if I'm wrong). and 335 TQ?? I'm not sure on that one. at about 4400lbs ... that's 18 lb/hp
anyways, you do the math, but from any stats I've seen on the net, the SE-R is at about 15.5@90mph in the 1/4 ... if the Quad cab has the 3.92 gears he'll probably run 15.8@87mph or so (?? anyone with one have a better estimate). You should be able to take him .. BUT if he wanted to invest $1000 or so worth of bragging rights parts then you should watch out.
Anyone else have more info? (I know I'd take you ;) )
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kota on 20s
GenIII
11/13/2002
17:38:24
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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probably high 15's. really depends on gearing, driver, altitude, temp, and a lot of other factors.
just curious, what is the average 1/4 times of the sentra SE-R spec V?
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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11/13/2002
17:48:32
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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kota: 15.5 is the number I kept pulling off websites
Noggin: how do you like the SE-R?
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Noggin
Dodge Dakota
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11/13/2002
19:01:07
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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Thanks for the info guys :)
Canucker: I LOVE the car!!! Got bored one night and made a web page for the GXE, updated it when I got the Spec-V. http://www2.msstate.edu/~hgm3 If she wants a fun sporty car to drive that gets somewhat respectable gas mileage (mid 20's as a low estimate) a Spec-V is DAMN good bang-for-the-buck. If interested, I got mine for $17200 over 60 mos with 4.9% financing with no options. Only option I'd consider is the ABS package. The "Audio Fanatic" package is ridiculous (though I just got the 6 disc changer off EBay for $128) but having the fold down seats is nice but not worth the $700ish. And I hate sunroofs so I didn't want that one either.
About 15.5 is "good" with some people claiming as low as 15.3 stock (and I think I saw a time slip with a 15.099 with just a header). I'm only at 1500 miles right now, so just barely broken in and havn't raced it... but I have got on it a bit. Spins the tires easy all the way through first and most of the way through second. Bad for racing, good for ego :)
There are two SE-R's: SE-R and SE-R Spec-V
Nissan rates the Spec-V as 175 HP and the SE-R as 165 HP (at the crank of course) both powered by a QR25DE (I think thats right), 2.5 Liter 4-cyl. The difference between the two is the SE-R has 16" wheels and the Spec-V has 17" wheels, Helical LSD, stiffer suspension, and different exhaust (which is where they say the 10 HP difference comes from). Oh yeah, and a 6spd trans instead of a 5spd.
The speed difference between the SE-R and the V is kinda minimal (I think) because the weight of the HLSD offsets the increased HP. However, if the cost difference isn't a determining factor the "how come you got the SE-R and not the Spec-V???" questions are.
And if my dad wants to spend $1000 on aftermarket parts, I'll put in a good $1000 too :) I don't know what that'll do for a Dakota, but I think I could come up with a CAI, headers, and exhaust... especially if I go with used parts. That and a friend of mine has a nitrous kit that'd fit my car.... but I'm reluctant to use that stuff. I'd rather wait for a supercharger to come out for this car. At any rate, I'm gonna wait until after warranty runs out to mod the car.
Here's another HP question: Taking Nissan as an example, the SE-R is 165 HP and the Spec-V is 175. They account for this difference by the exhaust... but when measuring at the crank, would the exhaust really cause a difference? I figure they'd take the exhaust off; but I suppose that would/could cause backpressure problems. I aint a engine expert though.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
11/13/2002
20:22:18
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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im not into 4 cylender imports (unless its a WRX), but i think a exhaust only gives like 2-3 hp max. when i put a cat back on my V8 dakota, i didnt notice anything.
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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11/14/2002
10:53:07
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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Noggin, yeah I know all about the SE-R and the SE-R Spec V.
From what I can tell, that engine is maxed out as is. Any changes and you'll likely only see a loss in hp (short of forced induction or NOx). The intake is variable geometry, the valves are contiuously variable timed, the exhaust is tuned (and yes you can get good gains from exhaust if its tuned right. And yes for a true BHP reading on the crank the full exhaust system is in place .. so are all the accessories and such).
Do NOT touch the exhaust on that what ever you do ... maaaayybe a header and that's it. The exhaust is tuned for the extra hp and has a variable volume muffler. If you touch it, you'll lose hp .. guaranteed.
for $1000 on a 5.9L you could probably get another 50hp (PCM flash, M1 intake, TB).
a CAI on your car might get you 2-3hp. Like I said, short of forced induction, I wouldn't bother though. Those new engines are very well engineered. Dollar for dollar on mods your old man will whoop you.
The Spec-V is undoubtabley a good bang for the buck though! :) I just wish it was AWD turbo .. that's what I really want the wife to get. But the only thing out there really is the WRX and my buddy already has one, so that'd be cheesy. The EVO is coming to the US this spring, but I don't think it'll be coming here (Canada) anytime soon. Other than that, there's the Audi TT and A4 1.8T quattros but they're kinda wimpy in stock form (torque is electronically limited so it doesn't break the CVT).
How do you like the 6 speed? Did you test a 5 speed? I hear 1st gear is waaay too low with the 6 speed.
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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11/14/2002
11:00:19
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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PS Nice website.
A few more reservations I have about the SE-R though:
the gauges .. orange on titanium? that's not enough contrast for me .. give me white on black or black on white anyday over that.
Also, how do you like the suspension? The rear isn't independent and I'm wondering if you notice it at all. Does it break loose on gravel or wet/bumpy road? I'd rather have IRS, but I'm sure that's how they keep the price of the car down, using the solid rear
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R/Truck
Dodge Dakota
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11/14/2002
13:59:36
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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I have no doubt that a 5.9L quad cab can run a high 14, there was one at Houston Race Way Park that ran a 15.1 back in July (high 90s). He had basic bolt on modifications and factory tires. He is also on this board.
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todd
Dodge Dakota
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11/14/2002
16:31:20
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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5.9 245hp
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Noggin
Dodge Dakota
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11/14/2002
17:25:20
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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There are some mods that can be done to tune the engine. Some people are removing their knock sensors, and I'm not all sure what else (or exactly what that does to be perfectly honest) and there is at least one company making cams for this car.
People have also been changing to a Stromong exhaust and a few other brands and getting a 1 or 2 hp gain, which is minimal. They really do that mostly for the sound though. I havn't personally heard those aftermarket exhausts, but I can tell you I'm pretty sure they don't come off sounding like fart-can Honda Civics.
Getting the headers (most tend to lean for Hotshot) along with the exhaust gives another 12ish from what they claim, and I think they have dyno's to back them up, though I havn't looked at them. I also assume thats at the wheels (and being generous here) along with the 2 hp (which might be higher along with the header) is maybe a 10% increase. This car is light and doesn't take much to bump it up.
On top of that, you can add a few HP for having a K&N drop in air filter put in, and thats only $45 from www.courtesynissan.com, and the CAI should be a few more for that. Again, being generous, thats 15 - 20 extra HP at the wheels, good for over 10%. With these three bolt ons, these guys are breaking into high 14's.
Against your V8 though, I think you've just got much more to work with in the long run.
As for the 5 spd, dunno, didn't drive one. My GXE was a 5 speed and I loved it, but its engine was a 1.8 instead of a 2.5. And I was upset when I heard of the Spec-V since it was coming with a 6spd. I was just mad cause it had an extra gear, at the time I didn't care about performance. I just like to shift :)
The 2002 V's did have a very short 1st gear, I think at redline it was just a little over 20 MPH, and second wasn't much better. However, the 2003 tranny has taller 1st and 2nd gears, so it'll wind out higher, and also wheel hop isn't a problem. Though if I want to, it'll spin all of first, and almost all of second still easily.
As for suspension, I don't know a whole lot about that either. By "break loose" I tend to think of putting more power to the wheels than the tires can handle without losing traction... and since its a front wheel drive car I don't have that problem on the rear wheels :)
I han't driven many "performance" cars. Just this one for 1500 miles, and my brother-in-law's 98 Mustang GT for about 100 miles. Didn't even get on it. So I'm not a good person to draw out suspension comments from.
http://www.nissannews.com/multimedia/events/colour/23world_challenge_se-r.jpg
That car has a QR25 engine (which is what the Spec-V has stock) built by Sunbelt Racing which produces 258 HP and 221 lb-ft at the crank. It of course is not something you'd want to put on the street as it has I think 11:1 compression and runs on 104 octane fuel. This is Naturally Aspirated (sp) so no turbo, nitrous, or super charger. Sadly though, it didn't do well at the track. The following paragraph I'm quoting from http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39791
The car has been to one race. The Road Atlanta race. It was only in qualifying in that race though. In practice a faulty o-ring sealing the fuel pump allowed fuel to leak and be ignited by the exhaust causing a small fire where the driver had to pull off and bail out of the car. The fire was put out with fire extinguishers and only caused a small amount of damage. During qualifying the car was able to turn about 5 laps before the oil pressure gauge began reading 0 psi and they had to stop. The next day during qualifying the car began to loose power and the car was pulled in. There they determined the car had overheated to the point of blowing the head gasket and filling the cylinder heads full of coolant. The engine management software recorded a max temp of 260F. The called it a weekend after that. They qualified 42nd and did not get to race in the main event.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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11/14/2002
17:36:17
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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I'm thinking of getting a SRT-4 when my Dakota sells. I have no doubt that one you get used to driving one at a good track like HRP the SRT-4 will run high 13's pure stock. Magazine tests have already gotten a 14 flat, and SSC got a 14.1 at 1200 feet slippery track admitting they really don't know how to launch. So I've gotten one price estimate of $18,500 but it is not in the ordering computer yet so they won't even take a deposit until then. They also say they haven't taken anybody else's order so it will be first come first served when they are in the computer. So traction on the SRT-4 is a huge problem but with some slicks I bet it will be a mid 13 sec car, and then they already have 3 stages of kits from Mopar Performance for the thing, the stage 2 makes 270 hp and the stage 3 makes 300 hp. Even stock though you can't beat that bang for the buck.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
11/14/2002
17:38:56
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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do neons still have a headgasket problem?
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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11/14/2002
18:11:25
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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Hey, thanks for the write up Noggin,
FYI: by removing the knock sensors (something I really, really wouldn't recommend), it allows the computer to advance the timing a little more and suck a little more hp out of it. The downside, it might advance it a little too much and cause knock, which is devistating to the engine (esp. such high compression ones). Basically, with the knock sensors, the computer will advance the timing as far as possible, until it senses a knock starting, then it backs it off 3-4 degrees. By removing the sensor the computer will advance it that further 3-4 degrees or so .. BUT with most engines, peak power is found with the timing advanced to 2-3 degrees before knock begins. So, IMHO, its not really worth the risk, but hey, if guys are doin' it and they're not cratering their pistons, then more power to 'em.
Also FYI, on the 'breaking loose' of the rear, what I meant is, does it feel like you're dragging the back end all over the place? does it oversteer (i.e. if you corner really hard and abruptly will the back end start sliding before the front)? You'd notice it most if you were going over a bumpy surface (like gravel washboard) and then you try to turn fast.
Also Noggin, do you know of any good websites for aftermarket/performance/whatever for the Spec-V (kinda like this one, but for the Nissan)? I'm assuming you do.
Hersbird: oh yeah! I keep overlooking the SRT-4 we'll have to look more into that too. Thanks.
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Noggin
Dodge Dakota
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11/14/2002
18:28:16
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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The SRT-4 is the S/C Neon right? Several people with sentra's are wishing they had one of those :) But I'm still curious how the QR25 is gonna hold up with a S/C on it. At least one is in development, maybe two... also got a couple turbos comin for them but I'd rather a S/C, less heat problems.
I havn't driven much on wet pavement or dirt so I'm not sure about that. I've seen a few people complain of understeer though I think...
I havn't done much for aftermarket parts but try these:
http://www.mossyperformance.com/
http://www.southwestautoworks.com/
http://www.courtesy-nissan.com/
For just general information check out the forums at
http://www.b15sentra.net/
Being a domestic truck guy I assume you look at my import and first impression is "ricer" but thats not the case at the forum there, though a few amount of them have attitude problems.
After having the Spec-V for a while I kinda regret not having a 01 SE model. Those 2.0 engines can take a HELL of a lot of horse power with a good turbo kit! Over 400 if I'm not mistaken :) Got a video on my desktop of a early 90's turboed 2.0 sentra spanking a 2003 Cobra 'stang from a roll. From a stop the Mustang dominated, but the setra also blew a spark plug tip through the turbine.
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dr0p0ff
DakotaEnthusiast
11/15/2002
10:33:26
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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see, i thought it was SC! the magazine article i just read yesterday that it was an intercooled turbo. article confused the ever lovin crap outta me
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
11:36:46
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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Funny .. I thought the SRT-4 was turbo ... This is the first I've heard of ppl thinking its S/C ... hmmmm .. now I just don't know.
Noggin: A person can make anything 'ricey' .. I've even seen a few .. well a lot .. of Dakotas that were 'riced out'. I don't really care where the vehicle was designed and built cause none of them are designed here, so they're all imports really. Although GM, and DC, have plants here where things get built (I don't think Ford has any plants here though).
I look for well engineered vehicles with features I like. In the case of the Dakota...a well engineered V8 in a small truck. IMHO European cars tend to be the best from an engineering standpoint .. but they're typically the most expensive.
Also, be careful of S/Cing or turboing that car .. the compression ratio is 9.5:1 or higher isn't it??? you'd have to drop that to at least 9.0:1 or less to successfully put forced induction on it (and, just personal preference, I'd opt for a turbo .. but I doubt there's much room under the hood of that car).
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sks
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
12:21:11
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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Your Nissan looks gay. Are you black?
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Noggin
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
14:45:11
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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Ok I just looked at a couple sources that say the SRT is a turbo and not a SC, so I'd say its safe to assume it is a turbo.
As for the reason I'd go with supercharger over a turbo is that from what I know they last longer and have better response since they are belt driven and don't have to spool up and they don't burn up. I've got a friend who opened his hood and says his turbo was glowing red. I don't want that in my car.
There's a guy in Louisiana named Travis that has a small business and does nothing but works on Nissans. I'd just hand the car and cash over to him and say, "have at it." He's held in high regards by members of the B15 Forums, and supposedly knows his stuff. I'm sure he knows more about these engines than I do, and he'd know what needs to be done to mod it safely.
I do want to say the compression is 9.5:1 on this car, but I'm not certain of it. I think I ran across that number during the discussion of the Sunbelt motor. I am curious though as to why you'd chose a turbo? I want to say they are cheaper, but don't they almost require a replacement within about 3 or 4 years? I hope to keep this one for at least 200k miles, if it lasts that long.
SKS: I wasn't aware that a requirement to owning a "gay" car is that you have to be black. You did not succeed in offending me, but you may have succeeded in offended your fellow forum members.
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
15:10:45
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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we usually ignore guys like sks.
As for the Turbo vs Super debate, its one that has raged on for days, sometimes weeks at this forum ... check this link Turbo Debate for the full writeup.
my preference is because:
1) less parasitic hp loss
2) flat boost curve with proper boost controllers
3) adjustable boost from inside the cab (again with proper boost controllers)
4) more junkyard turbos out there
as far as the turbos not lasting longer and burning up etc etc ... if you treat them right, they should outlast the engine. i.e. be sure to let it cool properly after bagging it at WOT for the last three runs down the track in a row. change the oil frequently, etc. etc.
True, they will sometimes heat up and glow read, but as long as you keep an eye on the exhaust gas temp you'll be fine.
As far as price .. from what I can tell they are pretty close, and I'd even go so far to say turbos are more expensive when all is said and done. Simply because you have to get new exhaust manifolds, you typically get an intercooler with them, you could go nuts with an expensive wastegate and boost controller and blow-off valve. BUT, if you get a junkyard/rebuilt turbo, intercooler and wastegate, then you're one step ahead of S/C's.
It all really comes down to personal preference though I think.
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
15:14:00
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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oh, and I forgot to say that turbo lag is hardly an issue these days ... unless of course you get a turbo that is grossly oversized for your engine. Usually only hardcore racers do this cause that'll give 'em the high RPM flow rates and insane boost they need (25 or more psi)
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Noggin
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2002
22:52:45
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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After reading that thread it appears that there really isn't a straightforward "best" out of the turbo and supercharger. At any rate, it'll be a couple years before I do anything with the engine so that I won't have to worry about killing my warranty. The 2.5 engine is still young and no one really knows exactly what its fully capable of yet. Hopefully by the time I'm ready, others will have already done the experiments.
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googles
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2002
12:27:15
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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I just traded in my 2002 Nissan spec V on a 2002 Dakota R/T. I hate to say it but the Nissan was junk. I hope they have the kinks worked out on the 03 version. I had a rebuilt engine, transmission problems (couldn't get it in reverse), electrical probelms, and really really bad paint with only 3000 miles on it. The r/t is a great ride and I never regreted trading it in. The hightest hp rating yet I have seen on a spec v (fwhp) is 169.
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Noggin
Dodge Dakota
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11/17/2002
18:04:05
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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Yeah I hope the fixed the problems too. So far, I don't have a single paint chip at 1600 miles and I've been over the car VERY closely at least 4 times. Could just be me though, and the transmission/engine problems have been fixed for the 03.
Too bad you didn't get to enjoy the car, personally I love it. I hope you enjoy your truck as much as I get to enjoy my car. :)
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jack
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2002
00:36:27
|  RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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you guys are all dumb my stock rt 1/4 mile is 13.9
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jack
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2002
00:51:09
|  RE: SRT NEON
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you guys are really stupid the srt is turbocharged intercooled 2.4 liter with 223 hp at the wheels and 5 speed it will kick any imports ass from the dealer it even beats the subaru wrx so you need to reserch your stuff before you talk crap cause you don't know what you're talk about
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Noggin
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2002
08:39:44
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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Hey Jack, if you look carefuly, no one "talked crap" about your car. In fact, someone said that they thought it would run high 13's stock, which is what you said your car can do. And I am quite aware that your car is much faster than mine stock; however, I like to know what my car is capable of but I don't really worry about it. I'm not a big racer, I just like my car and isn't that what really matters?
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2002
10:56:20
| RE: 5.9 Dakota - 1/4 Mile Time
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Ok Jack....
Well we went car shopping this weekend (wife and I) .. didn't test any, just window shopped all day. Checked out the Spec-V, Jettas, RSX, Focus, Neon, Eclipse, A4, Alero, Civic, Protege5 .. still have to hit a Subura dealership.
So far, only the RSX and Spec-V stood out as potentials .. oh, and the Eclipse. The RSX is the front runner right now though I think. Next weekend we'll probably take the ones that made the short list out for a test drive.
What I'm hoping though is Mitsu will announce this Friday that they're bringing the Evo VII to Canada next year .. then we'll wait for that. I love that car!
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