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Randy
Dodge Dakota
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7/26/2004
21:54:08
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 Subject: Spark Knock TSB slowed the truck down?
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2001 3.9 w/5spd.
I read a while back that when some people took their trucks back to the dealer because of "pinging", the dealer would somehow retard the timing or something to stop the pinging, but this ultimatly kills performance. I believe it was Larry who mentioned this, and encouraged people to try the autolite 3923 plugs first.
My question is How do you "undo" what the dealer did?
I just got my truck from my father and he's had it in for the same reason, and the dealer "fixed" the ping and stuck a decal under the hood that says "TSB Spark Knock". I notice the truck shakes a bit at idle and it's got a pretty bad delay when you hit the pedal as it's idling in neutral. The original spark plugs indicate it's running on the lean side. I've already switched to the 3923's, but is there any way to undo what the dealer did? Can I try to turn the distributor counter clockwise slightly or would that throw off the fuel timing? Any advice is appriciated.
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another mark
Dodge Dakota
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7/26/2004
23:20:39
| RE: Spark Knock TSB slowed the truck down?
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i think the only way to get rid of the program in the pcm once the dealer has flashed it would be the superchips route
or have it custom flashed for big bucks, but the next time you take it to the dealer put the old program back they could reflash it again
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Just Looking
Dodge Dakota
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7/26/2004
23:39:18
| RE: Spark Knock TSB slowed the truck down?
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u can move the crank position sensor to add or take away timing its on the passenger side top of bell housing
It will help u recover the lost timing advance so u recover lost power from the flash but it will not take away the lag
Sorry to say the lags from our trucks thinking to much and there isnt much u can do about it
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?
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2004
08:16:39
| RE: Spark Knock TSB slowed the truck down?
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http://www.krcperformance.com/newcontent/timing.html
This is the " cure " - at least partially .
Then put a 180 therm and get cooler air in
to fight the ' ping '...
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Randy
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2004
08:18:19
| RE: Spark Knock TSB slowed the truck down?
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So it's safe to assume there's no way to get the dealer to flash the pcm with a more agressive setting for not alot of money?
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2004
10:54:36
| RE: Spark Knock TSB slowed the truck down?
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Here's a website that Larry posted a while back to inform everyone on how to elliminate pinging that is caused under different loads and rpms and the cure for each...
http://dodgeram.org/tech/gas/Trouble/ping.htm
I would personally have the dealer undo what they did then maybe advance the timing for extra power after you elliminate your pinging problems...
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Randy
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2004
12:09:43
| RE: Spark Knock TSB slowed the truck down?
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I have been looking at superchip and jet, and I guess before I do that I would try to move the crank sensor like KRC describes. I've already done a 180* stat and cold/ram air intake. But I agree with Greg that the first avenue to be attempted is to see if the dealer will put the truck back to the way it was. I doubt they'll do this for me, but does anyone know what they physically did to it?
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another mark
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2004
13:30:58
| RE: Spark Knock TSB slowed the truck down?
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you can try talking to the dealer, who knows, personally i don't
think dealers are going to do custom programs for your pcm,
they install factory approved programs from DC only, they are
not an auto hobby shop or some test and tune facility, think
about the ramifications of non approved programs in your pcm
and if something went wrong because of it, would they be liable?
hell yes, if i was a dealer i wouldn't condone anything but what
ma mopar said i could do
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Randy
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2004
14:03:29
| RE: Spark Knock TSB slowed the truck down?
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I figured as much. I planned on approaching them with "well the original setting was safe enough for you to sell it to me". I'll probably mess with the crank sensor.
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Marks Enemy
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2004
17:59:40
| RE: Spark Knock TSB slowed the truck down?
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Ma mopar, eh? Thats just g@y, mark.
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J and J Auto
GenII
7/29/2004
02:01:22
| RE: Spark Knock TSB slowed the truck down?
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The dealer will not remove an update flash for
ping its there to stay
The dealer answer is not good first try other
things
colder plugs
cooler thermo
higher octain gas
cold air setup
retarding the timming will drop both performance
and gas mileage
Supechips tunner is about the only option here or
find a replacement comp in a bone yard that was
not updated by the dealer
Larry
J&J Auto
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Randy
Dodge Dakota
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7/29/2004
09:54:27
| RE: Spark Knock TSB slowed the truck down?
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Well since the dealer already did the TSB, the performance has gone to hell but it still gets the same gas mileage though. Superchips lists a programmer for the vehicle, but it's pretty pricy. I saw that hypertech makes a programmer that claims to also read and clear trouble codes, which I think is neat but they don't list one for a 3.9L. Superchips part #3715 says it fits 3.9/5.2/5.9, do you think hypertech's v8 programmer would work on the v6 to?
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uh randy?
Dodge Dakota
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7/30/2004
22:48:17
| RE: Spark Knock TSB slowed the truck down?
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I know that you think you are a smart fella wanting to change the crank sensor to change the timing, but have you considered what you will have to do to change it?
you would have to remove the sensor, plug the hole with a suitable material, then re-drill and tap the hole, keep in mind that the hole needs to be plugged with a material that is the same tuffness, hardness, and consistancy as the cast iron in the block is because the new hole will drift into the old one, and then be out of the position you want it in, unless you are changing timing by more then about 10 degrees 9then they won't over lap). If you do not fill the old hole with a material very simular to the material the block is made out of, the drill WILL drift towards the softer of the two materials, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, either the block or the hole plug, depending on whichever is softer. also you gotta make sure you don't hit water jackets or oil galleries or drill in a way that the hole drifts outside the block or into the lower block cavity.
what I am saying here is that if you do not have the wherewithall to completely remove your engine, tear it down all the way, and mount the block in a machine shop boring mill, (a much bigger machine then the "Bridgeport" they guy down the street might have in his garage or a farmer might have in his barn) you are inviting more trouble then you can imagine trying to do it with a hand drill.
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Randy
Dodge Dakota
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8/01/2004
14:29:48
| RE: Spark Knock TSB slowed the truck down?
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Well I kind of decidided to go with the computer modifying route instead of moving the crank sensor, but I was pretty sure, the way I read the article, that the drilling os done to the sensor plate itself, not to the block. I imagined it to be as simple as elongating two bolt holes. But either way, I dont think I'll do that before i try to get the power back with a programmer.
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GB2000
GenIII
8/01/2004
14:50:06
| RE: Spark Knock TSB slowed the truck down?
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Uh "uh randy?"...that has got to be the most extreme crank sensor mod in the world...lol
Randy has it right. You modify the SENSOR, not the block. You just have to remove the grommet, slot the holes so it will slide and then put it back in and slide it whichever direction it needs to go (can't remember which), and then tighten it back down. No modifications to the block required.
Josh
http://www.cardomain.com/id/sentenced
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
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8/01/2004
22:14:41
| RE: Spark Knock TSB slowed the truck down?
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All you have to do is remove 3/8" to the upper side's of the bolt holes of the sensor so you can move it 3/8" toward the oil filter...
I've allready done that and more, and am currently thinking about removing it once again and maybe taking more out to advance it even more = more power and fuel mileage...
One thing that will also give you a more radical timing curve and slightly better fuel mileage is to modify your tps... I just changed mine from .83 volts to .89 or .9 volts... It registers constantly at .93 while it idles... This has just about elliminated all off the line stumble and made the driving around experiance a lot more nice...
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