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Dakota Ron
Dodge Dakota
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1/30/2003
01:09:18
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 Subject: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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Sputters & stalls on acceleration when running warm, especially up hills every 5 to 15 miles. Will restart after a few minutes rest and runs on as if nothing wrong - even up hill! Starts right up and purrs when cold - then runs a little rough when warm until stalls. Have replaced fuel pump, fuel & air filters, SMCC, plugs, wires, coil, Helmholtz pickup, distributer cap, rotor and O2 sensor - checked vacuum and cat. No codes. Have been told there may be blockage in tank or lines - gas guage just failed this week. Tranny & DL just checked. Any ideas? I need my truck to go to work!
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
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1/30/2003
13:39:11
|  RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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Have you done an onboard diagnostic using the CHECK ENGINE light? If not, go here and follow the directions:
http://www.geocities.com/ryankane/FaultCodes.html
Your problems sounds like a sensor starting to go out.
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Dakron
Dodge Dakota
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1/30/2003
17:13:55
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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Thanks for your idea - as hard as it may be to believe there's no check engine light on the (my ?) '87 carb model, only on the fuel injected ones. Even the cat guy was surprised and he said he's seen many Dakotas.
Am trying to get a hand scanner to scan the computer now, but auto stores(Autozone/Kragens/generic) here no longer will do it due to complaints from local mechanics.
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chris
Dodge Dakota
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1/30/2003
17:47:45
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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make sure the choke is operating properly, make sure the egr is free, you can get a finger on the diaphram,try to move it with the engine running the engine should stall at idle, if its stiff replace it.even if its not a leak at the poppet valve well cause rough idle and stalling, remove the valve and check it and the passages on the intake
check the floats that run the metering valve in the carb itself.make sure the valve is clean.
have the fuel pump pressure checked.
how did you check for vacum leaks?
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Dakron
Dodge Dakota
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1/30/2003
23:30:02
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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Yea - thought of the EGR. Doing that next. Waiting for gasket. EGR appears to be working, but will test/pull/clean that next. Had problems with a leaky one some years ago, but didn't effect the truck this bad.
Tested for vacuum by sight/sound/touch - going to guage it soon as I get a gauge - went looking just now. (Strong at PCV valve and elsewhere, though.)
Thought of choke and choke heater too - will check them. Had carb serviced a year ago - but will check/clean valve. (Got the rebuild kit - but will need a weekend for that! Was hoping it would keep till I got back to work - 200 mi away! Got stuck here visiting !:| )
Thanks for your input - verifies much of what I was thinking.
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Dakron
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2003
12:42:34
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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Did find something - when I replaced the Helmholtz pick-up, found the interrupter (notched ring on a plastic base) below it has some play in it. Not a lot of play, but metal slips some over the plastic pins holding it to base. Is this normal? Should the interrupter move solidly fixed with the distibuter shaft, or is a little play ok?
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chris
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2003
19:19:43
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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your welcome.
sight sound and gauge are a start for vacum leaks. but it isnt good enough. you need water and a propane torch. take the water and pour it around the intake manifold in the vallies where it meets the heads, it well get sucked into the engine where there is a leak.
that done take a propane torch and remove the nozzel so that you are left with the blow pipe and valve assembly. take a lenght of fuel line and push it over the blow pipe and clamp it with a hose clamp, then take a 8 in piece of metal tube and push about 2 inches into the other end of the hose and clamp it. using vise grips or pliers flaten out the open end of the tube so that you left with a a small hole .turn the torch on with only two turns and begin probing all the vacum connections,lines and so on. a change in idle speed well indicate a leak
the reason for the metal tube is to give you a fighting chance to turn of the propane before the hose catches fire if it should happen.
how was the vacum gage when you looked around ,did the needle hop alot or any thing?
when you get the engine warm and it runs like crap, start pulling plug wires one at a time. engine shouldnt stall if theres fire in all cylinders even if it does run rough. but if you pull one and it stalls keep going beware of the one that dosent stall the engine or change the idel alot. should you find this get a compression check done on the warm engine
did you check the voltage on #1 terminal where the pickup plugs into?
and do you have an air pump on that truck and does it work at all ?
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Dakron
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2003
21:31:28
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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Thanks again chris - will try the water trick and check the blower and watch the guage. (Got one today.) The compression pre-test I can do and the voltage test on the pick-up harness. Still need to check the choke. Spent some time looking for a hand scanner - no one had a compatible one in stock here and local mechs want to charge $60 to use theirs !! EGR valve will take 4 days to get here, if I need it! Saturday will be a busy day.
A parts guy told me I should have a POWER LOW lamp that acts like an ENGINE CHECK - found the place for it on the panel, but may be a space for other models. Or its blown - my Model book doesn't mention it. (Hate to pull the panel for nothing!)
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chris
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2003
22:07:38
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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ive heard of the power low light ,man its been a while since ive heard that. but in 1985 chrysler was using check engine light ,cause i unplugged the one in my laser lol
you parts guy may be right .
next time you take it out leave the breather in the box, go for a run ,leave the gas tank cap of as well
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Dakron
Dodge Dakota
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2/03/2003
04:34:37
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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Did guage checks for vacuum. Found a split hose at the throttle - replaced it and performance improved slightly. Vacuum varies a little at idle: 19> ~ <21 in Hg. Manual says "a little" is alright. EGR tested good external, as did thermal switch. (After I fixed the hose.) Probably pull EGR anyway and clean valve. Manual says to replace it every 5 years or 50 th - it's overdue, like I'm under paid. (New one takes almost a week to get here!)
Discovered choke pull-off doesn't hold much of a vacuum for very long. Going to replace it - if I can find one. (~$10 - $15 ...) Cleaned contacts on choke heater - test it in the morning.
Voltage at center of dist plug checked out ok ~ ~11.5 v. Try removing gas cap when I road test again, after stalls. Got pressure guage to check fuel pump. (Like to do it in-line - need a T.)
Still won't go more than ~10 mi without stalling. But runs great up until then.
Ready to do compression test - with guage. (I hope the internals are ok!)
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Dakron
Dodge Dakota
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2/04/2003
11:33:43
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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Choke heater checked out ok. Pull-off seems weak to me (rapid bleed down) but parts guy said it looked normal to him. No one really knows much about carb Dakotas around here.
Took it to mechanic Monday. Showed no fault codes - but computer is primitive. He thinks it's bad gas and a clogged carb. Want's to boil the tank out and rebuild the carb. Going to check fuel pump pressure first, do compression test and some carb checks. Then it goes to him - along with a good chunck of my last pay-check.
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chris
Dodge Dakota
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2/04/2003
19:18:40
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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have you run it with the gas cap of yet? they have to vent the tank or hold pressure depends on the type but try any way just in case the tank is becomeing vacum locked
kinda sucks,but before you let him rebuild the carb ,check the throttle shafts to make sure they have no play up and down or side to side. if they are not bushed you may as well get a rebuilt or price a holley or edelbrock. not many shops can do the bushings or have the equipment to bore and install new ones, much less press them , your money might be better spent on another carb with a warrenty
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Jay
Dodge Dakota
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2/06/2003
11:06:45
|  RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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I have a 87 Dak 4X4 3.9 auto. 244,000 mi. I am rebuilding it now. I never had any trouble with anything but the eng. The fuel strainer sock in the fuel tank plugged up and I could only travel for short distances on the level. It was almost impossible to get up a hill of any distance. They only sell the sock as a whole intank assembly so if you have replaced that then I can't help. The only other trouble I had was with the catalitic converter plugging up. I just removed it and drilled a 2" hole all the way though it and reinstalled it. It didn't change the smog test at all!!
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steve
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2003
08:38:56
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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don,t no what your problem is,sounds like you,ve covered most everything.but if need parts email me i,ve got a computer,carb.,gas tunk etc.,parted out 87 4x4.good luck!!!!steve197627@yahoo.com
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Dakron
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2003
22:01:11
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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Ok - back again. Family emergency had me busy for a day or two.
Chris - ran it with the gas cap off about half mile. Ran terrible, very choppy. Put gas cap back on and improved slightly, but now runs rough on start-up, stalls sometimes and runs fairly choppy. Also now gives off a gas smell under the hood. Think the carb is leaking. Checking that out in the morning. Do compression check then too, and the fuel pressure too. Trying everything to avoid taking it to mechanic next week - too expensive...
Jay - thanks for the info. Read about the sock (screen filter) on another posting/site too. My mechanic also mentioned something about the sock. (And my cat guy suggested it.) Mechanic says it'll cost me $150 to drop and boil the tank plus parts for the tank, as needed. Heard about your fix for a plugged cat before - used to be called the "broom-handle" fix. Shows you how useful the cat is! Just dead weight.
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chris
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2003
22:57:43
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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dont have to drop the tank. its easier to un bolt and lift up the front of the box,if you just wanna take sneak peak at the fuel pump and sock
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Kjazz
Dodge Dakota
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2/23/2003
00:15:58
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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I have the same truck with the same problem .I was told to check the cam and crank sensors..
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nbukrey
Dodge Dakota
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2/23/2003
23:42:57
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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Well, guys, i am glad to see people with these same fustrating problems.
I have same truck and have totaly rebuilt the carb. It had a new fuel pump and i put on a new filter.
My guess would be right along with everyone elses. Tank or carb.
But i know from experience try as hard as you can to not let a shop start f-ing with it because nobody knows what the heck they are doing with a carbed engine (especially our dakotas!!) --- at least thats how it is around here...SD...
I called a shop to just price a carb rebuild and they didnt even call back so i called em and they said that it sounded too complicated and they dont like to deal with carbs...
What the heck is this coming too.. uh
Well anyway... good luck man. let us know how it goes.--especially the egr...my light is on and i dont know how to shut if off and i think i might need to do a rebuild.
any help on the light????
Thanks and good luck
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Dakron
Dodge Dakota
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2/27/2003
22:38:23
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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Yea - going to try the carb rebuild myself for ~$20 - stock carb isn't too complex. If I blow it, I can get a rebuilt for ~$225, and a "new" (Holly?) for ~>$350. The shop guy (he does do carbs) says he'll do the rebuild for $150 - but he had it off a couple years ago...
Will take a look for the sensors.
Had to burn about 10 g's of gas out of the tank to drain and work on that end. Someone suggested back-pressure (hand pump) below the fuel pump (tank cap off & flange open) to back-flush the tank filter some. Then suck everything out. (I know this worked sometimes on pre-smog models - don't know about this one?)
Runs great now for ~5 mi's, then goes quirky. Seems the less fuel it has in it, the quirkier it gets. Maybe something did go down the tank ?!
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nbukrey
Dodge Dakota
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2/27/2003
23:46:54
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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Sounds good but I would try and do the carb rebuild yourself. Save some money.... if you can mess with you tank like that you can do the rebuild yourself...just remember to pick up a haynes or chilton or something like that, they are a great help.
Good luck and any further ?'s don't hessitate to ask.
nbukrey@hotmail.com
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steve
Dodge Dakota
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2/28/2003
18:19:19
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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heres something you can try,once the truck is warmed up remove the air breather and close the choke slowly by hand.before you get it closed fully the motor should start to choke up,if it idles up and/or smoothins out some you may have a vacuum leak or lack of fuel.vacuum leak may be under intake where it mates to the heads.[i had this problem several years ago with a 318,it ran rough motor shook terrible idling.ran pretty good cold.could,nt find the leak until i took the intake off.gaskets fell out in pieces] also the rubber gas line hoses on top of the gas tank sometimes rot and crack,causing to suck air.maybe this will help you some.
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Dakron
Dodge Dakota
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3/25/2003
12:31:10
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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Just wanted to let everyone know that I think I isolated the problem. Pumped some air back through the gas line below the fuel pump with a bike pump. Truck ran fine for ~40 miles (best it's done in awhile), 'till the gas got low (~ 1-2 gal) - then problem reappeared. Repeated process and added a gallon of gas. Truck ran fine for about same distance - even uphill, even at low idle waiting at stop lights and making turns!! (Didn't stall once!)
So I'm thinking it's a blockage in the tank - fouled screen - or something down in there I picked up at a local gas station. So I'll be dropping the tank to clear it - when I get back. Probably rebuild carb too. (Have to go out on a job for a few months. This problem cost me my last one!)
Thanks to everyone for your help and ideas - truck really has been a good one, except for this problem! Hope to get it running like it should again for Summer.
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Rick
Dodge Dakota
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5/15/2003
04:58:44
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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I have just been through a week of hell with mine.
It ended out being the fuel pump after all. It ran fine...Until the pump got hot. After that it quit! The delaer suggests never running the tank below 1/2 full. The gas acts as a heat sink to disepate the heat from the motor in the pump...The more gas you have in the tank, The larger the heat sink.
Mine is an 89 model, but while dropping the tank today I found that one of the lines going to the tank is a TEST line. It just goes from the tank to a plugged line, Just below the fill tube. maybe you can blow some air in there and see if that frees it up.
I also hear that after market pumps are known for being crap. The factory pump lasted 130 thousand miles and 11 years. The new one died after only three years. Just because it's a new pump, Doesn't mean its a GOOD pump.
Another thought would be that valve on the exhaust manifold. If it is frozen, It could cause poor running conditions after it's hot.
Good Luck...I KNOW it's frustrating.
Rick
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Peoria
Dodge Dakota
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7/17/2003
02:35:34
| RE: 87 Dakota V6 AT 2WD Problems
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I have problem I will try some of these things. Would it have anything to do with fuisable links.
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