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Trouble
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1/08/2003
20:45:22

Subject: Diagnostic Check
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I just got a diagnostic check for my 2000 v6 because it was making a rattling noise everytime I accelerated uphill. my question is, I paid $120 for it, does this sound about right?

thx



danny
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1/08/2003
21:00:56

RE: Diagnostic Check
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To raise your hood??? diag check.... what did they check???? In my experience, rattle or PING uphill... take the air hat off and look down into the intake.... if you are seeing oil the belly pan is leaking....usually the vehicle will be using oil.... $120.00 and what's the results???? they just don't rattle!!!! And You IMO got took!!! Go to someone that has more knowledge about daks



Trouble
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1/08/2003
21:50:55

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Danny, I had no choice, instead of bringing it somewhere else, my dumbass brought it to the dealer. They said the problem had to do with the spark plug wiring being "wrapped" wrong (they talked to my wife). A while back I had the spark plug wires changed with MSD wires at the local midas shop. The dealer told my wife whoever put the wires on put it on wrong so it was causing it to make a rattling noise. The fools actually didn't charge anything for the work (supposedly) only for the diagnostic check.



danny
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1/09/2003
18:46:03

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Trouble, I work for a Dodge dealer and what they are talking about is the routing of the wires. The coil wire should be routed between the valve cover and the intake manifold per a tsb that concerns all 3.9's, 5.2's, and the 5.9's. Charging you $120.00 for this diag AND correcting the routing is a RIP-OFF!!!! At our shop, the EASY stuff is only 1/2 hour or $42.50 and most likely would include me correcting the wiring issue. Check that your intake is not leaking internally, the belly pan as they call it! I also own a 2000 dak with the 3.9 and mine started leaking at 20,000 miles. The good side is that it was covered under warranty and I was paid to fix it. I got the re-enforcement kit from Hughes Engines and used copper rtv with the Mopar type HD gasket from Napa. Take the air hat off, the tube that has a single plastic nut that is bolted to the top of the tb and open the butterfly and take a look see. Should be almost totally dry. There is a test that you do to verify the intake leak but I've never done it because when you open the butterfly you usually see oil. You might have a slight oil loss showing on the dip stick depending on how bad the leak is, possible failed emission test and PING!!!!! Of course some of the magnum motors ping and there is a tsb on that, that when done reprograms the computer, this is not good because it DE-TUNES the motor. If you have no leak the only thing I would recommend is to go up a grade or two in gas and see if that helps. It took my ping away until I had time to fix it. PING is bad and WILL HURT THE MOTOR!!!!! If you have more questions email me at djcavin612@earthlink.net. P.S. I would not wait too long to let the dealer know that they screwed your wife, might have been different had it been you!!!



Trouble
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1/09/2003
21:42:35

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Danny..
Wow, thanks for the info! This is what I did, I picked up the truck today and was ready to ask questions. The sales manager apologized and said that they waived the charge for the diagnostic and that all the repairs are covered under warranty. They also gave us a complimentary oil change for the inconvenience. They said the problem were the MSDs, they were not connected properly. They fixed that and they "reprogramed the PCM with a new reprograming - part#56040348AG" which I don't know what the heck means. I didn't ask any questions, i just took the keys and took off. Everything was free.

Hey Danny, they also performed a recall fix that had to do with a "982 clock spring replacement," do you have any idea what that is?

Anyways, thanks for your advise!!



danny
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1/10/2003
18:23:14

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Trouble, The clockspring is behind/below the steering wheel. The electrical connecters that permit the horn, airbag etc to work run thru the clockspring. Think of it as a ribbon that is wound around the inside of the clockspring that connects the topside of the steering wheel things, on the steering wheel to the wires running down underneath the steering wheel. If that's confusing try reading and understanding the official DCC line. What they won't tell you is that DCC has a problem in all of their vehicles with the clocksprings. Heck I should know a done a bunch of them!!! The flash that they gave you addresses the ping concern, I believe. Not to sure and I will check on that. If it would have been me I would have "tried " the truck out first after the repair, But the dealers are kinda funny about the "flash" crap, including the one I work for, they get 1/2 hour time for doing the flash from DCC. And the oil change should have been included in the repair, you know in case the tech wasn't into keeping stuff clean. I run Mobil 1 and was "REAL" careful and knew that I didn't have to worry about crap getting down into places it didn't belong. I guess it's all in the TECH, in a big hurry to get the warranty work done UNLIKE me, screw the TIME thing, I'm into doing it RIGHT!!!! I'll let you know about the flash thing, and by the way " Once flashed, no going back"!!!!! Ain't that a B#TCH!!!!!



Trouble
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1/13/2003
21:24:47

RE: Diagnostic Check
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danny.. thanks for all your help, bro! it runs fine now but i'll take your advice(just in case) and i'll put higher octane gas for a while.

thanks, again.



danny
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1/14/2003
18:42:43

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Trouble, When you get the chance, pull the air hat off and take a look see down the tb bore. If possible have the rear end sitting higher than the front end. With luck it will be dry! Anything else I can help you with drop me a line. C YA



Troubs
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1/14/2003
21:02:27

RE: Diagnostic Check
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ok danny, i'll try that this weekend.

we need more people like you on this board!



stealwings582
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1/15/2003
11:25:56

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Hey Danny, it's nice to have some experience on this forum. I have kind of the same problem. I open the butterfly on the TB and see quite a bit of oil sludge. I mean it's not flowing oil but there is a film of oil below the butterfly. I have a 98 3.9 Dak, should I take it to the dealer and have them fix belly pan gasket(it's not under warrenty anymore)or do it myself? It does use a little bit of oil over a 3000 mile change but maybe only 1/4 to 1/2 a quart. It's been that way since I've owned it. Any suggestions? Thanks, Greg

Wouldn't want any other!

danny
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1/15/2003
19:53:46

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Steelwings582, First let me tell you "THAT IS ONE FINE LOOKIN' DAK!!!!" There are a lot of things to consider, mileage on the vehicle, how it's driven, is maintence done in a timely manner? As you look down the bore is the film on the very bottom? When you "get into it", 2nd/3rd /4th gear, does she ping/rattle. There is a test that a good tech can do to determine if you have a leaking belly pan, if done wrong it will do more harm than good as the vac will build up in the crankcase. As far as oil level, DCC will tell you that up one quart per 3000 miles is considered normal on "LOW" mileage vechicles. One thing to think about.... this sludge you are seeing.... the pcv vents on top of the tb and everything goes down the tb and "IF" there is oil down there, where it shouldn't be, then just like the oily K and N filter the blow by "gets" caught by the oil. As far as doing it yourself.... get the dak service book, ebay has the best price, and read. The bracket that holds the A/C compressor and alt will have to come off, upper rad hose, water pump bypass hose, ( this I replace on everyone), I take the tb off and give it a good cleaning after taking the sensors off it(you will need a new tb gasket). then after removing the manifold there are a few more things I do to "make" the job meet my "STANDARDS". The thing is just about all the ones that I do are warranty and that doesn't pay very well BUT I go home at nite knowing that it's the best and there is another Dak out there that is done right. I don't make a lot for what I do but call it job satisfaction!!! Oh I forgot torque wrench, various sockets ( 14mm, 15mm, 13mm comes to mind) good hose pliers, extensions etc. If you do it I wish you luck, just keep in mind two things.... you never learn unless you take on the challenge and sometimes things are better left for the pro to do.... Let me know how it goes.



stealwings582
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1/16/2003
10:55:43

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Hey thanks. My girlfriend says I pay more attention to it than her. I guess I've always wanted a Dak since the Gen 3 came out, so I just take care of it the best I can. I think my mod days are over. I like what I've done, but there really isn't too many mods to go with at this point. That's true about the PCV valve, I really didn't think about that. As far as performance right now, it doesn't ping or anything. Runs like a V-8. Just a little worried when I saw the oil film and read your thread. I deffinately can say that you are a good mechanic from the way you talk. The dealer here isn't too bad but I've had my problems with them too. If you don't mind, I was going to keep your e-mail address for future reference. I'll let you know how things go and I hope to see you on this forum more often. Thanks again, Greg

Wouldn't want any other!

Troubs
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1/16/2003
15:23:27

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Same here, Danny!



danny
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1/16/2003
18:07:35

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Trouble, Steel, I like my little Dak so much that the first thing I did was order the service manuals ( paid too too much but I had to have them), just so that I would have them. Over kill considering I work for Dodge but IMO one can never have enough. If "ya'll" ever need just drop me a line and I'll give it 110%. And by the way Trouble if the flash they gave you is the numbers you gave me I think that you are ok on the de-tuning, she should be running as good as before. And Steel, the mods never stop, just more thought goes into the next, myself..... supercharger if I can get it past the wife!!! Take care and keep in touch.



Trouble
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1/16/2003
18:20:58

RE: Diagnostic Check
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thanks danny! hey, got any pics of your truck?



Brent
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1/18/2003
12:21:57

RE: Diagnostic Check
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I have a 99 4x4 Dakota,my engine MIL light is on .
During Closed loop .I have a shop manual but there is no troubleshooting section.How can I see my fault codes or do I have to have a reader



danny
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1/18/2003
15:27:15

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Brent, I've seen posts about pulling codes for 99's.... Something like turn the key on/off 3, 4 maybe 5 times and press the speedo reset after/ during ( not to sure about this after rereading it)..... I'm sure if you try the search engine for dd.com you will find it.... the 00 book tells me scanner only and so does mitchell...I'll check monday and post again...or sooner.... you got me started/wondering.... if the check engine light is/does flash while driving, DO NOT CONTINUE TO OPERATE THE VEHICLE!!!!! i'll be back at you monday evening.



Brent
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1/18/2003
18:47:37

RE: Diagnostic Check
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I tried the on/off,on/off ,on. With the ignition
the other night and no code showed up. I thought mabe if I held in the trip reset button it might work ,but no. I did get a real cool "BITE" check of the dash cluster. All the LEDs on the odometer checked ,all the warning lights checked ,and all the gauges went through a cycle.



danny
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1/18/2003
19:55:21

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Brent, try to find someone with a generic scanner that reads OBD2, any scanner will work as all are able to read in this fashion, manufactures are required to have them (pcm) this way so as not to corner the owner into who he deals with. data flow will not be as much but enough to get by on. i have a snap on and it's a toy compared to drb3 but is ok to work with. kinda thought you couldn't get in the back door....left my snap on manual/oper.book at the shop and they sometimes give you little tricks on how to pull codes the easy way..... let me know as i try to get actual owner input to go along with the book stuff. you can also email me direct see the postings above for addy or try djcavin612@earthlink.net Danny



stealwings582
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1/19/2003
15:13:16

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Here where I live in Lancaster, Ca. the dealer will put the hand held scanner tool on and check the pcm for free. Maybe they'll do that where you live. Hey Danny, I think I'm going to replace the intake plentum gasket(Belly Pan). It doesn't look that hard and unlike the GM intakes, I don't have to pull the Distributor off. I'm also going to install the 1.7 Crowler rocker arms while I'm at it. It'll give me a little winter job to do. Was thinking of porting the intake out. I hear that helps. What do you think about this Danny?

Wouldn't want any other!

danny
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1/19/2003
19:03:57

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Steel, I've heard that you lose some low end power when porting the intake, don't really lose just moves the power band up, or what you would do is shorten the runners as the thing is big and hollow inside...quite different from a cebby intake.... You being 4 whl drive I think that you would want to keep the low end grunt. One thing comes to mind, when I replaced the belly pan I noticed that the v8 tb was bigger that the v6 intake opening, and not being shy about opening things up, I used the intake gasket as a guide, made the marks and with roto tool ported the opening to match.... The v8 tb is a good mod to start with anyway and imo the porting helped, kinda like woke it up even more. I've not done 1.7 rockers yet, looked at the directions and sounds easy enough. If you feel comfortable doing rockers you won't have any probs with the intake. Also get with Hughes Eng ( go to links and jump that way ) and consider doing the re-inforcement plates. I did it on mine, had to tweak/roto because it was not quite right, no biggie and also use copper rtv. Made me at least feel that it would last... also clean the mating surfaces real good and using a pointed tip punch peen the intake where to pan will sit ( IT'S CAST ALUM, PAN IS STEEL) doing this every 1/4" leaves a little spot for the gasket to grip when bolted back together w/ rtv and also use copper rtv on the intake corners, lasts/works better than regular rtv imo. Can't remember who/where but someone is making a billet alum plate, step one remove steel plate step two THROW AWAY, this helping in that the exspansion rate would be equal and wouldn't hence stress the gasket Do you know what axle ratio u have, I switched from 3.21 to 3.92 and that REALLY gave it pulling power. In first gear it will burn the tires hard and at will without dropping the clutch...at idle rolling in first and stomping the pedal at will...the difference is like nite and day... course you would have to do it twice...4x4 and all that If you need torque valves etc let me know.....Danny



Trouble
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1/19/2003
19:54:14

RE: Diagnostic Check
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danny.. its me again with another ?tion. did you change the gears yourself? i want to change my 3.55s to 3.92s or even 4.10s but gears seem as though its a very tedious job that only trained pros should be doing. where can i get these done? dodge dealer maybe? or do you have any partners up here in northern cali?

thanks, man!



danny
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1/20/2003
18:22:50

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Trouble, When I changed the rear ratio I swapped out the whole rear end from drum to drum. I found a dak in southern Md, that had been hit real hard in the front and the price was right....only $900. Some would say too too much but I look at it this way... if the 3.92's lunch on me I got the orginal ready to slide right back in. Shop smart and maybe u can find one with a posi in it, I wasn't lucky but I took it anyways. Working at the Dodge dealer here in Germantown Md. does have it's perks... I've got a posi now just need to change the ring and with alittle luck should go right in....I'm not to sure if I were you that I would go to the dealer... labor is usually higher and nothing beats the feeling of knowning who's working on yur truck.... depending on tire size you might creep up to 4.10's.... I'm running 285-60-16's on the rear and I like the 3.92's.... Not running to many rpm's on the freeway and pulls real good at all rpm's and all gears.... Let me know what happens...Danny



stealwings582
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1/21/2003
11:12:00

RE: Diagnostic Check
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That deffinately sounds right, Danny. I don't understand why Dodge put a steel plate on a aluminum manifold anyway. Would like to find who's making the aluminum plentum plate. Might have to make that a topic on this forum to find out. I have a 48mm flowmtrics TB. It fits like the v-8. That's kind of why I wanted to port the intake. Not really sure if I'm actually going to do that but from what I've heard the thing to do is have the corners rounded a little in the intake. I guess polished is the best wording. But according to Bearnd, who runs speedtweeks.com, he did it and it made a good improvement. Yeah, the 1.7 rockers look like a pretty easy mod. haven't heard too much in the way of problems. I have a 4.10 rear end with a stock posi unit. Just had it installed a couple of months ago. Deffinately worth the money. Big difference in low end. I have a hard time spinning the tires at times because of the 33 BFG's on it but it deffinately graps the road well. Speaking of off road, it was the best mod I ever did. Question on the torque valves. Is that in the tranny? Haven't seen those used before. I have a 4x2, no transfer case. This truck was made for street so I mod'd for offroad. I'll tell you what though, I've offroaded with the best of them and with a little weight in the bed (around 200 Ibs), I can keep up with most 4x4's. Only thing that can out do me is when I've gone on the jeep trails, the jeeps can turn sharp corners easier than me. That's because of the shorter wheelbase of course. Have to look around for that aluminum plentum plates. Please update if you find them. Thanks, Greg

Wouldn't want any other!

danny
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1/21/2003
18:16:24

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Steel, Meant values, torque tables...see the service manual DCC AN 81-370-0010...When you gonna do it? I'm waiting for warmer weather, too cold! Let me know or email off forum. Danny



stealwings582
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1/21/2003
18:55:35

RE: Diagnostic Check
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Right on. I'll keep you up to date for sure. Probably by e-mail. I put the question of the plentum plate on both v-6 and v-8 forums to find out where to get it. Hopefully someone here will know something about it. Thanks, Greg

Wouldn't want any other!

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