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Spyder343
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
20:22:32
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 Subject: TPS Mod on an '89?
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I have seen a lot about the SpeedTweaks TPS mod, but haven't read if anyone has tried it on an '89 TBI V6. Has anyone tried this mod on a TBI V6? Can it be done to an '89?
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Justin P
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
22:14:25
|  RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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I think that I remember right, Bernd said that the TPS trick can only be done on 92' or older, but I may be wrong.
Justin P
01;QC;4.7;3:55;auto
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bernd
*GenIII*
11/14/2001
23:56:45
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Yup...'92 or newer only.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
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Spyder343
Dodge Dakota
11/15/2001
02:24:05
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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ARG! My truck is too old for anything! :)
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bernd
*GenIII*
11/15/2001
10:58:14
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Message:
Not really, you've got the advantage of Mopar Performance parts where as us "newer model" folks don't.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
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Spyder343
Dodge Dakota
11/15/2001
14:14:46
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Yeah, I know. Especially valve covers! I was just venting a little. I really want to try some of the cool tweaks you guys can do.
You wouldn't happen to know the initial TPS voltage on an '89, would you? The reason I ask is because I sometimes notice the stumbling that is mentioned in connection with low TPS voltage on the SpeedTweaks website.
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Rob
Dodge Dakota
11/15/2001
16:05:58
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Spyder, if you want to do mods on your 89 dak hold on for like a week or two, I was in to my local Dodge dealer recently and ordererd a copy of the preformance book for to good old 87-91 3.9 V6, hope that it will give me some good info on the engine cause I cant find much either. Anyways will post again when I get the book.
Rob
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Spyder343
Dodge Dakota
11/15/2001
17:46:03
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Cool! Thanks! I'll definitely wait. Let us know what you find out!
How much did that performance book cost? I may just have to invest in one!
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Rob
Dodge Dakota
11/16/2001
05:13:51
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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I have been told by the dealership approx $50 cdn for the book.
the part # is P4876827
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Spyder343
Dodge Dakota
11/16/2001
06:52:09
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Wow! I don't have $50 dollars right now (just bought an MSD 6A), but Christmas is only a month away :) Let me know if you find anything cool!
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Spyder343
Dodge Dakota
11/16/2001
06:52:28
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Wow! I don't have $50 dollars right now (just bought an MSD 6A), but Christmas is only a month away :) Let me know if you find anything cool!
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CW
GenIII
11/16/2001
09:24:50
|  RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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2001 Mopar Performance book P5007601 $5.00 US
think I paid about $7.00 Can. Got the book sitting right here. Wait for the 2002 book should be out shortly.
2001 4.7 5sp RC 3.91 sport plus
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bernd
*GenIII*
11/16/2001
11:27:50
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Contact WorldWide Performance Parts. He picked up a case of them (2002 Mopar Perf. Catalogs) from the SEMA show when we went there.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
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Rob
Dodge Dakota
11/19/2001
17:48:20
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Message:
Spyder just to let you know my book is in will pick it up tomorrow.
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Spyder343
Dodge Dakota
11/20/2001
07:32:07
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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All right!!!
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Rob
Dodge Dakota
11/20/2001
19:56:21
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Well I got the book and it has amazing information for rebuilding the engine into a racing engine. Does have some good stuuf to for those of us that dont want a true racing engine, but a beefed up stock one. Let me know what you are after and I will see what I can do to help you
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Spyder343
Dodge Dakota
11/21/2001
02:38:07
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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I am seriously going to have to put that book on my Christmas list! Does it say anything about the TPS initial voltage or any IAT tweaks?
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Rob
Dodge Dakota
11/21/2001
18:46:51
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Message:
No mention of TPS voltage anywhere or IAT tweaks, one thing I can tell you though if you really want a preformace upgrade, get the Holley 4Bbl card for it, you can get from 600 cfm up to 855 cfm.
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Spyder343
Dodge Dakota
11/22/2001
06:22:13
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Will a Holley 4BBL work on a throttle body injection engine?
By the way, how's that book workin' out for you? I am seriously considering getting one.
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
11/22/2001
11:42:19
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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I have a Mopar Perf catalog from 1992, and it has some '89 mod parts and part numbers throughout it. Lots of good stuff. If you have a part number, you can almost find one anywhere, assuming a Chrysler dealership still has one in stock.
What is a "TPS" anyway? I might be able to shed some light on the subject....
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Rob
Dodge Dakota
11/22/2001
17:13:27
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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You replace the TBI with the Holley 4Bbl, it is suppose to result in some serious HP and Torque gains, I am gonna do some research to see if I can find a 4Bbl TBI cause that would probably be easier to swap.
TPS = Throttle Position Sensor
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Rob
Dodge Dakota
11/22/2001
17:40:22
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Well I must say my research didnt take me long. Anyways I think I found something that will work awesome. It is a 4Bbl TBI unit from Holley for the 1978 and later 318-360. Anyways it is a complete TBI setup. It is the 100cfm Four Barrel Digital "DI" part #504-22S, claims it will give you between 225 and 400HP. It is totally programmable with a IBM compatible PC. I am gonna check it out with my local auto parts store and see what I can find out for a price cause hell I WANT MORE POWER :)
anyways if interested it is right on the Holley site
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CW
GenIII
11/22/2001
19:53:23
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Not to burst your bubble but the HP numbers displayed are the HP numbers that, the unit will support. The 1000 cfm unit is way overkill. There are some 2bbl units that would work good but why would you replace a TBI with a TBI no advantage there.
2001 4.7 5sp RC 3.91 sport plus
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Rob
Dodge Dakota
11/23/2001
05:48:15
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Actually CW there would be, think of it as you doing a TB swap with a TB from a larger engine, the result is that there is more air into the engine result more power. One other advantage of doing this type of swap is that we are going from 2Bbl with 2 injectors to 4Bbl with 4 injectors, same as going from a 2 Bbl carb to a 4Bbl carb, you get more power, and it is totally programmable so we could run anywhere from like 4L up to like 6L plus control ignition advance etc, so overall I would say it would present a very nice advantage for those of us with pre magnum 3.9 to get into the game and kick ricer butt
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CW
GenIII
11/23/2001
09:21:07
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Correct me if I am wrong but on the pre magnum units the initial timing is adjustable by simply turning the distributor. The TBI units just use a conventional distributor with computer controled advance but you can set the initial timing where ever you want. I am not saying do not do it but the 1200 for a programable TBI unit seems lots of money for the ammount of HP you would gain. Unless you wanted to go big on everything like cam, heads, compression then a programmable unit would be lots of help. Hopefully I have not offended you, I am just trying to learn like everyone else. I would love to see a TBI V-6 smoke a ricer anyday.:)
2001 4.7 5sp RC 3.91 sport plus
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
11/23/2001
10:58:07
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Theres not much sense in replacing the TBI with a carb unless you replace the manifold, too. I know MP made an aftermarket one, but I've only seen one for sale, and that was on eBay a long time ago. I'd definitely replace that along with a new carb if I were you. Or, an even cheaper route, I've heard that you can take the injectors off of a 318 and stick them on there as is. I know a guy that did that and made a huge improvement.
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Rob
Dodge Dakota
11/23/2001
16:44:35
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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No offence taken CW, I am just trying to come up with ideas as to how to get the HP and Torque numbers up on a pre magnum 3.9
Hey Tiger did that guy just swap the injectors or did he swao the entire TB
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Rob
Dodge Dakota
11/23/2001
19:26:32
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Yeah CW you are right about the HP to cost ratio concerning the upgraded TBI, I priced it and it is like $1900 cdn for the unit so I am not gonna get that in the near future
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
11/23/2001
19:44:28
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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That guy went to a junkyard and found a 318 and bought the injectors. I guess that's all he installed on his truck. Apparently it screwed right on the OE fuel delivery system.
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Rob
Dodge Dakota
11/23/2001
20:09:29
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Interesting, I will have to see what I can find out
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
11/25/2001
19:42:59
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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TigerDak, please explain to me just how that 318 injector set would couse a HP gain? I have a 90' Dak with the terribly weak 3.9L and am just trying to squeeze every little bit of HP outa her. Thanks,
Joe E.
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JW
Dodge Dakota
12/17/2001
04:59:54
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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It was me who replaced my 3.9 injectors with 5.2 injectors. I was in the same boat as you guys with my 89 Dakota Sport 4x4. (Happy with the truck, but the power is embarrasing) I went through investigating the whole Mopar upgrade garbage. Unless you guys like going back to electric chokes and needle valves, and float settings, bla, bla, bla, don't bother. For daily driving, nobody can beat injection - tbi or multiport. Now, back to injectors. I installed Edelbrock headers part#6851, K&n filter #e-1290, new "y" pipe, and new 2.5" exhaust with FloPro race muffler(threw old cat in the bush). I got meager performance upgrade. Called Mopar guru. He said that with my mods to the air side, the pcm had maxed the air/fuel mixture and it was still running lean. So to rich up the mix i now needed higher flow injectors. TBI injectors are color coded. the 3.9 uses 50PPH injectors, the 5.2 has 65PPH units. it takes about a week of regular driving for the computer to get over the shock trauma. Then things start to happen.
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Jeff
Dodge Dakota
12/17/2001
05:08:56
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Message:
PS:
pull your filter assembly of the throttlebody, take the torx bolt from the center between the black caps(don't lose the spacer), pull of the black caps, and the injectors are right there.The injector tops are color coded.3.9's are pale green, if I recall, 5.2's are yellow. Go to holley.com and compare the colors. Note: get them from wreckers of somewhere, new ones are mega expensive! want to make your gen1 dak look cool? Check out www.walt-n-ingrid.com. See ya.
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
12/17/2001
16:13:14
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Hi guys,
JW, help man! I have a 1990 3.9L. I have the same mods as you do. The K&N filter, the edlebrock headers, no cat, flowmaster muffler, and 2.5in dual pipes. Like you said, a meager HP increase.
OK, with the 318 fuel injectores! You say the plug into OEM location with no tinkering right? They allow more fuel to enter the TBI hence, more HP right? Just take a guess, about how much HP do you figure you gained from these 318 injectors? And has your gas MPH been killed in the process?
Thanks for your help guys. Its been unreplaceable!
Have a good holiday season.
Joe E.
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Jeff
Dodge Dakota
12/17/2001
20:45:38
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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The injectors are identical in all respects except for the "pinhole size" on the spray nozzel.
Like mine, your 3.9 with those mods is running constantly lean. You'll notice at full throttle in high gear the engine is "fluttery" without a definate top end, and acceleration is slow. With the larger injectors the computer now reads a severly rich mix from the 02 sensor and begins to relean the throttlebody to correct for this. When you first change injectors the engine will run very rough for a few minutes. That's because the pcm is correcting for the sudden "totally rich" condition. Just stand there and you should hear the results of your pcm in action. the engine will suddenly start to smooth out on idle.
Your mileage will not change, and might actually increase since you are closer to the correct air/fuel mix again, you will notice a lot less gas pedal required to attain the same speed as before. I am currently working on adding a second snorkel on the other side of my air intake
and routing the tube down under the battery opposite the original one. If you look through your grill on the drivers side, you'll see a cutout plate already prepared for you by the boys at Chrysler!
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JW
Dodge Dakota
12/18/2001
02:05:54
| Bushings & pulleys
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Energy suspension lists a part # for the Gen1 Dakota 2wd chassis bushings, but not for the 4X4. Did Chrysler actually have different body mounts for the same body style/year truck because one had 4 wheel drive?! Or will the 2wd chassis bushings fit on the 4X4? I really need to know!
Also can anyone give me a definite website/phone Number/part number for an underdrive 3 belt crank pulley for '89 3.9...One that uses the other original pulley locations on the alternator, water pump, and ps pump. I don't really want to reengineer the whole acessory drive system to run serpentine belts- just slow everything down up front a bit!
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
12/18/2001
20:58:21
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Jeff, I understand the whole air/fuel mix and injector thing. But how in the heck do you get to the things? You take the air assembly off, then what? Thanks for your help. I am trying to find these 5.2L injectors now. Are their any bad side effects of the new injector install? Thanks again
Joe E.
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87dak
Dodge Dakota
12/18/2001
22:16:39
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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I have a 87 3.9L V6.... it only has a carb and no kind of fuel injection. What can I do to easily increase power? I don't know much about carbeurators.... what was the Holley 4 bbl carb someone mentioned earlier? would this work on a 87? where can I get more info/prices? Thanks
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JW
Dodge Dakota
12/22/2001
02:23:48
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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After the air filter assembly is off, you'll see 2 black topped bullet looking things. Those are the injector pods, and the injectors are inside them. Between the black tops, there is a bold with a tube washer under it. remove the bolt/washer. Pry up on the black tops, rocking them back and forth so as not to break them. These tops each have a pair of wires attached, and act as plug connections to the injectors. Once you pop them off, you will see the top of the actual injector. between the two electrical contacts, there is a raised plastic piece with an indent on either side. Insert two small flat screwdrivers in the indents on either side, and gently pry up on the injector. It should pop up and out of the pod. There is a rubber ring seal near the top and one at the bottom of the injector. Make sure both of these come out of the pod, if not simply fish it out and replace it on the injector. To reinstall, place the black cap on the injector watching polarity - it will only go on one way. Lubricate the rubber ring seals with vaseline and reinsert the injectors until the black caps are correctly reseated on the pods. Replace the bolt assembly. The first time you go to start it, get a friend to turn the key "on" while you watch in the throttlebody for any leaking fuel after the initial "start spray" to ensure the rings are correctly seated. One of mine didn't seat properly the first time and basically dumped fuel down the intake manifold!
PS: remember the injectors are loaded under pressure, even with the key off. Disconnect the battery, and pry the injectors out SLOWLY to bleed off the pressure. The Hayne's manual lists a procedure to "jump" the injectors to releive the pressure but I didn't bother.
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JW
Dodge Dakota
12/23/2001
13:20:53
|  RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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Message:
HELP - HELP - HELP - HELP - HELP - HELP - HELP
Energy suspension lists a part # for the Gen1 Dakota 2wd chassis bushings, but not for the 4X4. Did Chrysler actually have different body mounts for the same body style/year truck because one had 4 wheel drive?! Or will the 2wd chassis bushings fit on the 4X4? I really need to know!
Also can anyone give me a definite website/phone Number/part number for an underdrive 3 belt crank pulley for '89 3.9...One that uses the other original pulley locations on the alternator, water pump, and ps pump. I don't really want to reengineer the whole acessory drive system to run serpentine belts- just slow everything down up front a bit!
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Joe E.
Dodge Dakota
12/24/2001
15:59:14
| RE: TPS Mod on an '89?
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JW, when you got your 5.2L fuel injectors (used right?) what did you look for pretaining to the quality of the injectors and if they worked or not? I am seriously considering trying to find a set of these injectors and installing them. Since I have read this forum, I have been paying attention to the engine running on my Dak andI see everything you were talking about.
Thanks for the help JW. Maybe I can get this Dak up to some type of "Normal V6" HP.
Have a good X-Mas.
Joe E.
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