| From | Message |
J and J Auto
GenII
 
11/13/2006
23:04:53
|
 Subject: Timing
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Message:
The timing on the V6 is very weak the crank sensor
mod would be a must do for all V6ers
Here is an article from mopar mucsle mag
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/howto/40639_adjust_ignition_timing/
The mopar V6 comp advances timing 8 degrees and
adds more fuel
The IAT relocate 6" from body is another must do
if doing these things and you notice nothing or
if it runs worse you have other issues you need
to take a look at
When I hear people doing throttle bodies and 1.7's
and they say there is no diff first thing that
comes to me is a bad o2 sensor
On a stock truck unplug the o2 the light will
come on but the motor will still run fairly well
this is because it is so close to the stock table
do this on a moded motor and it will run very
crapy
If you have a lazy o2 no mod will help this is
the most important sensor of them all and should
be replaced at 60,000 as recomended with a good
sensor like the NGK NTK same as factory uses
no bosch or aftermarket sensors here
ngk.com for less than half the price buy dirrect
If this sensor is working properly your plugs will
have a light sandy to tan color if they don't
the air/fuel ratio is wrong and this is controled
by the o2
I have heard dealers tell people that they run
lean and the plugs should be white this is a pile
of crap and not true these modern techs no
nothing except what they are tought if the scan
shows nothing wrong in there mind there is nothing
wrong
I run into this stuff all the time from dealers
telling people crap because they don't know what
is going on
I have never run into a truck yet that a ping
problem could not be solved yet these dealers
are doing a quick fix pulling timing out making
the truck suck gas and run like a dog this is
wrong
I think they should all go back to school and
learn basic engine fungtions, ait/ fuel ratio
and reading spark plugs should be the first thing
they learn
not how to read a scanner
Larry
J&J Auto
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J and J Auto
GenII
11/13/2006
23:28:48
| RE: Timing
IP: Logged
Message:
I just want to add this
What is the first thing any dyno tunner looks at
HP and Torque of corse not
Air/Fuel Ratio
What do dyno tunners work with
Timing and Fuel
Also any speed shop with a poor performance prob
the first thing they do is pull the plugs and
read them
white to lean
black to rich
tan just right
cause
bad o2
low fuel pressure
If you want your truck to run great tthe fuel
needs to be there and the plugs need to be tan
if the o2 does not pick up the increased flow
no mod will help and it will run worse than it
did stock
even a timing advance burning more of the fuel
but the o2 not reading this will make it run bad
and even ping
A bad o2 can not always be seen with a scanner
or will it trip the mil light the only way to
see this is with an occiliscope wave pattern
O2 sensor if there is any doubt throw it out
spend the money and replace it
Like I said when people say that 2 of the best
mods that can be done TB and 1.7's make no diff
you have a serious problem here most likly the o2
or low fuel pressure
45psi or better is needed here
Larry
J&J Auto
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Bob Lincoln
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/14/2006
08:52:33
| RE: Timing
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Message:
Hey, Larry, what is the bolt size for the crank pulley, so I can turn the engine by hand to do the fuel sync mod? Someone here said 1 1/4" inches, but I bought that socket and it is too big. The crank bolt is the original, so I know it hasn't been changed to a size different from stock.
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J and J Auto
GenII
11/17/2006
23:06:18
| RE: Timing
IP: Logged
Message:
I always use my 32mm I beleave that is 1 3/16
1/16 under the 1 1/4
when you do this bob always turn clockwise if you
pass it up you will need to go around 2 more times
rotor aiming at #1 wire and just push back on
rotor lghtly towards you when standing in front
of truck this will take any little gear play
out that is there
from front back of button with cyl line if you
center button over cyl line that is 0
vibration damper TDC 0 comp stroke
the dist bolt is 1/2 a short wrench or a flex
socket will work and most times they are tight
15 foot pounds just good and snug with short wrench
turning dist clockwise retards or moves towards
minus, counter clock wise advances or moves
toward plus side
factory sets this anywhere from -6 to 0 and will
not set it past 0 but they run the best between
+3 to +6 better throttle response and low end
you should notice right away
Larry
J&J Auto
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Relf
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/19/2006
13:51:24
|  RE: Timing
IP: Logged
Message:
Hi Larry. My '98 V6 is pinging when I drive up even a slight incline. I did the crank sensor mod 6 months ago and had both o2 sensors replaced two summers ago. I'm not sure how many miles ago that was.
Where can I take the sensors to get them checked with an occilliscope?
I will pull my plugs to check the color of the ceramic.
I know my fuel pressure is at least 45psi.
Relf
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WkuJ
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/19/2006
21:55:19
| RE: Timing
IP: Logged
Message:
Are there instructions anywhere on how to do this crank sensor mod? My Dakota pings like crazy, this will make it worse, won't it?
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boomer
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/20/2006
08:47:46
| RE: Timing
IP: Logged
Message:
J and J
thanks a lot for the info, much appreciated. good to know that some people really do know their sh*t. I have a copy of the crank sensor mod on my computer, I just found a link to it on here yesterday. I'd like to see what the IAT mod is all about, anyone got any info on that??
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Joe M.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/22/2006
04:09:08
|  RE: Timing
IP: Logged
Message:
hey guys
the crank sensor mod will not help with the pinging issue
it adds a bit more low end torq. & also helps to improve MPG's
if the pinging is really bad (as Larry mentioned possible 02)
also look into plen/intake gasket
and/or EGR valve if so equiped
1 rang colder on the plugs can help get rid of minor pinging issues (worked great on mine)
NGK's FR5's (V Power)
or
auto lite 3923's
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Mike Stager
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/22/2006
08:23:19
| RE: Timing
IP: Logged
Message:
Am I crazy or am I blind, I only find one O2 sensor on my 1997 Dakota, behind the Cat. There is nothing on the Y pipe and I can't seem to find any wiring hanging where it should plug into an O2 sensor ( I have a check engine light on, since I bought the truck end of summer ). I know the 97 is the First Year of the OB2 trucks....just one of the oddball things Dodge did this year?
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JFH
GenII
11/22/2006
12:06:46
| RE: Timing
IP: Logged
Message:
'96 was the first year of the OBII. The body style is what changed in '97.
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/546400
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Adam
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/22/2006
15:50:16
| RE: Timing
IP: Logged
Message:
I got an O2 sensor right b4 and right after my Cat. Have you checked to see why your light is on yet? You can run down to Autozone or probably any auto parts place for that matter and they'll check for free.
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J and J Auto
GenII
11/23/2006
01:02:27
| RE: Timing
IP: Logged
Message:
All the obd2 96 and up have 2 o2's
in front of cat this controls air/fuel ratio
behind cat just tells the comp if the cat is
working right
A vac leak will cause a ping
another thing is carbon build up
You can also go to a 180 thermo if you live were
it does not get that cold like 0 and below
the stock thermo is a metered type and will run
195 200 the regular stant 195 will run 185
most of the 180's begain to open at 160 165 and
full open at 180 in cold weather they will run
165 168 and trip a code engine running to cold
to long the comp needs to see 170 or better
this will also help ping
You replaced the o2's did you use the bosch they
will begain to lean the system out between 10 to
30,000 miles they just do not work well with
the mopars go to ngk.com and get the good ngk
ntk sensors
I used to recomend the bosch and than strted
running into lots of performance issues and ping
finally found it was the bosch but this is not
noticeable hardly at all on a stock truck running
them on the dyno with a wide band o2 reading
aor/fuel ratio they were way off
they did not show bad with a scanner taping the
signal at the comp using an occiliscope it was
seen right away
most shops do not have this insturment to use
most high perf shops will
a good o2 will look like this cold start to
warm up
cold 4.8 volt
1 min 3.8
2 min 2.8
3 min start fluctuating
.2 to 1.02
have you ever noticed after sitting 15 20 min
you take off and your truck runs like crap than
all at once it takes off and runs fine this is
a lazy o2 they will stay at 4.8 4.5 volt than
not steping down just start fluctuating but
on a scanner it will show .3 .4 to .9 not good
a good sensor will be .2 and just over 1volt
This is another reason I recomend to all to get
there own scanner AutoXray obd1 $150 2's $200
and never visit a dealer or a garage again just
1 trip is the cost of the scanner
this holds true espesialy for those moding there
trucks being able to watch these sensors pulse
with on the injectors the o2 seeing the increased
flow and increasing the pulse width at the same
throttle position
worth its weight in gold
Larry
J&J Auto
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Relf
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/23/2006
16:06:27
|  RE: Timing
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks for that info. on the Bosch vs. NTK o2 sensors Larry. Also, I didn't know the AutoXray scanner could do that. I'm going to ask Santa for one of those!
Relf.
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Relf
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/23/2006
16:16:18
| RE: Timing
IP: Logged
Message:
Oh yeah, I found the NTK o2 sensors on NGK.com, for my '98 V6, and they offer two kinds-
OE identical or universal, which is 1/2 the cost of OE.
Is it alright for me to be a cheapskate and get the universal o2 sensors, or will I have to fool around with the connectors?
Thanks again and Happy T-day!
Relf.
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Adam
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/23/2006
17:50:41
| RE: Timing
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Message:
You'll probably just going to have to splice some wires. That's what I had to do but I'm not sure what kind I got..probably the Bosch since I got them from Autozone but I'm assuimg since it's universal you'll just have to splice wires is all.
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Joe M.
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/24/2006
10:50:20
| RE: Timing
IP: Logged
Message:
yea i;ve found the same
Univ. (the ones ive used) just arent direct plug ins
just had to splice the wires
and nothing wrong with saving a couple bucks
your buying a quality sensor so your not being a cheapskate, so if you got the time an know how
hell just go for it
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