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Shatto
Dodge Dakota
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3/29/2006
01:30:47

Subject: RE: Synthetic ATFs
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Tineka, Tineka.
Did Mr. Roark do all that work for nothing?

Mrs. Gee and Justin
Soon as I learn how I'll post the California Smog Test, just passed. The shop taps into DMV computers to verify the truck is who it says it is. The info goes from the Dynamometer to the computer in Sacramento. Government approved verification. Hmmm? can it be trusted?

How do I do it? Courier work. 200-300 miles a day, give or take.
Why do I do it? Madness. (It is easier being lazy than changing.)

How does the truck do it?
I use Amsoil Series 2000 0-30 weight oil. 7 quarts, run through around 14 feet of hose to an Amsoil BMK-13 Dual Remote Oil Filtration Kit hanging under the passanger side of the bed because there is no room in the engine bay. The spin on is an EaO 24, about twice the the stock Dakota size and rated for 25,000 miles. Change it and add a splash of oil to fill er back up. The Bypass is a BE-110 the largest for the set-up. It filters to 1 micron. Every 5 miles my oil is completely cleaned. Why big filters? If a little is good, more must be better... Actually the theory is more area= less pressure.
I use the Amsoil Triguard System, where I send oil samples at around 30,000 to 60,000 miles to Oil Analyzers, Inc. where they do spectrographic and other sophistocated tests to tell if the oil should be changed or continue to use. I often leave the truck running all day. Idling is very hard on the oil so I may end up changing at 60,000 miles. When I behave 100,000 miles, or more, between changes is not a problem.

Does the Lab work?
Around 100,000 miles the torque converter would lock and unlock as I drove on cruise control. Three dealers and two transmission shops said I needed a new transmission. The White Lab Coat guy at Oil Analyzers said there had been no sign of abnormal wear; that if there was a problem it wasn't mechanical. 400,000 miles later that transmission has given less trouble than the engine. A set of solenoids (electronics) vs a valve job and camshaft for the engine. The problem? weak throttle position sensor.
And, Justin, you want ATF-4. Sexier.

By the way, the way to really save is have your friendly Amsoil Dealer sponsor you so you will get his price. It's a decent business too. My sponsor has a comfortable living from the Amsoil business she inherited from her husband.

Hhhhmmmm
Obviously the oil. It's real!




Tineka
Dodge Dakota
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3/29/2006
03:01:45

RE: Synthetic ATFs
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Shatto ... what was all that crap about ... we dont care about your truck... we want PROOF of what amsoil says... and after all these posts still nothing........ amsoil is sounding more like crap every second



Matt
Dodge Dakota
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3/29/2006
14:50:01

RE: Synthetic ATFs
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Shatto,

Off-hand do you know what kind of vehicles that oil filteration system work with? Is it adaptatable to all makes and models? How hard is the 'application' to do?



TheGye
Dodge Dakota
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3/29/2006
14:52:55

RE: Synthetic ATFs
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sounds like a lot of extra for so little use. I use Pennsoil motor oil and change at the usual three thousand mark. not two shifty in my point of view. simple does it...



Shatto
Dodge Dakota
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3/30/2006
01:42:03

RE: Synthetic ATFs
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Matt,
Thank you.
This is the third vehicle the bypass filter has been on.
The beauty of the bypass system is you keep it. You'll want to change the hose as it gets stiff and formed to the installation of where it is installed. My hoses runs from the adaptor screwed on where the stock filter goes, the hoses twist around the coil spring and behind the A-Arm mount to the frame, up under the plastic wheel well liner and between the cab and frame top to behind the cab where they attach to the filter mount. Looks like the picture on the Amsoil site, only longer.
You can use any size filters and mount the system anywhere you can immigine. One Amsoil dealer has his mounted top of the cab high on a post behind his cab to advertise.
The Amsoil Corporate site has examples under "product information" then "By-Pass filters."

Tineka,
Thank you.
The reason I use the mileage of the truck is to establish some credability to what I say, and so other Dakota owners can see that their own truck is quite likely better than they thought. Remember you grew up thinking you had to change oil every 3,000 miles. The people who sell oil said so. And most thinking is anything over 100,000 miles is high mileage. Your grandparents might have been like mine who made the annual pilgramage to Detroit every year to pick up a new car. We call these old habits. With todays technology much of what was true not so long ago, is wrong.
At the Amsoil corporate site; click Product Information. Under product catagory list, click on Motor Oils. Pick one, click on it. You'll scroll through all the things it does then down at the bottom is the technical information. Your friendly scientist can explain.
There are places with other things that might interest. Such as Contact Amsoil. Ask them.
Then it occurs to me that it would be helpful if you defined what it is you would accept as proof.
Tell me how to get the smog cirtification from my scanner to this site and you'll have that to look at.

It's fun. Nite,guys.



Forseti
Dodge Dakota
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3/30/2006
17:15:35

RE: Synthetic ATFs
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I think Tineka is wanting independant test reports that show Amsoil meets or is better than ATF+4 standards. I myself could not find and info on that other than on amsoil website. And even there they dont say what lab did the tests, what tests they did, and what were the results. All I seem to find on Amsoil.com are claims that they are better with nothing to back it up. I do see a lot of "Performance Tests" but they dont say if they were done inhouse or by and outside lab. If it IS done in-house then I cant see anyone trusting the results due to Amsoil being bias.



AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
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3/30/2006
18:42:36

Amsoil Synthetic Universal ATF --- Amsoil Forum
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Did any of you asking for independent tests ask your current lubricant manufacturer for their tests. I think not. You simply trust them because you can buy them on the shelf vs. a catalog.

Let me tell you something. I buy many things "catalog only" because the quality is better than what I can find in the local store.
__________________________________________________

For "TheGye" and others changing their oil every 3k miles.

Oil at $65 a barrel, gasoline over $2 a gallon

REDUCE OUR DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL WITH AMSOIL

AMSOIL has 34 years of oil analysis data showing their oils provide extended interval oil drain service capabilities. Big oil companies can't argue with that data or explain it away. They would prefer that you "buy into the myth" of 3k mile oil changes because it adds profits to their bottom line.

AMSOIL offers extended drain intervals because we start with superior base oils and and a robust additive package which is properly balanced, blended, and capable of performing for extended drains.

Now the entire industry is moving in that direction. It has been published that automotive manufacturers will be recommending extended drain intervals of up to 15,000 miles in the near future (they already are in Europe) ... because that's what consumers want.

Amsoil's Extended Oil Drain Interval: It is the right thing to do for the consumer, for the environment, and a way to reduce american dependence on foreign oil.

Longer Drain Intervals = less oil used.

__________________________________________________

REDUCE OUR DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL WITH AMSOIL

Industry tests have shown improved fuel economy of 2 - 5% in vehicles using synthetic lubricants. Many AMSOIL customer testimonials tell of even greater savings. If all vehicles in America used AMSOIL synthetic motor oil, gear lubes and drive train fluids, we would save enough fuel to eliminate our need for thousands of barrels of oil.

As mentioned earlier, there is another way to reduce oil usage. AMSOIL synthetic motor oils are designed for extended drain intervals and reduce the amount of oil used by as much as 80%.

Fewer oil changes means less oil used.

__________________________________________________

You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking below.

Become an Amsoil Preferred Customer (much like joining a Costco) and buy at Synthetic Wholesale Warehouse Prices (the same price I pay as an Amsoil Dealer).

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__________________________________________________

You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking below.



Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com

AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products



Matt
Dodge Dakota
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3/30/2006
20:38:07

RE: Synthetic ATFs
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Thank you shatto for that reply. You seem proud and respectful for what that product represents. And you should be, you have beating the status quo and gotten 500-thousand miles from it. In a strange way its unconventional to try something else when the way you are already doing 'works.' Its almost a rarity to see someone take a risk these days.
I am going to look into these amsoil products and see what else is out there. I have checked out their website and low and behold, its fits almost too easily into the advertising world of american commerce. I think its a indication when many of the posters here are vehemently skepitcal and itching for 'PROOF.' I think many of us are tired of the advertisings out there that capitalize on the consumers lack of knowledge of what they are buying. Its hard to judge a company and its products just off of the image they portray through their advertising. And in fact, its probably not 'wise' either. If you do figure out how to post those miles its maybe a little advertising to some but at least its 'proof.'

Either way, if you don't get to posting those miles I can honestly say that I am a little less skeptical than I was before, and in fact I may be the one here who is off base with idea that cars need their oil changed at 3000 miles mandatory! Cuz, in some sense, that is a blank statement if you don't have the backing or proof that shows you that that is correct. I think a oil analysis is where the consumer has been going wrong. Lacking the initiative to have oil analysis they pay for their withdraw and maybe a little off in their thinking that oil is only good for 3K. In short, things ARE changing its just hard for the people to change with them. Just my looong two cents.

Take care,

-Matt



Forseti
Dodge Dakota
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3/30/2006
21:25:02

RE: Synthetic ATFs
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I understand all the info you have given in the last statement ... BUT I do have to ask about one thing you said..."AMSOIL has 34 years of oil analysis data showing their oils provide extended interval oil drain service capabilities."... I havent seen any of that data on the amsoil website.. who did the analysis?



Shatto
Dodge Dakota
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3/31/2006
02:16:38

RE: Synthetic ATFs
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Matt,
Thank you.

Just a thought; The "Minimum Wage" and changing oil every 3,000 miles. Why not make the minimum wage $6.00, $7.23, $18.55, $96.45 an hour? If changing oil every 3,000 miles is good wouldn't every 500 miles be great?

I was first introduced to the concept of extended oil life from a copy of a letter, document, speech or something on paper from the president of Shell Oil to whomever. Not me. He said there was no reason oil could not last indefinately if it could be kept clean. I was in my teens so I read it fifty years ago. Maybe that explains not remembering accurately. Obviously a major seller of oil isn't going to trumpet something that will cause lower sales. But it was, I think we'll agree, truthful. Problem is keeping regular oil clean. Sludge, Acid, Varnish and assorted crud sticking to the insides of a conventionally lubricated engine is the result of the refining process continuing from the engine heat. They introduced Detergent Oils to combat sludge, keeping stuff in suspension until the filter grabbed it. But even with the best cleaning the additive package of friction modifiers, antacids and other stuff couldn't be kept up. That was when I began using the old toilet paper roll oil filter. Then I bumped into an independant Amsoil Dealer and furthered my education.

Synthetic oil is molecularly different; Atoms held together in different order than petrolium oil Atoms. Because it is geneticly engineered it can be designed to perform better. Boy, that sounds good! That is why it outperforms any conventional oil.

Why do manufacturers put synthetic oil in their cars at the factory? In 98 my new Dakota had it.
The vaunted Corvette specifies Mobil 1.
Ask your local jet mechanic what lubrication they must use.

I Googled Amsoil and 3 down is the Amsoil Corporate Website. In the grey section right under the header, I clicked Product Information then scrolled down to the box and clicked Amsoil Performance Tests. For fun I clicked Comparative Motor oil Testing and found a bit of information.

Gee, I just Googled "four ball wear test" and, BAMMO! there it is. Four manufacturers and the machine. Five down is Amsoils report of using the machine to compare Amsoil oil against other oils.

Wow! Google Extended Oil Change. Go ahead, do it.



CALLMECRAZY
Dodge Dakota
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3/31/2006
09:37:29

RE: Synthetic ATFs
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BUSH HATES AMSOIL BECAUSE IF EVERYONE USED
IT HE AND HIS PAPPY WOULD SELL LESS CRUDE.



tasteslikepee
Dodge Dakota
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4/01/2006
06:49:56

RE: Synthetic ATFs
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Forseti


Amsoil = 34 years of oil analysis data, NO FTC complaints or fines, NO BBB complaints or fines, no gov't complaints or fines and you can't say that about any other oil company. i checked.


everyone i talk to knows amsoil makes great oils, atf and gear lube. i see amsoil everywhere at the racetracks.

What do you ask from miller beer when you buy their beer? independent tests?

OH YES I FORGOT ... you have the TV commercial independent test results. The LESS FILLING / NO, TASTES GREAT independent tests!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

grow up and stop flaming the site sponsors.



Justin
Dodge Dakota
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4/01/2006
12:37:59

RE: Synthetic ATFs
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tasteslikepee, thanks for that report on amsoil's history. that does say something about the satisfaction of their customers through and through....34 years. but maybe Foresti wasn't trying to intentionally flame amsoil and instead just being introspective of their claims. I could be wrong. Just my take.



Shatto
Dodge Dakota
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4/01/2006
13:43:02

RE: Synthetic ATFs
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Callmecrazy
What you say sounds good, if your intent is arousing emotions.
Logic asks; why didn't either Bush simply take over all the oil fields? We immediately gave control of Iraq's ffields back to them, making many wonder why we aren't using them to defer the cost of eleminating the thug government of Saddam.
With what we have there right now we could eradicate all the military of all the countries of the Middle East and still not have to use anywhere near all of our power.
"It is easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission." With that in mind, you might be thankful our president is adult enough, mature and far thinking enough to institute the plan he has insted of turning most of Iraq into a sheet of glass, and taking the incredibly infantile and continued hassle from the Liberals, Media, Hate America crowd and plain ignorant.
In other words; what you wrote was cute but not funny.



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