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Milton
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2005
20:20:00
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 Subject: Help with Dakota
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Hopefully someone here can help me.
I have a 92 Dakota that is running poorly. This is an intermittant problem. It may only do it once a day, or it may do it every 10 minutes.
The problem-Truck runs fine, then when I slow down the idle starts to flux and if I don't rev the engine it will die. When I try to accellerate, the engine will get up to 2000 RPMs, the start to buck, rattle, lug and backfire. Eventually I am able to get the RPMs up to 3000 RPM and suddenly the truck taks off and runs fine. May or may not repeat on the remainder of the trip.
What I have done-
Changed plugs and wires.
Replaced distributor, cap, rotor, and pick up.
Replaced O2 sensor.
Cleaned TB.
Cut off Cat.
Changed fuel filter.
Finally, I changed the EGR valve. Truck ran great for 2000 miles, but is acting up again and getting worse.
What do you think? New EGR valve a POS, or something worse?
Thanks guys,
Milton
92 Dakota
3.9L
5-speed
203,000 Miles
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93dak4x4
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2005
20:58:09
| RE: Help with Dakota
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Most likely the distributor itself. The bushings go bad and it has those characteristics. Take off the cap and try to check for play.
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Milton
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2005
21:20:27
| RE: Help with Dakota
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Tried changing the distributor, plus the cap, rotor, and pick up. No change.
Thanks,
Milton
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
9/04/2005
21:46:07
| RE: Help with Dakota
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throttle position sensor and/or idle air control solenoid.
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p2gee
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2005
23:17:24
|  RE: Help with Dakota
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With 200k on the clock I would be inclined to check timing chain or fuel pump for problems.
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Milton
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2005
23:27:52
| RE: Help with Dakota
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Fuel pump changed at apx 160K. Changed twice actually, as fist was bad from vendor.
Have not pulled the timimg chain and gears, as the problem is random and only happens between 2000-3000 RPM.
Thanks,
Milton
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Milton
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2005
18:48:52
| RE: Help with Dakota
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Swapped the idle air control solenoid today. Still FUBAR.
I'll try the throttle position sensor next. If that does not fix it, then it is off to the Dodge dealer for a diagnostic scan.
Thanks,
Milton
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93dak4x4
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2005
20:08:52
| RE: Help with Dakota
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I would say crank position sensor. Yours is the plastic variety being from 92. Mine was actually cracked when I changed it, It hadn't acted up yet but when I put my new one on it loosened up once and gave me a problem similar to what you are saying.
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Milton
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2005
20:22:10
| RE: Help with Dakota
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I had not thought of the crank sensor. One more thing to look at. Good thing this truck is just a beater/backup and not my everyday driver anymore.
Thanks,
Milton
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ocso214
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2005
12:29:44
| RE: Help with Dakota
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Where is the crank sensor located? How hard is it to change? My truck is running bad to. I will be driving down the road and it will just cut out. It doesn't do it all the time though, sometimes not at all. I have changed the timing chain, cap and rotor, tps, plugs, wires, and the fuel filter. When it does it it's only for like a second. It does it when I pass people I have noticed, not right when I smash on the pedal though...? I am stumped, any help would be great, thanks.
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ocso214
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2005
14:27:14
| RE: Help with Dakota
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Oh, I also replaced the O2 sensor as well.
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2005
16:50:06
| RE: Help with Dakota
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Crank position sensor would probably cause the engine to just stall, and if it was failing, would probalby result in an extended crank on startup. That is not always the case though.
I will see if I can look up where the crankshaft position sensor is on your truck tonight when I get home if nobody has answered by then.
One more thing- how did your spark plugs look? Were they fouled badly, did they indicate that anything may be wrong with the fuel system?
This problem could possibly be the result of a split vaccum hose somewhere too.
Based on the age of your truck, a new PCV valve would probably be wise if it has not been done recently- probably won't fix your problem, but it won't hurt either, and since they're fairly cheap in the aftermarket you might invest in one.
There's also a lot of variables with the quality of parts you installed (and quality of install- not trying to be offensive, but not knowing you personally always leaves the "reasonable doubt"). Some aftermarket O2 sensor create problems with calibration (although I would think Check Engine light would probably light over that), it's possible you have installed a faulty EGR valve, etc.
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ocso214
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2005
17:23:06
| RE: Help with Dakota
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I haven't installed a EGR valve yet... I am pretty good at this stuff though, my grandfather was a mechanic. I hung around the garage some. I am stumped though. I did replace the pcv valve a while back. The O2 sensor is Bosch, and didn't make the problem worse. I did reset the computer as well. Thanks for the info man. I am going to replace the coil, IAC, MAP sensor, Crank sensor as well. The plugs were pretty bad come to think of it. The thing has the original fuel pump as well. It is kinda acting like it did when I had to change the timing chain, without the sound of the chain slapping. My friend says it could be a loose ground wire to. I am desperate for help. I wish someone could just drive it. Even then sometimes it will happen and some times it won't.
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ocso214
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2005
17:26:05
| RE: Help with Dakota
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Also my windshield washer fluid light has been on for ever. Even after taking off the ground wire and leaving it off for about 2 min.'s. What is the diff. between maint. required and check engine...? Neither of which are on just curious.
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Milton
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2005
19:50:53
| RE: Help with Dakota
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Craig-Thanks. I agree that the crank sensor is a remote possibility. I kinda feel I got a bad EGR valve from the parts store. When I installed the new one I got 2000 miles of perfect running. Do you know a way to test them?
The plugs in the right bank were all fouled. The left bank looked good. This all satarted after I loaned the truck to a friend who got the oil changed with synthetic oil. The lube guys told him it was better for high mileage engines. Crap leaked out everywhere.
Oh, I have been a C-130 aircraft mechanic for almost 20 years. Does that make me qualified to swap parts on a 13 year old truck?
Ocso214- Thanks for hijacking the thread.
Thanks,
Milton
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Milton
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2005
19:57:36
| RE: Help with Dakota
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Forgot. I did check the PCV valve, and it is good. Also, I checked all the vaccum hoses and fixed any questionable connections.
Thanks,
Milton
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2005
19:57:54
| RE: Help with Dakota
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Previous experience with an '88 dakota would suggest an EGR valve may be what you need. A TPS is also suspect because you say the symptoms aren't consistent, and occur during partial-throttle acceleration. This would make the truck buck and surge, but then so would a stuck EGR valve.
It's difficult for me to really tell what is wrong with your truck. My dad was a mechanic, and I have been around the garage since I was about 6 years old, but we were an independent shop, so we worked on basically any year, make, or model of car you could imagine. Needless to say, I cannot be an automotive encylopedia.
Your symptoms would most likely indicate EGR valve or a TPS, OR vaccum issue- there's probably about a million different hoses snaking around your engine compartment courtesey of Uncle Sam. Now picture 1 million tangled rubber hoses that are now over 13 years old. If you have an automotive vaccum pump you could check and see if the EGR valve is functioning properly- I can't give you an exact procedure on that though- I have not worked on a '92 before.
Ground wire COULD cause those concerns, but I would not look there first.
Keep in mind that "resetting" the computer can also cause the truck to run rough until it can "relearn" its proper programming.
Might check on that Air filter as well- that probably isn't the cause in this case, but it can't hurt, and it's cheap insurance.
When you said the plugs looked "pretty bad" can you be specific about that? Were they especially oily, carbon fouled, were the insulators broken? It could be an important clue as to what is wrong with your truck.
Have you put a timing light on it? I can get you a procedure on how to hook one up for your truck if you are uncertain of how to do so. Timing specs are available on your Vehicle Emissions Controls Information (VECI) label. If you do not have a light, you will have to decide what to do- a good light is very expesive, a cheap light isn't worth much to anyone though- that's a call you would have to make if you don't have one.
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2005
20:04:27
| RE: Help with Dakota
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I just realized that Osco didn't start this thread!!! That will kind of mess up my posts and who they were intended for I guess.
Synthetic oil isn't what caused this problem I don't believe. Is it leaking oil from the oil filter? Frequently the apes at quick lubes don't pay very close attention to what's going on. When removing the old filter, they neglect to check the filter mounting for the old Gasket!!!! The double- gasket will undoubtedly leak oil- I did that once when my dad was not supervising me when I was about 12 years old or so. Needless to say he wasn't happy with me.
Well anyway good luck. I assume you fly planes too? I've been working on a private license for a while now.
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Milton
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2005
21:07:20
| RE: Help with Dakota
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Craig-I am leaning towards the EGR due to the backfiring. However I did have a recall done on the TPS when it was new. Would stall when stopping.
Don't have a vaccum pump, but I know the local shop will. Maybe time to get a second set of eyes on it.
The plugs on the right bank were caked with black, oily soot. I figure that the valve seals were worn, and the thin synthetic migrated into those cylinders. The oil had came out from all over the motor, and it looked as if someone had smeard vasoline all over the pan.
I did put a timing light on it after I changed the distributor. It checked out to spec. I changed the distributor because the phase interruptor was loose, and I figure at 200K I might as well change the whole assembly.
I too did the oil filter double gasket deal. My Dad (35 years fixing airplanes) always stressed check for that. Well, in my 20s, I thought I had never seen one stick to the block, so it must never happen. Right? Well, I changed my oil, and when I back out of the garage I see a big puddle of oil. Yep that bit me in the butt. I am glad I caught it at the house, and not on the interstate.
Nope, I do not drive the planes, just fix what the crew breaks. I spent the first half of my career fixing the cargo version of the C-130. These are big, four propeller cargo aircraft that have been built since 1954. The last 7 years I have been working the gunship model (AC-130H and AC-130U. These have big WW2 era artillary pieces sticking out of the left side, and are very effective at whacking the Taliban. I guess that makes us a bunch of Taliwhackers.
Thanks,
Milton
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2005
21:40:13
| RE: Help with Dakota
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Yes, the synthetic can sometimes leak more than a regular motor oil. Older porsches are especially suceptable to leaking like a sieve. Generally if yo ustart your motor out young on synthetic this will not happen. Only fouling 1 bank would point to some leaky valve seals, as a PCV valve failing would probalby do it to both banks. I had an '88 that was fixed of similar symptoms by means of an EGR valve.
This brings back a memory I was just discussing with my Dad. I remember having a 1989 Jeep Cherokee in the shop. It would randomly buck and sputter while under acceleration. Sometimes it would do good for days at a stretc, and my dad would hand it back to the owner, but within a week the car was always back. After throwing a lot of parts into the car, we determined a cracked power wire to the computer was causing the problem intermittently. It was probably the worst diagnostic nightmare problem I can remember for a long time. Those old jeeps used the french Ducileer (unsure of spelling) engine management system, which was a pain in the ass to deal with- much unlike most of the earlier Chrysler computers which are rather easy to get data from.
Anyway good luck getting everything straghtened out with your truck! Hope you can keep those C130s in the air so we can keep kicking ass overseas!!
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Milton
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2005
22:04:33
| RE: Help with Dakota
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Craig-The guys and gals that work for us kick some major ass in maintaining these aircraft that are older than any of them. These are some of the most complex weapons systems in the world, and the guys on the ground sleep well because they know Spectre rules the night.
Thanks,
Milton
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