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12:03:32 - 04/29/2024
V6 Dakotas
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jagbor
Dodge Dakota
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7/21/2005
11:10:17
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 Subject: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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I'm in the process of trying to get some more hp for my 1990 ex-cab 2wd dakota since it only has 125HP. Vern & gen1dak-we have spoken before but I now have the opportunity to buy the following pkg for about $600 US:
1/ heads-matched porting & bowl work with bigger valves-1.88 intake & 1.6 exhaust
2/harland sharp valve trai-roller rockers 1.7
3/flat tappet camshaft-p4452810
-hydr. lift .430/.450
-dur. 260/268
-overlap 44
-centreline-110
4/ mopar perf. aluminum 4 bbl intake-#4452114 with card spacer for 390cfm 4bbl carb
5/ chrome valve covers to match
What do you guys think of this pkg? is it a good deal? What would you pay for this pkg? What kind of HP gain is realistic? Can my "bottom end" deal with these upgrades? Where can I get a 390cfm carb? Any other issues/concerns I need to consider before installation of this pkg?
Thanks for all your help and have a great day!
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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7/21/2005
21:09:59
|  RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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1.7 rockers for an LA engine? Hmmm, that's a rarity. If it's 1.7, you're looking at valve lift numbers of .487/.510. Make sure you use valvesprings that are up to the task. That should really help the midrange and top-end HP especially with the head work. Price looks pretty reasonable, especially if the stuff is in good shape. Bottom-end can handle it. LA-based bottom-ends have always been good to at least 6400rpm. If you plan on running it a lot at high rpm, it's always a wise investment to add high-strength con-rod bolts. Occasional blasts are fine on the stockers. Hell, my first engine got all re-used bolts (1969/318) and it got 5,800 rpm run-ups several times a day. It never broke. Be sure to add high-strength pushrods. Power gains will be huge over the stock rating. Keep in mind, the Magnum V6 went to 175HP with better-flowing heads and slightly more cam (.432"), so you should have some very good numbers. I'd think a 500cfm carb would be better suited to your setup. The Slant Six guys often use the 500cfm carb when hopping them up, and it's 225 cubes, so your Six-gun can easily handle it. Get one anywhere....Summit, Jegs, etc. You may find your bottom-end power just a bit soft, but a slightly looser converter or gears will solve that. I'd go with the converter if you have an automatic, but only after evaluating the new package to see if ya really need it.
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jagbor
Dodge Dakota
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7/22/2005
00:05:20
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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Thanks gen1dak for the info-the guy I'm buying the pkg from says his dad owns a racing/perf shop & he has a 1988 Dakota that he has placed a "built" 340 into-I bet that goes like stink! You indicate that with this pkg & a 500cfm carb, I should "have some very good numbers." Are you thinking 20HP gain? 30? or ? Should I be getting a wet and dry compression test to see if this pkg. would be worth it? Any specific manufacturer of carb you recommend?
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Orange
Dodge Dakota
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7/22/2005
02:23:29
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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make sure all those parts are for the pre mag motor i have the engine swap kit to drop in a v8 let me know something. monnoracing@yahoo.com
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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7/22/2005
11:31:39
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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On the HP front, I hesitate to toss out exact numbers, especially on a V6 since I'm more familiar with what a Mopar smallblock V8 would produce, but let's start there. With this package, on a 318, you'd see an easy 350 HP (that's about 45hp per cylinder) at around 6 thousand rpm. With an 800 carb and 2.02 intake valves, a 318 will snag 400hp! So, just using the hp per cylinder on that formula, you're looking at 270HP at the flywheel, give or take, but even if we go more conservative and say 40hp per cylinder (it's a simplistic way of looking at it, but is a good ballpark gauge), you have 240 at the flywheel, and I'd think you'd exceed that. I mean, 239 cubes.....if you can't snag at least 1HP per cube with that package something's seriously wrong. The smaller carb would limit max HP, but would help prop up the low-end power and improve responsiveness, which would help fuel economy some. The 500 carb would help get max power, but you're only talking a few HP either way, in exchange for a few lbs torque.
The package is a worthy one. On the compression tests, I'd be more concerned with that to help determine cylinder leakdown...to determine overall health of the rings. You're gonna be running it a lot harder with the mods, so if in doubt, freshen things up first.
On carbs, I tell ya, it's like paradise these days. So many good ones to choose from. Personally, from a standpoint of just bolt it on and it works, I lean towards the Edelbrock AFB carb. They make a 500 and the things just flat out work. Tuning is simple, and the design is a proven one. The price is very reasonable as carbs go these days. Holley and the Demon carbs are great (the outstanding quality of the Demons has made Holley tighten up and improve...not that they were bad to begin with), but tend to require a better working knowledge to get tuned just right. If you go that way, maybe that mechanic will toss in a free tuning on the carb. 340 in a Dak? Stink? You ain't lyin'. Oh, by the way, my '89 had a 360 Magnum with a nasty cam and 750 Carter (the original AFB maker) Comp Series AFB atop an M1 intake. That's backed up by the A518 tranny with TCI Trans Scat kit, and 3.90 gears. Can we say smokin'? ;-D
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jagbor
Dodge Dakota
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7/22/2005
21:34:26
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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Thanks again gen1dak-I'm not looking to peel the tires off of my truck but am looking for a little more HP to help me pull a 1300lb Boler/Trillium trailer. Sounds like this pkg. should do it. Do you have a price on the
Edelbrock AFB 500 cfm carb? is there anything else I would to do either before I install this carb or after to make sure it all works?
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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7/23/2005
00:33:41
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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I'm wondering what ignition you'll be using.
At Summit the manual choke version is $215, electric choke is $270.
You'd also need the Chrysler throttle lever adapter, $15 bucks or so.
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jagbor
Dodge Dakota
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7/23/2005
19:02:20
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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Gen1dak-
1/ re the carb-how do I know if the manual or electric choke option is the one for my 90 Dakota? does one work beter than the other? are there advanatages of one over the other?
2/ Cyrysler throttle lever adapter-what is this & what does it do?
3/ I'm beginning to see that just buying the above pkg doesn't simply mean that I get it all installed & away I go-there is always more to do/or more parts to purchase etc to make sure all the parts are compatable.
Is there anythng else you can think of? My guess is that by the time I get all the parts/have them installed etc, I will be looking at $2000 Canadian. Is there a less costly way to gain 50HP? Maybe just removing my heads & doing a 3 angle valve job/porting & polishing would give me enough additional HP tomake pulling the 1300lb trailer easier? Any ideas on this?
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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7/24/2005
00:58:16
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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The throttle adapter is just a little plate that bolts to the standard throttle on the carb. It allows the placement of the rod that the tranny kickdown rod attaches to. Actually, I just made one for myself using a 3-inch long piece of mild steel flat bar from the local hardware (Lowes) store. Cost a couple bucks. Made 2 bends to make a square cornered U-shaped piece measuring approximately 1 1/4"x1/2"x 1 1/4". Drill a couple holes, bolt it on, and it's ready. I'll see if I can find a link that clearly displays the adapter, then you'll see what I mean.
Cleaning up your heads will help, but the stock cam is so tiny, you really need to do something about that. You'll see much better results if you have a cam that can make use of the improved head flow. Adding a set of 1.6:1 rockers would increase lift, but not as effectively as the cam you mentioned. Keep in mind that the cam you listed is a flat tappet cam, so do not use it with roller lifters.
A cheaper way? Crossmember kit for LA V8 from engine-swaps.com, or make your own mounts. Drop a TBI 318 in place of the V6. Add an electric fan for the radiator and be done with it. Even cheaper? Get a carb'd 318 pulled from a wreck. They're always popping up. Do the electronic ignition conversion from Mopar Perf......easy, and can be had for under $200. Add a fuel pressure regulator and electric fan. Done. Carrol Shelby did the same thing with 1500 1989 V6 Dakota Sports. They got a 318, electric fan, 3.90 gears, and the tranny was tweaked for firmer shifts. That's it, and it worked fine.
A manual choke requires a cable running into the cab so that you can manually actuate the choke when cold-starting. Then, once warmed up, you open the choke and drive as you normally would. An electric unit does the job for you with an electrically heated metal coil spring in a housing mounted on the carb. The electric is seamless, and you are totally unaware of them. They will eventually burn out. The manual requires your attention when starting and warming up, but last pretty much forever.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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7/24/2005
01:26:54
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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An excellent throttle rod adapter link.....
http://www.bouchillonperformance.com/BPEtkdcInstructions.htm
Link to adapter for $9.98 US.
http://www.bouchillonperformance.com/BPEtkdc.asp
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jagbor
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2005
11:10:10
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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Gen1dak-is it my understanding that if I buy the pkg. then I should also look at upgrading the ignition? Any suggestions? What components of the ignition will need to be replaced/beefed up?
plugs? wires? coil?
Also-the rockers in the pkg. are "roller" rockers so because the camshaft is a flat tappet one, are you saying they cannot be used with it? Is this correct or not?
In terms of RPM's, my truck rarely goes above 4000 when I am towing the trailer.
Thanks again for your patience & knowledge.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2005
13:25:36
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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Regarding the roller rockers....they are fine to use. I'm referring to the tappets. The tappets (hydraulic roller lifters) in your engine are rollers, for use with a roller cam. You must remove them and replace with flat tappet lifters in order to use a flat tappet cam. At a glance, flat tappet cams and rollers look the same, but they're not, and mixing one with the other will result in an engine disaster. Not to worry, flat tappets are much cheaper than rollers. Again, the roller rockers are fine, the roller lifters are not. This will also require longer pushrods, but the mechanic you're buying from can point you in the right direction there, maybe include them in the package?
On the ignition, the problem is that you're removing the computer controls. Your stock distributor will not The solution is easy for V8 owners (using the MP electronic ignition package, which also has instructions on what wires to splice to keep the other electronic functions of the computer operational), but I'm not sure Mopar even offers a V6 solution. Gonna have to look into that. Again, since the mechanic had this package in his before the 340, ask him what ignition he used, and if he continued to use the computer for alternator/voltage regulator, or if he went with an external regulator.
8mm wires are good. As for the coil, etc, it's gonna depend on what else is done regarding the distributor. Genreally, a better coil is a win-win situation regardless of the other components.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2005
23:13:07
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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OK, I found the ignition kit you need. P4529402 has everything you need, including a distributor with a performance ignition curve, control box, etc. The instructions cover nypassing the AutoShutDown relay (splicing a couple wires) so the computer will remain functional as far as running the AC and alternator/voltage regulator, etc., but you are free to set up the engine as you wish without concerns over the computer.
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jagbor
Dodge Dakota
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7/26/2005
11:10:51
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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Thanks Gen1dak-where can I get the ignition kit you mention? Any idea on the price of it? does it make a difference if m,y truck does not have A/C?
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Doug
Dodge Dakota
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7/26/2005
21:06:56
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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U-WRENCH-IT AUTO PARTS OF VIRGINIA BEACH LLC
100 SYKES AVENUE, VIRGINIA BEACH, VIRGINIA, 23454, USA
(757) 417 0848
sseyler1@hotmail.com
All engines $150 import and foreign. All you have to do is go there and get it. I got my intake parts and TB here.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2005
00:35:17
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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No difference on AC,
http://www.bouchillonperformance.com/CLEARANCE.htm....for the ignition kit, but hurry. This item is listed as obsolete. I'm sure there are other solutions out there if needed.
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vern
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2005
05:56:33
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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thats a fair price for the pkg
but you can get close to the same hp and better low tq with a cam from hughes $200 and valve springs $80,with some head and intake porting
for about the same money as the pkg and without the added cost of carb,ignition etc
1.7 rockers don,t sound right for a premag
just my two cents
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jagbor
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2005
11:02:34
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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Vern-tell me more please! Are you saying that if I pulled my heads off and had them ported and polished + added a new camshaft from Hughes engines + new valve springs, I could gain just as much HP but not have to worry about buying a new carb/new ignition etc. What kind of HP do you think I would gain following this route? What other things do I need to consider?
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vern
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2005
17:45:23
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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i,ll say 30-35hp with more bottom end tq
with headers or a freer flowing exh.another 5-8hp
and some porting on your tb will help[i,ve done this does help on my 89]you can put the 318 injectors in from a 88-91 more fuel,it will that your pcm about 300-500mi for the pcm to learn,run good
set your timing to 12-13 degrees
these things should get you in the mag hp range
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jagbor
Dodge Dakota
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7/28/2005
11:10:51
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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Vern-
1/ any recommendations and or specs on the camshaft from Hughes? I'm assuming it will be custom ground since there does not seem to be too much stuff out there for 3.9L engines.
2/ regarding the TB-is it better to get mine ported vs. buying a 48mm F&B or ? Any other ways to get a few extra HP out of my truck?
3/ porting & polishing my heads-any recommendations on what a performance shop should/shouldn't do to them?
If I could get the ~ 40 HP you indicate, that will be a 30% increase in power which should help alot.
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vern
Dodge Dakota
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7/28/2005
18:21:00
| RE: Larry, Vern or gen1dak, socaldak
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hughes only has two cams that will work with the stock pcm,these are regrounds,they will take your old cam in exchange
your throttle body you,ll have to port yourself or find someone who will,no one makes one for these trucks
most good shops should be able to do you right with a three angle valve job and open the pockets around the valves
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