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Bill Benson
Dodge Dakota
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9/30/2004
18:17:26

Subject: 91' V-6 engine very dirty
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My 1991 Dakoda I bought from a guy who never changed the oil, so it seems.
When I got it I had the oil changed right away, the new oil is getting dirty after only 350 miles and I was thinking of doing an engine flush, but I hear some horror stories about the flushes loosning up the crud and plugging the pick up screen and blowing the engine.
For that reason I am not to keen on trying to flush it.
My oil pressure reads low toward the lower portion of the normal range when driving along and drops below that in idel, sometimes the oil warning light comes on.I added about 8 oz. of Marvel Mystery oil and the oil pressure seemed to came up a little.
I know the engine is dirty, because reaching into the oil filler hole in the valve cover with my finger it is black and thick gook.
Could I flush it by pouring kerosene through with enging off to get the crud off the bottom of the oil pan?



CP
Dodge Dakota
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10/04/2004
09:21:19

RE: 91' V-6 engine very dirty
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Definitely flush. I use STP engine flush which directs you to warm up the engine (drive for 20 min). Park the vehicle and idle the motor. Pour the whole can into the crankcase and allow the engine to idle for 5 minutes. Drain the oil. Change the filter and add fresh oil. Repeat once a year. If you still have low oil P, buy a new oil pan gasket and drop the oil pan. I'm guessing the oil strainer is clogged. Clean the pan well and inspect the mainshaft bearings, seals, and oil pump while your in there. Easy! Change the oil every 3000 to 3500.



Wal
Dodge Dakota
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10/04/2004
10:23:02

RE: 91' V-6 engine very dirty
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I'll take the counter-point; do not flush. You have too much crap in there and flushing will just move it to a new more undesirable home. Change your oil and filter now. Check in 500mi and prolly change again. I'd use something with a lot of detergent like Shell Rotella or Mobil Delvac. This will slowly but effectively and gently clean the engine instead of dislodging big hunks of sludge and creating blockages.

Wal




Chip B.
Dodge Dakota
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10/04/2004
11:16:46

RE: 91' V-6 engine very dirty
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Wally's right, and besides, low oil pressure on an old, worn out motor isn't the apocalipse. Change the oil a couple of times and call it a day.



Cyalume
Dodge Dakota
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10/04/2004
11:41:10

RE: 91' V-6 engine very dirty
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With the miles on the engine, I would also recommend against the flush. If any of the seals or gaskets in the engine have deteriorated, the only reason they may not be leaking is the crud built up over them. All modern oils have detergents in them to dissolve that kind of build up in the engine, but may not get rid of it in the little holes that the build up is filling, preventing a leak. I would recommend changing the oil and filter every 300 to 500 miles a few times, and see how that takes care of your problem. Also, if the oil youre taking out looks dirty, thats a good thing. It means that the new oil is doing its job. Regular Havoline oil, no synthetic, has good detergents in it, and would work well for you. Its also cheap. I dont know about the Rotella, its advertised for diesel engines, so it might have a lot of detergents too. We have an older couple come to our garage and have up put it in their Cadillac, and the Chevy dealership recommended it. I also agree with getting another oil pan gasket, and dropping the pan to clean it. That will make the oils job a lot easier. Good luck!



Wal
Dodge Dakota
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10/04/2004
13:31:20

RE: 91' V-6 engine very dirty
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good point on dropping the pan!

Rotella is a C grade oil and is approved for use in regular auto engines. I use it in the trucks and motorcycles because it also doesn't make my wet clutch slip. I use both the 15w-40 dino and the 5w/40 synthetic. Good stuff, cheap, and sold everywhere (Walmart, Pep Boys, etc.).



Bill Benson
Dodge Dakota
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10/04/2004
13:36:35

RE: 91' V-6 engine very dirty
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Thanks guys for the information, I have it changed at my local Quick lube, they use Quaker state 10-30. I can change my own oil so that is not a problem, but dropping the pan would be, looks like a big job I would not want to tackle, I was thinking of going to 10-40 oil being the truck now has 183K miles on it, but the Haynes book says truck uses 10-30, could I use the heaver oil on this high milage engine?
Also when I bought the truck the thermostat was wide open and running cold, now that I have it running at 195 the oil pressure is lower.
I will change the oil very soon.
Thanks again, I appreciate it.



Cyalume
Dodge Dakota
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10/04/2004
13:49:10

RE: 91' V-6 engine very dirty
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Removing the oil pan isnt that bad of a job, just a messy one. Just drain all of the oil, then break the bolts loose from the pan that the oil drain plug is in. Make sure to get another gasket, and have some RTV gasket sealer. You can clean it with any kind of solvent, even get a can of that engine flush, and pour in the pan, let it sit a minute, then scrub away. Rinse it out, but make sure to get it dry. Scrap the old gasket off of the engine and the pan, then apply a thin line of RTV to the engine and to the pan, and line the gasket up and stick it to the pan. The RTV will hold it in place. Get all of your bolts started, then tighten them in a star pattern. Its not that hard of a job, it just might look a bit intimidating. There really isnt much to it. Just take your time, and youll do fine. Any other questions, feel free to ask.



Chip B.
Dodge Dakota
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10/04/2004
15:29:08

RE: 91' V-6 engine very dirty
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Viscosity is an oils measurement of "sticky-ness" and is usually mistakened for it's thickness. As my vehicles approach 30k miles, I move up the viscoity ladder, and by 60k, I'm using 10w50w. But down here in Texas, the wind blows mighty warm, and I run the snot outta everything I drive. A little extra sticky-ness in the ol' motor won't hurt.



Bill Benson
Dodge Dakota
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10/04/2004
21:05:57

RE: 91' V-6 engine very dirty
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Thanks again for the quick replies, Cyalume, I looked it over and it seems I have to take out the starter, drop a cross member and other stuff to get at it.
Many years ago when I was very young I dropped the pan on a 50 Studebaker Champion 6 cylinder, what a job that was, at 61 years old now I dont think so.
I would like to clean the screen, but I don't want to start a job and be forced to pay a garage to fix it.
Today I had a muffler shop put in a tail pipe and a new cat, $300.The cat was totally shot, all loose rattling inside.
This $1000 truck already is close to $2000.
I will change to 10-40 oil, my 1970 Dodge Polara has 200K miles and is using it.
Thanks again, sorry for the lone winded post.



Cyalume
Dodge Dakota
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10/04/2004
21:23:53

RE: 91' V-6 engine very dirty
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Well, if there is that much involved, I wouldnt worry with it either. My Chilton manual didnt get into that. Maybe it changed on the 97+ frame. Changing the oil a few times ever couple of hundred miles should do the trick. I wouldnt worry about the money youre putting into it so long as it doesnt get much higher than what it is. These trucks last a long time, and you should easily see a few more years out of it. Ive seen these v6 Dakotas last well over 200,000 miles. Just keep the oil changed, keep an eye on the o2 sensors, stuff like that. You shouldnt have much more to invest. Again, good luck!



Bill Benson
Dodge Dakota
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10/05/2004
17:50:40

RE: 91' V-6 engine very dirty
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Thanks again Cyalume,I will be getting a larger capacity oil filter and go with 10-40 oil, winter is comming but hopefully the heaver oil won't cause a dry start when it is zero outside.
I notice that the oil gauge reads low untill the engine warms up, about 5 min. than it reads ok until it gets full heat after a hard drive on the highway, when I come to a stop it reads down to the lowest line in the normal range as I had mentioned before.
Could it be the sender? It responds to higher and lower enging rpm's so it leads me to believe it is a REAL pressure gauge not a switch like the 1990 ford vans have.
I can almost kill the engine and the pressure will drop to zero and the oil light will come on, so it responds quickly, except when first started when cold.
Sorry for rambling on.




Cyalume
Dodge Dakota
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10/05/2004
21:44:10

RE: 91' V-6 engine very dirty
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Well, a higher viscosity oil should only help cold starts, since it being heavier will let it stay bonded to the internals better. Im not sure what kind of gauge the earlier trucks have in them. Maybe someone else knows. It may be because of the nasty oil in it. Its hard to tell. Make sure you use 4.5 quarts, and a quality oil filter. Ive seen oil filters that can cause pressure problems until the oil is hot. Get something like a Bosch or a Mobile 1 filter. Dont use Fram. Ever. On anything. Ive seen a few studies to prove the the Fram oil filter is the worst on the market. My personal pick is Wix, but they can be hard to find in smaller regions. Ive used STP if the money is tight, and Ive never had a problem. If youre gonna change it a few times before running it the normal 3000 mile change intervals, I wouldnt spend $11 on the Moble 1 just yet. In fact, I just put a Moble 1 on my truck today, so Ill let you know how it works out.



91Dakota
Dodge Dakota
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10/06/2004
01:51:14

RE: 91' V-6 engine very dirty
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I have a 91 with over 200000 miles. I know these motors inside out. Don't use 10-40!! I would not even use it if was FREE!!! Buy a new oil pressure guage. I bet the oil pressure is more than half way up the meter aftewards. Mine was the same way at 200000 miles. Really want to see if a flush will kill the engine? Remove the valver covers. If there is any sludge built up there, there is even more under the intake!!! If there is no sludge under the valve covers, you are pretty safe to do a flush. My advise if you don't know the entire history is to drive it and change the oil at the next 1000 miles. Or better drive it like you stole it, get it really hot then change the oil. Continue to change the oil frequently. It will eventually clear up. Mine goes near 2000 miles before it starts to get dirty. Regular maintenance will make it last a long way. I know and have proof. 200000 miles and original owner.



91Dakota
Dodge Dakota
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10/06/2004
01:54:24

RE: 91' V-6 engine very dirty
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OPPSS, should be oil pressure sending unit. Use a impact wrench set to remove the unit. The measurement for the unit is over 1".



Bill Benson
Dodge Dakota
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10/06/2004
14:44:46

RE: 91' V-6 engine very dirty
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Thanks for the info. yes as I stated earlyer in the posting, reaching into the oil fill hole in the valve cover, the inside of the cover is black and feels like a thin coating of grease.
I must say again when I got the truck the thermostst was wide open and the engine was running at 135 degrees, so could it black slime be from the fact the engine was running cold in addition to dirty oil?
One code I do get is engine running too cold, but I put in a 195 thermostat 300 miles ago, should the code go away?
Truck does not ping, but it seems the EGR valve is not working, if I take the hose off the EGR valve itself and hook another hose to it and draw a vacuum to the EGR valve with my mouth, the plunger pulls up and will hold there when I hold my toung on the end of the hose.
So it seems that the black plastic thing that is part of the EGR valve is not working, but the valve itself is working.
Should I bypass that round plastic thing?
The EGR is sold as a two piece unit.
Thanks guys fo all the help so far.





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