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BLACK MARKS
Dodge Dakota
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1/21/2004
19:53:10
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 Subject: lakewood traction bars
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I have a problem....wheel spin. I know it is a big problem with these dakotas, and have heard a lot of people talk about lakewood traction bars, and slapper bars. Is there a difference between traction and slapper bars?? Where can I find a set of these, and how much will I be paying?? Any help would be great.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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1/22/2004
00:34:04
| RE: lakewood traction bars
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Slapper bars are pretty useless, they are more for looks than function. Originally, they were used to improve the crappy suspension design of the 70's street cars.
Traction bars are solidly mounted at both ends. Of course, the ultimate would be ladder bars and coil overs.
For a discussion on this: http://www.dodgedakota.net/boards/off/2275.html
For some pictures: http://www.mm-inet.com/523148.shtml
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midnightmagic
GenIII
1/22/2004
03:03:19
| RE: lakewood traction bars
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i have broken two pairs of lakewood trac bars, i still had mad tire spin even with thm on
You gotta ask yourself one question...That Thing Got A HEMI???
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black marks
Dodge Dakota
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1/22/2004
07:52:39
| RE: lakewood traction bars
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Ok, so how much would ladder bars, and coil overs cost me? Or would much wider tires work? I have 255/50/zr17's now, but my rims are 9.5 wide I could probably get a 315/40/17 on it, but I still dont think it would be enough. This thing doesn't hook in third gear, and It has a LSD. I think it might be the drop kit that is causing my problems.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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1/22/2004
10:46:24
| RE: lakewood traction bars
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Ladder bars and coil overs will run about $2500 installed, give or take. Parts are about half of that. Welding and fabrication are the rest.
I would go to bigger/better tires first. It's a whole lot cheaper. Consider putting some weight in the back.
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Rob454
Dodge Dakota
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1/22/2004
11:55:58
| RE: lakewood traction bars
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Hey Bob
What if he used soem of the trailmaster rear traction bars. I see them on rangers and full size trucks. it looks liek a long trailing arm with two tubes that meet at the frame end with a HEIM joint and bracket and splits as it goes to the axle tube and has cross braces.
That would work but they hang down. If its a street driven truck i dotn see a problem. its supposed to be for lifted 4x4s. I was gonna do that on my truck but I dotn have axle hop anymore.
Either that or get soem stiffer springs. Deaver springs is who makes the springs for our shop. their quality is top notch.
ROb
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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1/22/2004
13:29:53
| RE: lakewood traction bars
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Rob, those are traction bars. They are made from two tubes with cross braces to make them stronger and look better. They are also heavier. Life's a trade off, isn't it? Anyway, for rock crawlers and heavy off roading they are a good choice.
But for street use, they may not be such a good choice. They are attached to the axle tube at two points, top and bottom, and to the frame at one point. So as the axle articulates through it's range it will cause the axle tube to rotate through the arc. This can change the pinion angle considerably. Every degree of offset in pinion angle costs you hp exponentially. For an off roader, that's not a real problem. For street performance, it can be.
A set up like this can be built to work for you. If it's designed correctly, it will actually correct the offset and maintain that "perfect" 0* angle throughout the expected range.
If it were my truck, here's what I'd do. Weld a pair of brackets to the bottom of the axle tubes, just inside of the spring perch. Place the mounting point about 2" below the axle tube; about the same distance as the shock. If you draw a line from the center of the axle to the mounting point, and then another line from the mointing point to the front eye bolt, these two lines should be 90-95* to each other.
Weld another pair of brackets to the frame so that the foreward mount is exactly even with the front spring perch bolt.
Now mount a bar between the two points. Use a heavy wall 1" bar and 3/4" rod ends. Now the axle can continue to articulate as normal, so you won't notice any changes during normal driving. But during acceleration it will keep keep the pinion from rotating. Also, that rotational force (torque) will converted to linear force, and transmitted to the frame point. That force will attempt to lift the frame of the truck. But it can't, so instead it trys to drive the tires downward into the pavement. You get the effect of adding weight to the bed, without adding mass.
If you want to improve lateral traction (cornering) move the foreward mounting points inward about 6". Just like early GM cars and late model Mustangs, that will keep the axle from shifting laterally during cornering.
The whole set up should not add more than 25# of weight to the rear of the truck, and most of that is sprung weight. That's the same weight as 3 gallons of fuel. It's also fairly cheap. I bet you wouldn't spend more than $100. The four rod ends would be the most expensive part.
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midnightmagic
GenIII
1/22/2004
22:16:23
| RE: lakewood traction bars
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you could try a pinion snubber too!
You gotta ask yourself one question...That Thing Got A HEMI???
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black marks
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2004
07:30:37
| RE: lakewood traction bars
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Are there holes in the diff. case for a snubber? Or would I need to tap some? I dont know if a set of traction bars like I see on muscle cars would work, my truck is lowered 7 inches in the back, so clearance would be a problem with that style! Maybe I'll go with tires for now, but save for the ladder bars, and coil overs. Are they something I could weld myself?
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hold on
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2004
17:31:23
| RE: lakewood traction bars
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You cannot mount a solid link between the rear axle and the frame. I understand the rod ends for the assembly to pivot, that is not what I am refering to. The leaf springs have to be mounted in a floating housing bracket to stop suspension bind. The rod wants to travel in an arch when the suspension moves up and down, even when the mounts are posistioned directly above or below the leaf spring mounts.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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1/23/2004
18:48:50
| RE: lakewood traction bars
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Yes, the rod end moves in an arc, not straight up and down. But remember that on a Dakota, the problem is too much rotation of the axle tube and pinion. So this will improve on that by a significant amount. You will not only gain power by maintaining pinion angle, but you will also prevent spring wrap up and improve weight transfer to the tires.
Is it perfect? No. Would a floating axle housing, ladder bars, and coil overs be better? Of course. But you have to balance all that against cost and complexity. These simple traction bars have been used since the early 60's with good results. Carrol Shelby installed them on the GT350's.
If I was building an all out high power dragster, I would not use these. But for a street driven Dakota, they will work well.
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