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03:56:41 - 04/27/2024
Dakota Performance
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
 
12/21/2003
00:46:55
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 Subject: RWD vs. FWD???
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Hey. I want to take a poll here on what people think here.
I also frequent the Avenger/Sebring site to get ideas and share ideas for our other car a Chrysler Cirrus which is a sister car to the Sebring/Avenger.
There is some guy over there that thinks FWD cars outhandle RWD cars. Damn. I've had people tell me they were better in the snow (IF you get any traction) and stuff like that but I have NEVER had anyone claim they out handle RWD cars alltogether. I'm talking high speed cornering, launching, etc. I think the guy is moking crack and from my experience FWD cars when they do lose traction during high speed cornering, they are very dangerous and hard to control while in a skid. I've persoanlly driven RWD cars thru curves at +90 MPH while the tires slid (a LONG time ago when I was more crazy or stupid).
This guy says his Avenger is better at cornering than Mustangss and the likes.
Man. It actually hurts my brain to argue (have diff opinions) with this guy.
I personally think my truck can corner better than our FWD Chrysler.
What do you guys think about this?
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Rob454
Dodge Dakota
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12/21/2003
01:02:37
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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Well a FWD car will plow in turns cause most of the weight is on the front tires. not to mention the fromt tires do double duty. not only do they steer the vehicle they are also what provides motion. front wheel drive is great for snow, makes a car stable and easy to straighten out if it gets sideways ( easier than a RWD) BUT its definately NOT as good from a performance standpoint. its also great cause its cheap to make you can share platforms and make a bunch of cars from the same platform. its also good ( from a business standpoint) cause its cheaper to make and to market.
all those things are great overall but if FWD is so great why are ALL performance and sports cars ( well real sports cars) RWD. I dont forsee BMW or Lamborgini or Ferarri making a FWD car anytime soon. Whoever that guy that said his Sebring will outhandle a Mustang is full of crap. Im not saying the Mustang is a supercar but id love to see a sebring attempt a 4 wheel slide. FWD is the worse set up for handling
Rob
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Shltpot
Dodge Dakota
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12/21/2003
04:56:56
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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Graphite,
ANybody who gets campy over this issue is a newb and a wannabe and has never driven both. I have been driving for 25 years and have had my share of FWD and RWD vehicles.
Both are fun and both have their plusses and minuses. For example, I have never had a FWD car powerful enough to do donuts in August. Then again I have never had a RWD car in which I have felt confident enough to take a certain offramp that has a posted speed of 25MPH at 105MPH like my Neon could.
Tell that wannabe on the other board to live in both worlds before posting campy crap like that.
Just my $0.02 worth.
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Kowalski
Dodge Dakota
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12/21/2003
08:47:27
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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While FWD may seem easier to drive hard since their tendancy to push is easier to recover from than RWDs usual tendancy towards oversteer, that doesn't mean they inherently handle better. It's RWD you'll see on the fastst circuits in both NASCAR and open wheel racing, often cornering at around 200 mph. Good luck trying that with FWD, which eats up front tires much faster.
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Shame
Dodge Dakota
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12/22/2003
01:47:00
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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There's more racing in the world than rednecks and their sanctioned road rage.
SCCA, WRC and the FIA all have FWD racing and it's quite fast and quite successful.
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xplikt
GenIII
12/22/2003
04:22:50
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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You have a lot of very nice performing FWD cars, Celicas, Preludes, Acuras, Talons/Mitsus, Mazda 6. They all are very nimble cars and corner right with the rest of them.
Check any of the larger road racing SCCA events.
However, once you go to a RWD you'll wonder why you spent so much money trying to make your FWD be something it shouldn't be. Then you'll buy a BMW, GenIII RX-7, or Corvette and thank yourself. But also remember weight distriution also plays a part in cornering ability blah blah blah...this issue could go on forever..
I like both for different things.
That's funny you feel more confident taking the off ramp with a FWD car more than RWD. Personally, a nice Z or 7 is hard to beat when taking ramps.
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/xplikt/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out | straight piped 3rd cat | turndown tip
Full Hotchkis and RAS
Shaved emblems and antennae
150BM fan | removed clutch | HD Radiator
R/T wheels on 275/40/17 Dunlop 9000s
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vroom vroom
Dodge Dakota
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12/22/2003
11:21:25
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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I agree, both platforms have their advantages. I prefer FWD for snow or daily driving and RWD for fun... skid pans, burnouts... fun! Like xplikt mentioned, most performance cars are RWD to get the 50/50 weight distribution. It's very hard to achieve that with FWD without adding more weight. If they could achieve that, then I feel the FWD system would have an advantage, IMO.
Then of-course, there's AWD! Even better, but still adds alot of weight for the performance gain. It all depends on what your application is.
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Zach
Dodge Dakota
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12/22/2003
13:01:38
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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I would take a RWD over a FWD anyday, mainly because RWD's typically have oversteer, which can be controlled to an extent, whereas a FWD car typically gets understeer, which when pushed to the limits, gives you basically no control of where you want your vehicle to go. I have seen a video before (I know its on Kazaa or some other download program, I dont know a URL) where they show the handling differences between RWD, FWD and AWD. They concluded that RWD is best for handling. I suggest that others try and find this video, very interesting.
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Mark
Forum Moderator
12/22/2003
13:35:03
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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Sh|tpot: Doughnuts in August... I love that. Ive had other rear wheel drive cars and they were never able to do the mid summer doughnuts like my dakota can.
Damn I love my dakota... and that limited slip differential!
-Mark Hryckiewicz
1993 Sport RC SB 5.2L Auto
Mark.DodgeDakotas.com
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rwd only
Dodge Dakota
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12/22/2003
18:40:20
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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nobody has comented on the launching....Rwd has to be better, because if you have a sure grip you always spin both tires, and if it goes sideways you can counter steer it. Fwd does not always spin both, and can cause torque steer, which sucks ass when you dont expect it, plus if both do spin, you cant steer as well with tires that spin, plus the weight transfers off the drive wheels, where a rwd transfers weight to the drive wheels.....I'll stick with my rwd v8's let the "children of the rice" play with fwd's.
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ricardcapecod
Dodge Dakota
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12/22/2003
22:26:19
|  RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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If i have to spend any time in a vehicle, it most be in a rear drive. I don`t care if it is for work, a trip to stop&shop or whatever. Unfortunatelly, back in the late 70s early 80s, when the front drives became more popular,all the magazines and reportings in general use to refer as the old rear drivers as some thing "from the past, unefficient, too heave etc". The car makers loved the idea and ever since, they never stoped building these much cheaper setup, until a little while back when the same media started to realize the big mistake, and literally requested the return of the rear drivers. Now we can choose from a number of then, without needing to go to mercedes or BMW. I also love the fact that we can buy almost any rear drive with the 5 0r even 6 speed manuaL. As the horsepower war goes on, its unevitable to have not just rear drivers, but, 5 or 6 speed manual, and LSD differential.
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GRNDSM
Dodge Dakota
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12/24/2003
12:59:34
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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Is FWD better for performance handling than RWD? No, it is not.
But can some guy’s modified Avenger handle better than some other guy’s Mustang? It sure can!
Having said that, many people who claim that they have a well handling car many times do not know what they are talking about. If this is this guys opinion based on the fact that he threw some parts at his car or that he “out handled” someone in a street race, he is probably full of it. On the other hand, if he is a racers who frequents AutoX or Road Racing events, I would tend to believe him.
Leon
RR
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Boomer
Dodge Dakota
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12/25/2003
01:32:10
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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Thankfully most people here are bieng 'smart' about this subject, and not "Mine is better than yours!"
I've owned the following and then some, but here are the biggest reasons I am experienced in this topic...
96 Beretta V-6 AT
89 RX-7 Convertible 5 spd
97 Dak 4x4 5.2L
71 Cutlass w/455
96 Sebring V-6
With the above, I can say that I've had experience w/ both worlds, and I love RWD over the FWD, hands down!
The best all around car would be the Sebring, somewhat quick, good handling, and straight up reliable.
The Beretta was faster off the line (vs Sebring & Dak) and in the corners, due to it's lighter weight (softer suspension though) and better gearing. But the Sebring was full of options, better looking, and almost as quick.
The Cutlass is nothing more than a bunch of hp/tq under the hood waiting to whip up on anything, but it has the whole 70's suspension body roll and lots-o-weight to push, so a better 1/4 mile car than all the others, and the best looking.
The Dak is a truck, just that, a T R U C K. My workhorse. My moneypit and my project, #2 to the Cutlass though.
The overall best handling car is the RX-7. It's RWD, very light, tight suspension, and will outcorner almost anything stock on the road. I stress stock! They are balanced 50/50 from the factory, and are designed to be road warriors.
In the twisties, light weight 50/50 is the true way to go; have the rear tires push you and the front steer you. This is why the RX-7's, 300ZX's, and Supra's are coveted by the ricer world. But the only one with true 50/50 balance is the RX-7, and the RX-8 is almost, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's 51/49. The easiest way to get that 50/50 is w/ RWD. My Sebring and Beretta plowed into corners, even w/ 2 people in the RX and 1 in the Sebring and Beretta, they couldn't keep up. Off the line the RX-7 was a dog, the rotary is not good in the torque area, unless they're at 5000+ rpm's. But I do love the 9k redline and top end power; wish I could have the turbo version.
Lets face it, the fastest on-road cars in the world are all RWD. F-1, IRL, CART, LeMans, BMW, Mercedes Benz, Lambo, etc. Off road cars are all AWD, Opel's, Renault's, Subi's, Mitsu's, etc. Rumor has it that Caddy will switch all of it line back to RWD by 2008 or so, and a few other GM cars will be RWD by the same time, some w/ V-8s. If you look at it in the 1/4 drag times, RWD's are better there as well. The weight transferrs to the rear of the car upon acceleration. This transfer lifts the front up and sometimes off the ground, how do you expect a FWD to go faster then? The weight transfer results in added traction, again the world's fastest cars are RWD. But, the FWD's are catching up very quickly, but I really don't think they can beat the RWD times.
The FWD world is best used in normal day to day driving, wet weather, snow, etc. The added weight up front adds in traction, pull the car through, not push.
Well, long post, late at night, and I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas! Gotta love working a late at night screw job!
Boomer
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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12/25/2003
02:10:12
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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Well Said Boomer,
Just wanted to add, Audi's have always been dominate in racing. They are all wheel drive cars and just crush even the best rear wheel drive racers. They usually have to add weight to the vehicles because, the other racers complain, forcing the racing sancations to penalize audi's.
Oh, have you ever seen an exotic fwd? lol
On ice, i would love to have a fwd or awd, however for pure handling out on the back roads (not race tracks), give me an rwd. On off-road or anytype of other racing, give me an awd.
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xplikt
GenIII
12/25/2003
18:38:54
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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"The overall best handling car is the RX-7. It's RWD, very light, tight suspension, and will outcorner almost anything stock on the road. I stress stock!"
Absolutely. I used a stock 13 year old 1990 RX-7 N/A on cruddy wal-mart all season tires (I had just bought it) out on a road course and kept up with BMWs on sticky street tires They are awesome little cars, I love mine. Only changed I made before I went out there was a quick tune up (plugs, wires, intake filter, fuel filter, clean TB), piped it, and put some HAWK Blacks on it.
"In the twisties, light weight 50/50 is the true way to go"
Well no. Not exactly all the time. The new 350Z is 52/48 or 53/47 and they did that on purpose. They did it in order to achieve a more perfect balance when braking into a corner. Who knows if they mean it or not, but I know some prefer a bit of rear-bias. But you also must remember, the 350Z's engine is not a true mid engine either, it's engine is centerline behind the front axle. Trust Nissan.. :|
But that ratio is common now, Skyline, 350Z, and RX-8. I'm not sure if it's really better or not, but several vehicles are doing it..
"But I do love the 9k redline and top end power; wish I could have the turbo version. "
So do I, but I don't drive mine enough for me to spend that much on it for a conversion. Maybe when I move to Spokane and have a track near by..
But I do want to take it to Pike's Peak this year..
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/xplikt/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out | straight piped 3rd cat | turndown tip
Full Hotchkis and RAS
Shaved emblems and antennae
150BM fan | removed clutch | HD Radiator
R/T wheels on 275/40/17 Dunlop 9000s
|
GRNDSM
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
12/25/2003
18:51:38
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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Guys,
I agree with what you say, but you are still not giving AWD enough credit :). Once you start talking about “big” power, AWD is just as useful on dry surface as it can be on ice and gravel.
That is why EVO8 virtually matches Z06 Vette in handling... And surpasses it in some ways (like slalom). Once you bump the power 2x, it becomes even more evident!
Leon
RR
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ricardcapecod
Dodge Dakota
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12/25/2003
21:02:16
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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You might think that a 4wd or an all wheel drive is able to perform better then 2WD, but in my case, i`d not even consider this. I could not live with all that extra weight, the completelly different way that the steering and the entire truck reacts on hard turning (handling). With the all wheel drive you can`t induce over steering with the accelerator(if you can turn fast enough to be beyond the trucks limit of grip).If you need performance in road, street or track get rear drive, with LSD and nothing less than 3.70/1 for final
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RAT
Dodge Dakota
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12/30/2003
01:34:11
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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Is everyone forgetting Gran Turismo? The game? Very realistic when it come to stuff like understear, overstear, wieght distribution. The whole game is like a fantasy test between drive formats. Although my favorite cars on the game, were mainly rwd's like Supra's, and RX-7's, the best performing cars I found on the game in all around conditions, were all AWD's, like the Skyline, EVO's, and Audi's. It's really fun to drift in the game or in life, but somtimes it just makes you loose speed, and tires. If you have the cash for real performance (not found in trucks no matter how much you love them) and you have sufficient power (400-1000hp) I say go AWD, or at least RWD.
Another thing. there is always the issue of room, under the hood for FWD cars. That's why you never see the same power out of them. Not much room for V8's. I have to say though. The fastes car I ever drove was my good friends VW Carrado. Came from Germany. Good power to weight, and fairly good handling. pulls low 11's at the quate too.
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RAT
Dodge Dakota
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12/30/2003
01:35:50
|  RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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nuther' thing.
Nothing is cooler than an AWD burnout.
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2004
22:00:56
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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Just wanted to let you guys know that Car & Driver did a real nice ariticle on Foreign Tuner FWD, RWD, AWD. But, a stock 2004 Corvette Z06 spanked them all on the road course. Go figure.
The Car & Driver issue was Sept. 2003
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GRNDSM
Dodge Dakota
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1/04/2004
00:39:17
| RE: RWD vs. FWD???
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So... A $54k Z06 was only slightly faster than a $28k EVO8 with around $5k worth of mods (do not ask me why much more expensive and slower RWD S2000 won the competition). Did I mention that EVO is also a 4 door sedan? Plus, those particular EVOs were not very good examples of well tuned EVOs…
Leon
RR
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