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Toomstone
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2003
09:20:53
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 Subject: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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Hey guys/gals! I’m glad I found this site! I have a 97 Dakota with a 318 with a miss/surge problem. It mainly happens when it’s really cold out (about 15 or lower) and it doesn’t matter if the engine is warmed up or not. It happen the other day on the way to work in 5th gear. It feels like the truck is not getting enough fuel. I changed the spark plugs, cap and roter, took the fuel rail out and injectors and cleaned them. I’m thinking about replacing the fuel pump next. Anyone have this problem before or know anything about it?
Thanks!
Chris
PS Great Site!
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2003
10:39:01
|  RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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If, you have a throtle position sensor, it could be what's causing the problem.
Had an old escort, that use to do that. Took it to a mechanic, couldn't find the problem, because, it was off and on.
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farmer86
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2003
20:54:06
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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I got fuel probs too and I just pulled my pump to check it out. I cut a hole out of the box to get to mine. You can alernatively lift the box (8 bolts M10x1.5x4.5) instead of dropping the tank. After getting the collar off with a big screwdriver and mallet, she just slid right out. Get a couple cans of carb cleaner and use a full one on the pump anf filter alone; its worth it. Since I did mine, no more kicking and dying on cold starts.
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Toomstone
Dodge Dakota
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12/11/2003
08:34:46
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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Fasty,
I think I will change the throttle positioning sensor tonight and see how that works.
Farmer,
I have a fuel pump on order. But your saying just a good cleaning did the trick? I will take the bed off if it’s easier and I might replace it anyway since I have it all apart. My luck, I will change it and then the thing will quit on me anyway and I would have to do the whole thing over again.
Thanks for the info!
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don not do it
Dodge Dakota
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12/11/2003
17:55:01
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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don't change something just cause some guy on the 'net said to! Take it to a "real mechanic" that has driveabilty expertise! It may cost a few bucks but so far you have spent about 25-30 bucks and several hours and are no closer to a fix, and now want to throw more money at it, Find a good tech, you may find you are way off in your "guesses".
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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12/11/2003
18:33:16
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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Well don no do it,
I spent $100 to take it to a mechanic. It didn't solve the problem. So, I started replaceing parts that was questionable:
1st: Took a look at my spark plugs to see if any of them look funny. All were the same. Nothing fishy here. So, plugs, wires, rotor, injector, o2 sensor and cap was ok.
2nd: The only other possiblity would be fuel pressure regulator (mechanic checked ok ($100) this p!ssed me off), ground wire from block, and various sensors. The thortle position sensor, regulates idle and tells the computer to retard or advance the timing. So, after narrowing down the possibilities, i changed out the throtle position sensor. Woo hoo, i was right.
It is frustrating to take it to a shop. Because, the more time they spend, the more money it is. So, by replacing parts thru logic, will be cheaper in the long run. Plus, you now the parts you changed will not fail again.
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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12/11/2003
18:41:56
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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Oh, almost forgot,
I axed the idea, that it was a bad IAC motor, because, it still had smooth idel. It only surged, everytime i changed gears (off and on). Manual 5 speed.
This was telling me the throtle position sensor was not reacting fast enough to the changes.
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Toomstone
Dodge Dakota
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12/12/2003
07:25:44
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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I did take it to a mechanic who worked for Dodge and he said that he would change the fuel pump. I am doing it myself since he will not be able to get to my truck for another week and I can’t be down for that long. If it turns out that it’s not the pump and it’s the TPS then no big deal. My truck has 95,000 miles on it. My luck the pump would go soon if I didn’t change it. I’m just gathering as much information as I can to see which way to go. Out of all the people I asked and some info I read on this board (through archives) it seems the pump is the next thing.
I will keep you posted. I’m changing it tonight after work!
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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12/12/2003
12:54:16
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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Toomstone,
Just wondering, if you checked to see, if there was any hair line cracks in the rotor in the distributor?
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Toomstone
Dodge Dakota
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12/16/2003
08:23:24
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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Update:
I changed the Fuel Pump and the TPS and this morning it still had a miss to it. I am totally stumped. I drove it yesterday when it was warmer outside and it was fine. This morning it was 18 and it started actin’ up.
Why does it miss when it’s about 20 or below. Before it would do it on the highway when downshifting from 5th to 4th but now it does it all the time when it’s cold.
HELP!
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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12/16/2003
15:45:38
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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After you changed your TPS, did you reset the computer?
take a look at the rotor in the distributor cap, and also the distributor cap itself. Look for hair line cracks. look in the cap, to see if there is any burn marks or irregularities inside of the cap. If, there is change both.
Did you take a look at all your plugs? This will tell you if one of your injectors is plugged.
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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12/16/2003
15:47:10
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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Did you check your ground cable from the block to the battery or body?
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Toomstone
Dodge Dakota
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12/16/2003
15:53:53
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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How do I reset the computer? I changed the cap,roter and plugs last winter but I will check them again tonight. I will check the ground cable tonight also.
Thanks Fastyz!
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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12/16/2003
15:56:24
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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Disconnect the battery, turn your key to the start position, let it sit for about 1 min. Then connect the batter back.
If, you have any time of cracks on your rotor or cap, this would cause, those types of symtoms as well.
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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12/16/2003
15:58:05
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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oh, make sure you turn off the key before you connect the battery.
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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12/16/2003
16:09:53
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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Toomstone,
found a post at another forum about your surging problem. It, kinda, goes back to what i'm saying. Take a look. just copy and paste the following link into your browser address bar.
http://www.tispecialty.com/articles/article5fig2/2engine_surge.htm
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Toomstone
Dodge Dakota
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12/16/2003
16:10:09
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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I will reset the computer tonight and check the rotor cap. My mechanic friend said to check the rotor shaft to make sure it does not wobble or move that there should be no play in it.
Thanks again Fastyz
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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12/16/2003
16:19:01
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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yes, you Mechanic friend is correct. If, your shaft is wobbly, it would happen all the time. However, your's only happens when it is below a certain temperature. Plastic and rubber expand and contract at a much faster rate.
Therefore, when it's warm, the rubber or plastic expands, sealing the small crack, when it gets colder, it lets the crack open. Thus spark leak to ground. This may be the problem.
If, the reset of your computer doesn't work, take a look at your plug wires, rotor and cap.
If, you still have the receipt for your wires, i would take them back and tell them that they are bad, and get a new set. lol (I'm such a cheap b@stard)
So, now, you have taken the wire out of the equation. Now, it is just cap, rotor, and ground wiring. And the sensor that sends the signal to the rotor. For you particular motor, i don't know which sensor that would be.
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Toomstone
Dodge Dakota
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12/19/2003
08:58:49
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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Now I really have no idea what the problem is! I checked the cap, rotor, and wires and there all ok. I put some dry gas in it again and it I drove it to work yesterday without a problem. But then this morning is missed about 4 times on the way to work. It happen in 3rd, 5th, and when I had to downshift to 4th it happen when I let the clutch out and gave it some gas.
I can't think of anything else!
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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12/20/2003
01:48:50
| RE: 97 Dak Miss/Surge?
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Just curious, after you took the cap off, then put it back on, did the problem stop?
If it did. Then, take your cap and rotor off again, and install it back on. If, it fixed it again, then problem came back, you know you have a defective cap and rotor.
You could also, take a long spark plug wire, start at cylinder 1 (disconnect from distributor and spark plug, then replace with the long cable), run you vehicle, if problem still there, goto cylinder 2, then cylinder 3, and so on. Till, you find the cylinder that is causing the trouble. Or, i should say, that fixes the problem.
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