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Ry
Dodge Dakota
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5/31/2001
12:31:10

Subject: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I'm new to this board and it would take years to find it in the archives. So I'll ask the question anyway....

I noticed on a consumer's review website that the 91 V8's were rated at like 170hp and the 92 and up V8's got a boost of power and rated around 220hp.

I would of liked a 92 and up for this reason alone, but I ended up getting my friend's 91 V8 4X.

Question 1: What difference(s) account for the big increase in hp over the 1 year period?

Question 2: Can I upgrade the 91 to incorporate this increase?

Side Question 3: Are there any inherent problems with the 91 year in terms of the engine alone?

Thanks....I'm sure I'll have plenty of more questions since I plan on doing some mods to the truck...



alex
Dodge Dakota
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5/31/2001
13:20:03

RE: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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The 92 & Up engines are the Magnum Series of engines. By revising the heads, the intake, the fuel injection, and odd & various other things, Chrysler managed to get more HP out of the new V6 that they got from the old V8. Those same improvements gleaned 50 more hp out of the new V8. The simple solutions would either be an engine swap (fairly complicated) or a truck swap (fairly easy). Start looking in Auto Trader if you want more power with the same body style. The 92's and 93's are going for about $3500-$6500 here in Atlanta.



Ry
Dodge Dakota
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5/31/2001
13:53:02

RE: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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Alex, thanks for the explanation. I had a feeling it involved a number of different things. Ugh.

The good thing is, the truck has 144k on it. The bad thing is, it still runs strong, but not as strong as it was some 50k ago of course, but still relatively strong.

I'm thinking within the next year or two I can make some upgrades to the engine, swapping in a new one with the more updated magnum version. Do you think I can do this and obtain the gains like the 92 and up? Would I have to make all the fuel changes, etc etc, or?

This may be complicated, yes? I will definitely want to make more power when I put a new mopar engine in when the time comes, not totally stock.

The thing is, I got the 91 off him for a great deal, so I don't want to lose that fact. I can then put some money into this thing to make it a solid truck.

Honestly, my other friend has the 93 4x with half the miles and with I think 3.5 or 3.73 gears, and my truck feels a lot more peppy and powerful than his, even though I have the 3.92s. Regardless, I didn't feel that much difference between the two.

How much of that 40-50hp should I be able to notice....? Thanks!



Brad
Dodge Dakota


5/31/2001
17:27:14

RE: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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If you do switch to a magnum, it will have to be a wholesale change computer and everything. The 91 is a TBI setup from holley. Similar to the projection system they sell. Really just a glorified carb in my opinion. I'm sure you could get the 91 up to magnum numbers but it might be just as wise to save up for a magnum swap.
my 2 cents



ALEX
Dodge Dakota
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5/31/2001
17:33:50

RE: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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The reason your truck seems peppier is the 3.92 gears to his 3.55's. There is much more off-the line pick-up for you. As far as an engine swap, you're going to have to get the whole wiring harness, fuel lines, whole engine, probably motor mounts, exhaust, radiator, and other things. If you look at the Mopar Performance Catalog, there are a few things you can do to add power to the pre-92 v8's, but you may be better off selling your 91 at the end of two years and buying a 94-95 model. you'd be surprised at how much that 50 horsepower will kick you in the pants. Good Luck with it.



Ry
Dodge Dakota
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5/31/2001
21:16:52

RE: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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Thanks guys....

Geesh....feels like I made a mistake in getting that year. Yeah, it kinda does look like a glorified carb.....

Is the 92 and up multiport or something? I'm not much of a TB type carb guy, I would much rather run a multiport system, like on my 5.0.

Is there such a thing as the magnum engine swap kit which contains all those parts you guys listed that I will need to get in order to get it into the 92 and up hp standard?

Hmmm, I need to pick that Mopar catalog. Anything off hand you guys can think of in order to spruce up my 91 for the time being? Nothing too radical since it has 144k on it now. More or less, are there some upgrades I can do for performance while at the same time maintain it so it can not only last longer for engine life but also add some more juice to it?

In the meanwhile...I guess I would need to consider the thought of selling it down the road and getting a 92 and up rather than the headache of it all in making this swap.....

Thanks all...



Ry
Dodge Dakota
 Email

5/31/2001
21:52:01

RE: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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Oh, if anyone knows, what is the retail cost of the complete V8 magnum engine/misc parts setup for the 91 year?

I'm going to call the mopar techline and see what they tell me tomorrow in terms of doing all this at the appropiate time, or if it's going to really break the bank, I might have to sell it to get a 92 and newer like suggested.

Oh for my info, are there any benefits to having the 91 set up, in comparisons to the Magnum setups thereafter? Any +'s to owning the 91 V8 setup?

THANKS!



BMac
Dodge Dakota
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6/01/2001
06:32:46

RE: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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The big difference is the heads, intake and the fact that it is MPI.
The heads are a much better swirl design, have bigger valve and a better port design. You can bolt them on your engine but you have to get the bolt angle of the intake changed and you have to use push rods that have oil holes in them to lub the valve train.
The difference in the intake is the longer runners, they help create more torque.



Ry
Dodge Dakota
 Email

6/01/2001
09:39:44

RE: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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BMAC: Thanks for the further explanation....appreciate it.....



Ry
Dodge Dakota
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6/01/2001
13:35:45

RE: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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Update: I called the performance tech-line at Mopar and I think I spoke with Elliot. I asked him about what I can do with my 91 V8, and he said nothing for the most part. I'm sure this may come as no surprize to some of you, but it did me....

I asked him if I can convert my engine and engine acc over to the magnum series and he said I could, but there is no kit and everything would have to be bought separately.

I asked him if there were any performance upgrades to the 91 V8 that Mopar makes, he said there is nothing available for that year, and the catalog would have nothing to offer me.

Is this true? There has to be something I can get for the truck? Like headers, cam, valves, heads, etc etc that I can bolt on, no? Gosh, it’s a V8, there’s always something that can be done, right!

And if so, what parts(specs) /part would you recommend to provide more performance and possible, furthering the life of my engine by maintaining it at the same time…

Thanks for the help…




Brad
Dodge Dakota


6/03/2001
12:35:08

RE: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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I know they used to make headers for the 91 dak. In my '99 catalog the part # is P4529975. It's a start anyways. I think any pre 92 LA engine parts should work for that engine. Just have to have all the emission stuff in check.



Ry
Dodge Dakota
 Email

6/03/2001
15:29:02

RE: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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Thanks Brad. Now at least I know there exists headers. Kewl. Reading your earlier post, it seems like I will need to buy the entire magnum set up in pieces and then build it up.

According to my friend who put the Mopar 4.2L Multi Port Fuel Injection kit on his 86 Jeep CJ7, "Hesco" is actually the company that manufactured and designed the injection kits for Chrysler and recommended that I call that company which is in AL, and see if they don't make a magnum kit for the 91....

I'll get there. Is it true that the TBI will not like headers, cam, etc etc without re-tuning it or something. I read that is designed around stock use? Or will it be ok with the addition of headers and sorts..?

Next is the exhuast, which I know can be helped.

What size should I go (including the cat)?
3" I had on my 360 Ram, should I go 3" again or 2.5-2.75"?

Thanks...



Brad
Dodge Dakota


6/03/2001
17:08:13

RE: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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I have a single 3" flowmaster catback on my 97 and love it. But a lot of guys like the dual gibson 2.5". I think both will give you good results. Just depends on personal preference. It sounds like you are a 5.0L type so I have a feeling you'll lean towards the duals. The headers from MP come with the y pipe for the stock single exhaust. Actually I think the gibson is single dual out if I am not mistaken. MP claims no other changes are needed for the headers. They say there is a .5 sec gain in 0 to 60 times in the catalog. It has all the emissions stuff included with the kit.
As for converting to a magnum. I think it would be cheaper to buy a engine,tranny and related wiring out of a wreck than trying to switch everything over. And probably fewer headaches.



Brad
Dodge Dakota


6/03/2001
17:09:26

RE: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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I have a single 3" flowmaster catback on my 97 and love it. But a lot of guys like the dual gibson 2.5". I think both will give you good results. Just depends on personal preference. It sounds like you are a 5.0L type so I have a feeling you'll lean towards the duals. The headers from MP come with the y pipe for the stock single exhaust. Actually I think the gibson is single dual out if I am not mistaken. MP claims no other changes are needed for the headers. They say there is a .5 sec gain in 0 to 60 times in the catalog. It has all the emissions stuff included with the kit.
As for converting to a magnum. I think it would be cheaper to buy a engine,tranny and related wiring out of a wreck than trying to switch everything over. And probably fewer headaches.



Brad
Dodge Dakota


6/03/2001
17:12:58

RE: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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Sorry about the double post. One other thought. You could stay with the TBI and go with the magnum heads and a dual plane intake from MP. Not ideal but another option.



Ry
Dodge Dakota
 Email

6/03/2001
19:18:32

RE: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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Brad, great insight thanks.

Yeah, for simplicity and overall performance, I'll do a 3" which will include the Cat as well. Great ideas. Are you using the 2 or 3 stage on your Dak? I've got 2 stage on my stang and had a 3 stage on my truck.....but I've never had a chance to hear one on the Dak. Is the 3 stage noticable enough in sound with a 3" or do I need to go with the 2 stage? I don't want it obnoxious, just throaty and deep. =)

As for the Headers, I'll definitely pick those up, the ones you mentioned! So the guy @ mopar did tell me wrong, they do make headers for the 91!

OK, so I can get the new intake and heads and then I'd be getting closer to the goal I am after.

Any idea how much those items are? Is everything bolt on? Any other mods needed in order to accomadate this? Is it 50 state legal, etc?

Oh yeah, you said it might be cheaper to go to the junkyard and get a magnum engine, computer, etc and a tranny. Why the tranny? Are they different from 92 forward or something?

If what you say is correct and will keep the truck smog legal, I'll get the headers, intake, and magnum heads and that should be a good start...and then when the time comes to rebuild, I'll stick a cam in and up the anty some....

Thanks Brad!



Brad
Dodge Dakota


6/04/2001
12:57:28

RE: 91 vs 92 & up V8 stuff.....
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You'll have to use different pushrods like Bmac mentioned. Could go with a set of roller rockers while your at it.

As for the tranny, I don't know what year they switched to the electronic tranny. That's the only reason I would suggest changing everything. I'm sure there are ways around it but i doubt it would be easy. The pcm controls both engine and tranny. The pre 97 might still have the a500 or a518 trannys which is the same as yours. They might call it a 42rh or 46rh. Not certain on that. Newer ones are 42re(V6), 44re(318) or
46re(360).

oh yeah my flowmaster is a 3 chamber. Not obnoxious but certainly turns heads when you stomp on it. Not really loud at idle but you know its there.



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