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big_torque
Dodge Dakota
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6/06/2003
17:53:27
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 Subject: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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I decided start this thread because I am sick of hearing "FB 50 outflows Fastman 52mm throttle body" I was thinking there is no way more air can go through a smaller hole (F&B50mm) than a larger one (Fastman52mm). Think about it for a sec. I talked to Dan on this subject and heres what he had to say ........
" The age old argument. Here we go…
Remember the rules:
1- As a TB’s bore gets bigger you will lose lowend torque but gain topend HP to a point of diminishing returns.
I have sized my TB’s as a compromise to give the best of both.
If you get too big on your TB size your motor does not use it and all you do is lose lowend.
2- Only so much air can pass through a given bore size. I do not care what material it is made out of, plated with, special coating, polish, etc.
3- If you double the size of a TB’s bore size the airflow does not double. It squares. That is why the small changes in size make a big difference.
Does a 50mm FB TB outflow the Fastman 52mm TB? Let’s take a look:
50mm = 1.968498
51mm = 2.007868
52mm = 2.047238
The Fastman 52mm TB measures 2.030. It is not quite a true 52mm. This was done purposely to keep the torque up as the majority of the Magnums do not need that much Throttle body thus the lowend loss that most true 52mm TB owners report.
If your motor is man enough you can use the bigger bore TB’s. Once again the majority do not.
A FB 50mm TB measures 2.000
Surprise! The FB is not a 50mm TB. It is really a 51mm TB.
Does the 50mm FB outflow a Fastman 52. NO! Very close as the bores are only .030 different but it will not outflow it.
I know I will see argument on how they are optimized at the entry and exit and will flow better but both TB’s are already optimized and very same and similar in these features and the difference will be negligible.
The bottom line is the factory TB can be modified to give the same performance result as the higher priced billets. As was once said to me. If you want looks and performance buy the billets. If you want value and performance buy the modified factory TB.
Have a good day
Fastman
www.thefastman.com"
I DO NOT work for Fastman , DO NOT try and push sales for him , and AM NOT trying to cut down F&B. I am merely trying to show the FACTS.
In my opinion , F&B and Fastman throttle bodies are both quality pieces. I dont think either one is "the best" (a term which I see is thrown around alot). The choice is yours.
And I dont think that dyno test on all the throttle bodies from DTO...
http://www.dodgetrucks.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17124&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=throttle%20bodies&start=15
... should help you choose between the two. 3 HP difference (FB50vs. Fastman52) Too many things can effect HP numbers on a dyno. Temp. , humidity , barometric pressure , tire pressure , etc ....
You will never feel a 3 HP difference.
end
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afi360
R/T
 
6/06/2003
18:28:28
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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i concur, mr. torque, i concur.
its the best compromise of low/top end power...f & b DO look very pretty...if thats what youre after, go with f & b...i can make my fastman 53mm look just as pretty weld up a nice flower vase on top of mine...but it wont make it go much faster :)
good day.
yea...its still stock. NO you cant look under the hood.
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Dakdoc
Dodge Dakota
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6/06/2003
19:12:34
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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Our flowbench set for 28" flowed 782cfm for the 51.8mm FASTMAN TB
The Flowmetrics 50CNC billet flowed 804CFM
Final word...
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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6/06/2003
20:26:15
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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No trying to knock Dan, because I have used his products and talked to him before, but to sya that his word is final, especially when comparing one of his products to a copetitors is foolish. The fastman TB's work very well for the bargain performance guy who is just looking for better than stock. The billet TB's are for the true performance mided personw ho wants the most out of his purchase. And trying to compare prices is kinda foolish as well. Most forget that the Fastman TB requires a core turn in where as with the F&B you keep your stock TB. I've seen stock TB's sell for $120 on Ebay.
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Darryl
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2003
02:12:44
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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I use the Fastman 46mm TB and could not be any happier. The performance gains by both the F&B and the Fastman are so close to each other (way better than stock) that it just comes down to preference.
My personal experience with Dan Arcand was one of the best deals I have made, internet or other.
I also Spoke to Sam and he too was very professional, in the end I just liked the Fastmans' concept better, and yes that includes the price.
Darryl
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rtdkota
R/T
6/07/2003
02:52:26
|  RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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I just have to roll over and laugh at all of the fuss.
LMAO----
Sorry-- I bought a PW50 for my son today-- people call me crazy-- he's 20 days shy of being 2 years old--- He took off like a bat out of hell on it... Makes me more of a kid.
There's always going to be the 'other guy is better camp'... that's fine. Take it to the track guys.
:)
Sam
www.socaldakota.com
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afi360
R/T
6/07/2003
04:03:56
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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hmm.. 'final word' is going out on a limb, in either respect..whether you love the f & b, or you love the fastman's t.b., its fine..theyre both pretty damned good. me personally, i didnt have $250 extra bones to throw out there for 3hp. i like sam, i like dan, i like both throttle bodies. like that dude up there said, its all about preference. if you can afford the money, and like the f & b, go with it, its a nice piece of work. but if you would rather take $250 that you have left over and chuck it towards a cam, or exhaust or something...well..that should more than make up for the 3hp the f & b gives you..thats just my take on it.
its true...im going slower with a fastman t.b. than with an f & b...but i know why.
its all 250 of those dollars i saved that are weighing me down. :)
yea...its still stock. NO you cant look under the hood.
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b1llyw
DakotaEnthusiast
6/07/2003
07:22:32
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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$250 for Fastman 52mm + sending in your core. Net cost, $250. $400 for F&B 50mm - $100 (conservatively) for selling your stock TB. Net Cost, $300. Fastman is good, but I'd go F&B for an extra $50 all day long.
Bill White
2002 QC 4x4, SLT , 4.7, 5 spd, 3.92 LSD
1995 CC 4x2, SLT, 318, 5 spd, 3.55 LSD
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big_torque
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/07/2003
13:07:42
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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I never said HIS word is final. I just used that in the title of the thread.
"Just looking for better than stock"
"Billets are for the true performance minded"
No , no bias there.
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afi360
R/T
6/11/2003
00:32:33
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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in a message dated 6/7/03, jeff gordon said:
"i stuck my pee pee into the bores of my f & b throttle body today....that felt WAY better than sticking it into the fastman throttle body...but thats the only way it can outperform the fastman..when it comes to performance, DAN'S THE MAN!!"
i am going to the dyno in like 10 days...if someone sends me an f & b throttle body, i will gladly do 2 runs with each, and use the average of each run to decide which outperforms which. that should close the case.
yea...its still stock. NO you cant look under the hood.
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2003
01:55:07
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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big_turk show me a 52x55 ported stock TB?? How bout a 58MM stock TB. Oh, yeah, that's right. 52mm port on the stock TB is pushing the limits. But I guess people who want to build their motors beyond basic bolt ons(true performance minded) won't mind being limited by a stock core 52MM TB. F&B used to make bored out stock TB's, but realized the limited potential using th stock cores which is why Bruce switched to custom designed billet aluminum peices. Bigger bores ain't always better either. The 50MM F&B is comparable to the 52MM Fastman or PAS ported stock TB's. WHy is it that a smaller bore billet TB has about the same performance as a larger bore stock core TB? And as far as the price difference, with the Fastman TB, you have to turn in your stock TB as a core charge or it will cost you $100 extra dollars, making the Fastman a $350 TB only $50 behind the F&B. I've seen stock V-8 TB's selling on Ebay for over $100.
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slow r/t man
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2003
08:23:14
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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Just because one flows more on a flow bench doesn't mean it will run better on any particular motor.
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ScojoDak
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2003
09:31:40
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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Let's not forget the "venturi" effect. A smaller hole CAN flow more than a larger hole if the entrance (venturi) is shaped properly.
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LQ
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2003
10:13:50
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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The venturi effect improves flow at low rpm's because the flow rate is lower and the venturi causes the air to pick up velocity as it passes thru. But at higher rpm's (higher flow rate) the venturi becomes restrictive to flow. It's a tradeoff.
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DrewzR/T
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2003
11:43:09
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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I just put my 52 f&b on and I have no complaints! People talk about major torque loss without heads and cam with this one but I can't tell! Torque seems the same, but could have dropped! I'm building up to the blower without doing internal engine work that was the reason for the 52 not the 50! But I like the F&B and would by it again if I had to!
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big_torque
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2003
16:30:05
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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Brian , who uses a 58 or a 52x55 TB ? Not too many people. Im sure Dan could make one but the market for TBs is mostly 50 & 52 mm. And those big TBs are frickin $500 !
And did you read the part where F&Bs "50" is really a 51 ? Kinda like calling your 4 inch hard-on a 6er. LOL. Hell , Fastman can call his 52 a 50 and then have everyone on the net say it outflows , makes more power than F&B. Kinda like when you buy a monitor for your computer , it says 17" but really is 16" viewable. Stupid marketing trying to make people believe they are getting more.
I have a 53mm TB to go with my 2.02heads and cam and thats plenty. It works great and the price was right. I guess Dan went over the 52mm limit you described.
Yea , your stock TB "can" sell as much as 100 but prolly avg. is lower than that. Who wants to deal with selling something on EBay. Dan takes your core and you dont gotta try and sell it. I look at it that way , you maybe different.
Define "true performance minded". What`r you saying , ya cant get performance out of a Fastman TB ? Its not billet aluminum and all pretty so its not really "true performance" ?
I dunno what you got against Dans work or me but you gotta lighten up , dude.
big_dork
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Frankie
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2003
20:06:32
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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Sounds like someone has a hard on for fastman
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2003
02:37:33
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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As I've said before, I have used Dan's TB. Bought it when it was still being sold as a Quick D TB and at the same time F&B was doing ported stockers. Dan wasn't even marketing 50mm TBs at that time, just the 52, and he was still cheaper than F&B. I used his TB just fine for two years. The only reason I switched to a F&B 50 was I couldn't pass up the deal I got on it(cheaper than what I sold my Fastman for) As soon as I bolted the F&B 50MM TB on, I coudl notice a difference. Quicker throttle response off idle and it pulled hard in lower RPMs. I might have lost a little top end, but not much. The daily driver feel of my truck is much better with the F&B, and my 1/4 times didn't change any from the swap. So, for me driveability is better and woudl make me purchase another 50MM F&B before another 52MM Fastman. Just personal experience with both TBs on my truck. All you are going off of is heresay, or what one guy tells you about his competitors stuff. Of course Dan's not going to say the F&B is better, becaue then he couldn't sell his own TBs.
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/12/2003
02:41:29
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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As far as who uses a 52x55 or 58MM TB, Anyone who needs the flow from them, like dual poweradder 408 stroker guys. The same guys who woudl use a 4bbl TB on the 4bbl M1 and don't want the hassle of trying to make a progressive linkage work on the 4bbl TB and don't want to mess with the screw7y TPS signal the 4bbl TB gives compared to actual throttle position.
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afi360
R/T
6/12/2003
04:22:39
| RE: final word on FB50 vs. Fastman52
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i have a four inch hard on.
'she said to give her 8 inches and make it hurt...so i f*cked her twice and hit her with a brick!'
no...no hard-ons for the fastman...just getting tired of hearing 'billet is better'...they are both good throttle bodies, you like yours, i like mine...cant we just get along *sniffle sniffle*
theres no reason to get all immature, this is a factually based thread, lets keep it @ that.
yea...its still stock. NO you cant look under the hood.
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