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Dakfiveoh
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2003
02:12:28
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 Subject: RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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A little better explanation then the one I could give
torque converter explanation
5/0
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2003
09:46:59
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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SXT4ME, stick to your SXT and don't worry bout what us R/T owners are doing to kick your ass at the track. If you don't beleive us, fine, don't do our little trick to keep the TC unlocked, butuntil you drive a R/T WOT and notice the effect of the TC locking up in 3rd gear(yes it does!!)and feel the engie lose power as the RPMs drop when the TC locks up, youwill never understand. Your little V-6 in that SXT won't be affected as bad because it's creating less torque to begin with and the torque doesn't drop as much with the RPM drop. You can read websites all day long about how TC's work, but what we are experiencing is real life situations, not what some website says. To me, experiencing it in person is better than readin a long explaination online or in a book.
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SXT4ME
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2003
12:00:29
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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Hey HSKR,
Listen up fuko! I would not brag about owning an R/T. Like I said, I had a 2001 R/T. That thing was a clam. It could not get out of its own way. I bought an SXT 4X4 because it snows about 6 months out of the year here. You post make a hole lot of sense. Foget about what some of the best tuners in the world know because you know better. Also, Chrysler must have some special knowledge about trannies that knowone else in the industry does.
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Dakfiveoh
Dodge Dakota
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5/18/2003
01:34:27
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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Hey sxt. I am not going to get in a flame war with you. read the qoute from the site you recomended in my first post. lockup = good on the top end of the rpms(best efficiency) however lockup=bad on the bottom end (No torque multiplication to assisst the launch) Here is another quote from the B&M racing site "NASA defines a torque converter as a device for changing the torque speed or mechanical advantage between an input shaft and an output shaft" if a torque converters input side is spinning twice as fast as the output side the output side will spin half as fast but with twice as much torque. so yes lockup is good on the top end because the stator inside the torque convertor is outside of its range of usefulness. however if the rpms are low (big v-8 no modding) it will hurt your et.
5/0
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SXT4ME
Dodge Dakota
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5/18/2003
09:15:44
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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Hey Dak,
I know that locking in low RPM will hurt your performance. It will however improve uour economy. That is why they are designed to lock at low RPM while just driving around normaly. The factory designes them to unlock under full throttle "racing" because they will overheat. The factory is more concerned with fuel economy and this is the big part durability. They could easily make it stay locked under high rpm and race conditions if they wanted to. I suppose you and I could debate what hi-rpm on a big v8 is. Under "race" conditions I think the truck would always be operating in hi enough rpm in the top of secong gear and through third that locking the converter would be beneficial. I would only lock the converter as soon as it hit third gear and leave it locked through then end of the quarter. I would make sure I had a good tranny cooler also.
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slow2dak
Dodge Dakota
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5/18/2003
20:31:17
|  RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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in my opinion i know quite a bit about Torque Convertors and trannys. for all who dont know, Chrysler transmissions have 2 lock-ups. yes i said 2. there is a 3rd lock-up and a 4th lock-up. with the o/d button off, PCM recognizes 3rd gear the highest gear available, so in turn lock-up in 3rd gear is inevitable under any throttle conditions, especially under WOT. no way out of it without tricking the PCM. its part of the programming. let me ask this question. do you know anyone who is a serious drag racer that specifically buys a lock-up transmission and a performace lock-up convertor to lower ET's? i can say in the past i have never me anyone. how many 3500-4800 stall convetors do you see on the market? i have never seen one. adjusting the brake switch to keep the lights triggered all the time will work. with the DRBIII hooked up and the o/d button off, the PCM will not let the trans shift into 3rd gear lock-up. ive tested it and it is true.
mike
02 4.7/Auto RC Sport
3.55 and a one legged wonder
removed 3rd cat, single 3" w/flowmaster
tps .701
relocated IAT
Adjustable ECT sensor
K & N drop in
Removed rubber flap
Unplugged LPS(soon to be adjustable)
All on street tires
Best 1/4: 15.20 @ 89.52
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me
Dodge Dakota
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5/18/2003
21:20:24
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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Slow2dak,
We are not talking about race cars with lock up converters we are talking dakotas.
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slow2dak
Dodge Dakota
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5/19/2003
12:22:44
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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it is a given that with the convertor locked up that your torque multiplication will go up but your engine rpm's drop and so does acceleration. so what makes you think that a lockup convertor will help your ET's? it wont. plain and simple. so, lets prove it. you come to my track and ill stick a lockup convertor in my race car and lets see if it slows it down. then ill stick my 4200 stall back in and watch it go faster. deal?
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SXT4ME
Dodge Dakota
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5/19/2003
16:02:12
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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I can't beleive another azzhole jumped in on this. Listen you idiot slow2dak. I am not talking about race cars and hi stall converters. I am talking about your average vehicle that you might run at the track now and them. The reason the rpms drop you fool with the converter locked up is that the tranny is no longer slipping. I am not concerned with the amount the rpms drop. The reason it is no longer slipping is it is locked up. Hence, no power loss and it is all going to the rear wheels. What is so frigen hard for you effing idiots to understand about that theory. Just go to the damn links I showed and they will explain it to you.
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BrianY 02 R/T
Dodge Dakota
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5/19/2003
18:02:37
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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I know I said I wouldnt respond to sxt4me`s coments but you must be the dumbest person on the planet. I will say it 1 more time. Explain 3 mph faster and 1 tenth quicker with the converter unlocked. I dont care what Art carr and John Lingenfelter have to say. They deal with high horse power and light cars. When your in a 4000+lb truck you want the converter to slip.
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SXT4ME
Dodge Dakota
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5/19/2003
18:58:53
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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I am dumb? What a joke. Anyone thats says they don't care what Art Carr of Lingenfelter have to say is obviously a total moron. I give up. Why does a 3600lb car go faster and a 4000lb truck go slower? The diff. is not that much. You must know more than possibly two of the most respected auto experts in the USA.
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BrianY 02 R/T
Dodge Dakota
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5/19/2003
21:54:11
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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Ya they deserve respect but your comparing apples to coconuts here. I know from my quick street car days that you cant take advice from guys that race comp dragsters and such to use on a 3500 lb street car. The same goes for 600 hp J.L. corvettes to my 255 hp truck.
Im still waiting for you to explain why my truck went quicker and faster with the converter unlocked, When according to you it should have went slower.
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SXT4ME
Dodge Dakota
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5/19/2003
23:26:28
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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http://www.dapa.org/tech_articles/cliffr-trannys.htm
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slow2dak
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2003
23:14:29
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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i dont mean to be rude but i havent seen so many idiotic morons in my entire racing life. whoever started this post, keep on doing what ur doing and let us know what happens with ur ET's. to who is tryin to dog on me, just back up a few steps and pray to god your not talkin to someone who has run fast street cars and trucks along with my my drag cars like i have. ive been there and done that with having a sh*t a*s convertor on the street and wondering why it went so slow when it went into 3rd gear lock-up. ive done it all when it comes to changing combinations with convertors and all. there is nothing in drag racing with MOPARS that gets past me. im not being cocky, just letting the masses that cruise these boards the truth. if you would like to learn something about transmissions why dont you let me teach a seminar for you. ill bring my DRBIII with my Dak and ill prove it to you. why does there have to be such an arguement because a guy went faster with the convertor unlocked? is it that hard to believe that a theory was broken? has he broken the laws of physics? BRIANYR/T, if you need some questions answered shoot me and email and ill help ya out. leave SXT4ME out of the conversation.
Mike
02 4.7/Auto RC Sport
3.55 and a one legged wonder
removed 3rd cat, single 3" w/flowmaster
tps .701
relocated IAT
Adjustable ECT sensor
K & N drop in
Removed rubber flap
Unplugged LPS(soon to be adjustable)
All on street tires
Best 1/4: 15.20 @ 89.52
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2003
14:04:51
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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Message:
Well, my average vehicle runs better with the TC unlocked, and the TC locking doesn't get rid of the tranny slipping, just stops the torque multiplication of the TC. And yes, with the TC UNlocked, it heats up more which is why most people who care about racing run tranny coolers. The TC locks up for efficiency, not speed or acceleration. You're confusing them with each other. I can have the most efficient car in the world, but not be fast or quick. You complain about your R/T being slow and nt getting out of it's own way, and then you buy a V-6 SXT 4X4?? What sense is that? Like I said, stick to your SXT and don't worry about me or any other Dak who passes you on the highway. Everyone here who disagree's with you speaks from personal experience, not from websites. Just because you can read and understand what you read, don't mean you can aplly it, make it work, or have the personal experience to actually make a comment about a subject. I just went and read all the articles on the websites you posted. All of them say TC lock up is for fuel efficiency, and usually does not increase perfrormance. The only time drag racers may want to lock up the TC is when the increase in engine RPMs from the TC slipping takes the vehicle out of it's powerband. This is true for some vehicles, but not for the R/T. Our trannies shift before we get out of our powerband so locking up the TC will drop our RPMs and decrease the hp and TQ making it to the wheels. So what this shows is that in order to try and tell R/T owners what works best for our vehicles requires you to have a clue about the vehicle you are talking about. You said yourself you sold your R/T becuase it was slow, which means you had no clue how to make it run, so don't try and tell me how to make my R/T faster when you gave up on yours and just sold it.
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DW
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2003
05:01:37
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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Just wanted to bring this one to the top of the board incase anyone missed SXT4ME's comments. There's a good laugh or two in here!! I'll agree with SXT4ME on one thing, when a TC is locked it's not slipping and when it's unlocked it's slipping.
SXT4ME says that the factory designes TC's to unlock under full throttle so they don't over heat! HA HA HA HA HA HA
DUDE! The slipping of an unlocked TC is what generates heat. It also multiply's torque and makes the car/truck haul azz.
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SXT4ME
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2003
11:38:39
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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I know a tranny slipping can overheat azzhole. A torque converter will overheat also if locked under full throttle. I stopped responmding to you idiots because it is not worth arguing with fools. When you learn a little more and read up some more I can then maybe hold a conversation with you.
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2003
15:26:52
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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Uhhh freak, er I maen SXT4ME. The TC locks to avoid overheating. Are you that ignorant that you couldn't figure that out in all the links you posted?? Not one of them says anything abou the TC overheating from being locked up, they heat up from being unlocked. And since no reply to my last post, that must mean you couldn't find anything to prove what I said was wrong, especially since I took all the info from the links you provided to me.
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SXT4ME
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2003
16:03:21
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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http://www.lingenfelter.com/torqueconvt.asp Read this idiot. I will get you more info.
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SXT4ME
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2003
16:09:58
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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http://www.bmracing.com/noflash/tech/torque.html
Here is some more
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SXT4ME
Dodge Dakota
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5/28/2003
17:43:21
| RE: Ran my best ET with the brakes on
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They say lock up lowers et also
http://www.api-racing.com/
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