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13:27:18 - 04/25/2024
Dakota Performance
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Dakaty
GenIII
10/21/2002
20:12:27
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 Subject: RTDKOTA
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Sam
Today I was re-reading the "Dakota R/T Shootout" in the January 2002 SportTruck magazine.
After that article came out, there was a lot of discussion about how deceptive those track times/speeds were due to the altitude of the track.
Your time was reported at 15.408 at 89.28, which was faster than everyone that didn't use nitrous.
This summer, I have met up with several "modified" R/Ts and 4.7s in the Houston area that were running from the high 12's (heavy mods + nitrous & slicks) to the high 14's/low 15's (mods similar to those you had at the time of the article). These times were produced at sea level in very high heat and high humidity conditions. (My 2001 5.9 QC ran a 15.1.)
Does altitude really make that much of a difference? If so, I don't guess that many world records have been set at that strip.
PS: Everytime I read that article I have to laugh at the way it was written (by the Editor of the mag).
I really LOVE this statement:
"We also learned that the trucks that had transmission modifications also performed better than those with bone stock trannies"
DUH!!!!!!!!!
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alex
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/21/2002
20:25:54
| RE: RTDKOTA
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Some basic racing/horsepower principles:
1. Oxygen is very flammable. It is an important component of the combustion process.
2. Cooler air is denser with oxygen.
3. As one gets closer to sea level, the more dense the air is with oxygen.
4. In the same manner, the further away you get from sea level, the less oxygen there is in the air.
5. Hotter air is less dense, and thus there is less oxygen per unit of air available.
6. Often, when air is hot, with exception to the desert, it is also humid. Water (humidity) will put out a fire.
So, given these principles......
1. The closer to sea level, the more power your motor will be able to generate.
2. The cooler the air, the more oxygen is available per unit of air, and the more power your motor will be able to generate.
3. The drier the air, the less humidity there is to "put out the fire" in your combustion chambers.
4. Tracks like Houston Raceway Park, located at sea level, are where the NHRA Pro Competitors always set records in the early spring, when the air is relatively cool, dense, and dry. Tracks like Phoenix where the altitude of the track is 3000' above sea level are not known for great record-breaking runs.
Basically, the more hot & humid, the lower your ET's will be. The higher in altitude the track is, the lower your ET's will be. If you happen to be at a track where it's hot, humid, and way up in the air, like that R/T meet, then conditions suck balls and your R/T will be 1 to 1.5 full seconds slower in the quarter mile. And inevtiably, some reporter will show up and publish your ET in soem magazine, and you will catch hell about how slow your truck is for the next 9 months.......
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j
GenIII
10/21/2002
21:19:02
| RE: RTDKOTA
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At an altitude of 3000 ft the barometric pressure will be about 10% lower than it is at sea level (depending on time of year, latitude, etc). That means your engine will be inhaling 10% less air, basically reducing your displacement by the same 10%. Water as a vapor is lighter than air so, as alex said, hot, humid and high altitude bad; cold, dry, sea level, good. Why don't they have a drag racing meet in death valley every january??
2000 4.7 CC auto, clear corners, Magnaflow catback, Kenne Bell s/c.
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rtdkota
R/T
10/22/2002
00:29:21
| RE: RTDKOTA
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Yeah-- the article was a bit of a let down for the Dakota community---
Here's more to the story (since Alex explained part of why/how with alt.)---
Temperature, elevation (you can't call it altitude-- as that is your position in flight above the ground, not sea level) and humidity play a big part in how areas compare, and how you will perform:
The photo shoot and testing was at LACR, which is at 2750' elevation. It was shot in August of 2001-- at about 11:30 am... with humidity in the 50-60% range with thunder boomers in the area... plus a temp of 107 F.... Add all of those factors together, that raises the 'density' elevation to approx 9000' above sea level standard conditions. So, on a cool day, and running at 9000', that's how my truck would have performed. I've actually had the truck above 10,000' going through Colorado, on a 70 F. day-- and it was WAY down on power. There's a website that does correction, and I came out to roughly 14.29 on that calculation, which was 99% accurate, as I ran a 14.3 at Carlsbad raceway (my local ghetto racetrack)-- that's usually in the low 70s, 65-70% humidity, and 245' above sea level.
"4. Tracks like Houston Raceway Park, located at sea level, are where the NHRA Pro Competitors always set records in the early spring, when the air is relatively cool, dense, and dry. Tracks like Phoenix where the altitude of the track is 3000' above sea level are not known for great record-breaking runs."
Uh.. Firebird raceway's elevation is 1300'
In 1999, Tony Schumacher recorded the sport's first 330-mph run (330.26).
Firebird-
1300', 85 F, and about 25-30% humidity = 14.00 NA pass for me this weekend on 1 and only NA pass.
Carlsbad-
245', 70 F, and about 60-70% humidity = 13.98 NA pass for me 4 weeks ago on 1 and only NA pass.
Firebird is a much better facility, and is better prepped... Now, get a cool Friday night this winter (in the 50's F.), dry as a bone, and I'd should be able to swing a 13.7 or better NA...
Sam
RTDKOTA
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2001 QC
Dodge Dakota
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10/22/2002
08:15:56
|  RE: RTDKOTA
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HI THERE DAKATY WHAT HAPPEN TO YOU ON OCT.5 AND 6 AT THE HOUSTON RACEWAY PARK I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO LOOK AT YOUR TRUCK WITH THE 20S HOPE YOU AND THE FAMILY ARE DOING GOOD HOPE TO TALK OR SEE YOU SOON ARTIE
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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10/22/2002
09:02:24
| RE: RTDKOTA
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My bad..... must be too many e-mails from Duner and I lost track between Firebird and Speedworld and Kansas & all that mess.......
I am trying to get a cool nite here in Georgia so I can pick up my own two tenths and run myself a 14.4x or quicker.....
Somehow instead of Autumn, we are in the midst of a rainy, foggy Second March. This weather sucks. The track closes in three weeks and I have obligations one fo those weeks. That leaves me with two eligible weeks. And it's going to rain this week. That leave one eligible week to lay down a final number for the year.....
Mother Nature can suck my left nut.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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10/22/2002
10:46:28
| RE: RTDKOTA
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Supercharged and turbo applications are less effected by altitude then others and the big boys and their huge speeds are also less effected. This is why the Mile High Nationals still produce good times. The higher altitude is also easier to puch a bick through at 300 MPH. Ever notice some of the feild goal kicks they make at Denver stadium? Still for a normal Dakota R/T it is far better to run at sea level, in cold, dry air.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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10/22/2002
11:05:55
| RE: RTDKOTA
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Yeah, but when a Top Fueler runs 4.52's at sea level and can only muster a 5.10 at Denver.... that's waaay off the pace. Sure, it's all relative, but when the difference in 1st and last qualifier is .05, that .50 loss is enough to put you on the trailer on Saturday afternoon.
But, we're talking about R/T's and yes, a race in Death Valley in January would just about be perfect.
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afi360
R/T
10/23/2002
00:49:46
| RE: RTDKOTA
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ive been on the track 3 different days with my kota.
1-bout 78 degrees, pretty humid, 645' (give or take 50') elevation.
2-632' (exact) elevation, beautiful 65 degree night
3-same as #2, only about 60 degrees, little humidity.
my truck ran best on #3....simple as that.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2002
07:21:31
| RE: RTDKOTA
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I'd pay good money to get conditions like your #3 option!
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afi360
R/T
10/24/2002
18:06:14
| RE: RTDKOTA
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well, as far as chicago weather, that was amazing...just wait another 4 hours and ill be under 3 feet of snow....but im not worried...cuz 5 hours from then ill be walking around in shorts again...and so on and so forth.
grr...
but when it is good it IS GOOD. :)
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