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frog
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2002
08:26:51
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 Subject: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Just got my 52mm TB on and working properly. This is the 4th TB I have putt on my truck, but now i feel tremendous loss on the bottom end. Did I go to big too soon, and should I have put my ported 2.02 heads on first, or do a cam swap?
I don't know. Can somebody give me some assistance in getting this thing to run right?
MODS: 5.2L RC
Mopar PCM
MSD 6A
Autolites 3923's (not gapped)
M1-2barrel
52MM Holley TB
Gibson Headers and Cat-back exhaust
1.7 RR's
trans-go shift kit
mopar wires,cap, and rotor
180 t-stat (stant)
iat relocate
tps at 7.51
3:55 gears
What do you think?
Heads are on the way, but this sucks not having my torque....
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Troy
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2002
14:45:13
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
I was told by Bernd, KRC, Dan at the Fastman, Sam at socaldakota.com and others to stick with the 50mm, unless boosted, nitrous, or cam and heads were installed. This way to keep low-end. For a strong top-end, they recommended the 52mm, however, they stated that the 50mm and 52mm flow pretty close to each other and the 50mm still makes good top-end power, too.
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frog
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/07/2002
15:44:32
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
OK, So What happens when I do the Heads?
Must the cam be done or is the 1.7RR's good enough for lift. Also Do I do a stall swap also?
MODS: 5.2L RC
Mopar PCM
MSD 6A
Autolites 3923's (not gapped)
M1-2barrel
52MM Holley TB
Gibson Headers and Cat-back exhaust
1.7 RR's
trans-go shift kit
mopar wires,cap, and rotor
180 t-stat (stant)
iat relocate
tps at 7.51
3:55 gears
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reddak318
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/07/2002
18:36:27
|  RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
I think that the 2.02's are way too much for the 318 IMO. I think ported 192's are perfect. Let me know how it all works out though, i dont see alot of modded 318's out there orange6663@aol.com
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CW
GenIII
10/07/2002
20:35:56
|  RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
If you are going to spend the money on heads you would be dumb to not take advantage of them with a cam.
4.7 HO, CW style
2001 4.7 5sp 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm TB, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" Z-tube, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat, Electric fan Convertion, HO cams, Robert shaw 180 therm, HO intake manifold.
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Zip-E
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2002
21:07:38
|  RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
I've got a 318 man trans reg cab w/the Holley 52mm TBI...my heads are the ported 1.92's...motor runs out great. I've lost some bottom-but not a whole lot. Was strongly advised on the loss of low end with the 2.02 r/t heads and that TB, & even with the proper cam to support it you gotta wind that motor to make power....with auto trans, problems are compounded 'cause of the torque converter...later -Zip
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Brad
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/07/2002
21:27:03
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
I'll be able to tell what ported 1.92" will do for you in a couple of months. Have basically the same set up as yourself except I have 3.9 rearend and the iat adjuster. I had my oem TB ported and it flows close to the 50mm flowmetrics I believe (765 cfm vs 800cfm). I think the 2.02" would be a little much for the 318. Definitely would kill bottom end. One other suggestionif you went with the 2.02's would be to change the rearend to a 3.90. This would aid with the torque loss. One other question, what year is your dak?
Mods
edlebrock headers
flowmaster catback
1.7 rr's crower
iat adjuster
180 tstat
3923's
accel coil, taylor wires
14x3 k&n filter
transgo shift kit
very near future
m1 2bbl intake
ported heads
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frog
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/08/2002
07:28:56
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
98 Dakota is the year Brad.
Well I guess the only reason I am going to the 2.02 heads is because I am going to do 360 bottom end around Christmas. So I guess I am looking at a little torque loss fo a while. I may talk to Marty at KRC about one for my 1.7's. I don't want to get rid of them, but if I have to then I will.
By the way what is the top speed and RPM with the 3.92 gears in the rear? anyone?
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yates-in-DE
GenIII
10/08/2002
08:25:10
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
5 speed manual W/3.92's top speed and rpm's are as follows:
These figures are on stock 255/65R16's
1500 rpm's 45 mph in 5th
2000 rpm's 60 mph in 5th
3000 rpm's 90 mph in 5th
4000 rpm's 120 mph in 5th
4500 rpm's 135 mph in 5th
These figures are on 255/50ZR16's
1680 rpm's 45 mph in 5th
2240 rpm's 60 mph in 5th
3360 rpm's 90 mph in 5th
4480 rpm's 120 mph in 5th
5040 rpm's 135 mph in 5th
All these figures are from experience driving the autobahn here in Germany.
Good Luck,
MyVW Killer
Lynn
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frog
Dodge Dakota
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10/08/2002
12:47:21
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Thanks, Anyone one on the Automatic top speeds (R/T's)?
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Brad
Dodge Dakota
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10/08/2002
15:00:00
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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I still have to put up with the speed limiter on mine. With 3.9's and 275/60/15 75 mph runs about 2500 rpm. Limiter hits hard at 112 mph at about 4000 rpm. Haven't done that in awhile so that might be a little higher.
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frog
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/08/2002
15:57:32
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
I am Running 3.55 gears of course tires are 255/50/17. This makes my Gear Ratio come in at like 3.64 and I can run over 130mph at about 4300 RPM's. Any comments to wether I should spend the money and go to the 3.9's. I think I would be over the 4.0 gear ratio then....
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Zip-E
Gen II
10/08/2002
20:47:31
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
-the higher gears'll improve your 60ft time, but you'll lose the top end...it's all a compromise. Best thing to do is experiment, find a good "happy medium" that works.
...Zip...
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kota on 20s
GenIII
10/09/2002
00:39:20
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
how are you going to "360" the bottom end? you cant just put a crank from a 360. it wont work.
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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kota on 20s
GenIII
10/09/2002
00:47:29
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
BTW, i plan on running unleaded 110 at the track...does this mean that my truck is a race truck?...if so, i have the most tame race truck in the world! i drive the thing everyday, and it has not blown up yet!
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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frog
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/09/2002
07:20:14
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
magnum MPI 5.9L short block (P5007549). Basically turning my sport into an R/T.
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Zip-E
Gen II
10/09/2002
21:40:46
|  RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
hey, Frog-
have you checked out the 318 stroker kit
Hughes Engines offers? Just to introduce another possibility for you....
...Zip...
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frog
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/10/2002
08:22:36
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
No, I have not, I just order up the cam for my truck from Marty@KRC and the non ported 2.02's, Compcams double roller timing chain, and the arp head studs. I'm ordering the gasket kit from felpro today, as well as new waterpump, 19lb injectors from fiveomotorsport.com, new roller lifters, new tstat, new cap and rotor, and whatever else I can think of for the swap over.
WIll see how it runs after this.
Still debating the 166k opar torque converter, and gear changes. WIll wait and see. Money is real good now so maybe I will do it.
Anyone else running a similar setup?
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Zip-E
Gen II
10/12/2002
12:18:50
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
I'd be interested to hear how it works out.
Which cam? KRC220?
...Zip...
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street guy
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/13/2002
11:20:42
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
mopar performance offers a 360 crank that will fit 318 journals, a lot cheaper and just as effective as a new shortblock.
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MoparDude340
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/13/2002
12:19:39
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
You guys don't seem to be paying attention... R...P...M's... Small block Mopars are all about screeming down the track, not pulling down tall buildings at 500rpms. If you guys are all about being "Lighting Killers" "5.0 Sweepers" or whatever else, then do this.
-Tear it down completely
-punch .030 or .060 (I suggest .030 incase you might need to do it again...RRRRRR...BOOOOOM!!) :-(
-deck the block .010
-get the heads you first mention frog
-deck those .010
-2bbl intake
-holley 52mm tb
-bore out the intake to match the 52mm tb and the high flow heads
-no cat
-high flow muffs and mend bent piping
-headers
-3000 stall if auto
-big cam and 1.6rr...or mild cam and 1.7rr
-electric fan
-take off all accessories under the hood
-electric reverse flow water pump
-4.10 richmonds and auburn posi
-10" slicks (minimum)
-that super duper fel pro gasket set
-all arp bolts
-NOSzel Direct Port nitrous system
-some brand of a 6a ignition (MSD, Crane, Mallory) they're all the same now, just different people make them
-a 2 step controller for the juice
-trans go
-24lb injectors
-high volume fuel pump
That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure I'll think of something that I forgot to mention later today, after all you guys read this and start yelling..."what about this!?" "Don't I need to do this if I'm doing that?!"
'98 3.9 RC... A few mods... ;-)
'89 340 RC... I'll never tell... Okay, I might... ;-)
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POWER HUNGRY
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/13/2002
13:30:16
|  RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
IP: Logged
Message:
I think a stroker kit would be better than the short block option. The kit at hughes engines that zip-e was talking about punches the 318 to 390 ci. They come with forged pistons and can also come with billet h-beams rods.
As for the heads, I have read at KRC that the they don't offer the 1.92 ported because thier 2.02's flow beter at low lift. The stroker kit will allow you to turn <6000rpms and make good use of your heads. I would definitely get gears 3.92 or more since the heads will push your powerband up in the rpm band. I have 3.55's in my truck and I think they suck off the line. 4.10 gears with the OD on will turn your motor around 700 RPM's less than your stock gears with OD off.
I would get a cam like a 200-206 @.050 if you want to use the 1.7rr. If you are thinking of stroking the motor a cam around 210-216@.050 with 1.6rr will get your money out of the heads. Krc sells a cam KRC216 that is made for strokers/blower motors with 1.7rr.
It really all depends on what you are looking to get out of your truck. GOOD LUCK AND KEEP US INFORMED.
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rtdkota
R/T
10/13/2002
17:52:57
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
IP: Logged
Message:
Quote from Mopar340
"You guys don't seem to be paying attention... R...P...M's... Small block Mopars are all about screeming down the track, not pulling down tall buildings at 500rpms. If you guys are all about being "Lighting Killers" "5.0 Sweepers" or whatever else, then do this.
-Tear it down completely
-punch .030 or .060 (I suggest .030 incase you might need to do it again...RRRRRR...BOOOOOM!!) :-(
-deck the block .010
-get the heads you first mention frog
-deck those .010
-2bbl intake
-holley 52mm tb
-bore out the intake to match the 52mm tb and the high flow heads"
*Well, if you had a V8 Magnum, you'd already know the stock intake ports or M1-2bbl already match the 52mm... But I'd do a F&B over a Holley-- I get people all the time wanting to trade their Holley in on an F&B... There's got to be a reason! ;)
-no cat
-high flow muffs and mend bent piping
-headers
-3000 stall if auto
-big cam and 1.6rr...or mild cam and 1.7rr
-electric fan
-take off all accessories under the hood
3000 stall on a daily driver isn't going to be a good combo-- 2400 works really good.
-electric reverse flow water pump
-4.10 richmonds and auburn posi
-10" slicks (minimum)
-that super duper fel pro gasket set
-all arp bolts
-NOSzel Direct Port nitrous system
-some brand of a 6a ignition (MSD, Crane, Mallory) they're all the same now, just different people make them
-a 2 step controller for the juice
-trans go
-24lb injectors
-high volume fuel pump
That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure I'll think of something that I forgot to mention later today, after all you guys read this and start yelling..."what about this!?" "Don't I need to do this if I'm doing that?!"
'98 3.9 RC... A few mods... ;-)
'89 340 RC... I'll never tell... Okay, I might... ;-)
Well-- my list of goodies that I run-- with a full exhaust, stock cat-- 12.626 @ 108.40 on a 100 shot (no heater, no gauge, no purge, nada). I run a stock belt, full clutch fan setup, etc. With a few changes-- I could see 12.3 with a little help.
Sam
RTDKOTA
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Zip-E
Gen II
10/14/2002
20:58:25
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
IP: Logged
Message:
Frog,PowerHungry,StreetGuy...
I've heard a lot of good things about this kit..one good thing is you'll be saving weight, and assuming the block is well tempered (got a few miles) boring/stroking is not a big issue. You can use all the toys you already have, and you'll get the bottom from it AND the high rev's, considering the assembly is well balanced.
MoparDude340, Sounds like you're really workin. I come from the old school..where we made big fat cars do 11's or less on pocket change..so I understand all this stuff...great set-ups..good suggestions, Daks are pretty heavy,...I did well with mine just shaving 300lb or so off.
Hey Sam, I'm interested to know, what's your best run on the motor? Later later...
...Zip...
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rtdkota
R/T
10/14/2002
21:14:46
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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First pass on the new setup (with a 2400) was a measly 14.3 (had a 14.18 prior to that).
2nd pass netted a 13.98 w/ a 2.1 60'... Tried a different launch-- Since then I haven't done another NA run-- but plan to this coming weekend at the truckin nationals... From my 98.5 mph trap speed-- I should be running in the 13.6 range.
RTDKOTA
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Zip-E
Gen II
10/14/2002
22:19:58
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
Hey Sam...that's cool... Last best one for me was 13.7, 1.82 60'...I don't remember the mph. I got a good shot out of the box with street rubber on...gonna go w/a shorter wider tire all way around...right now I'm sitting waiting for new heads..most probably putting in a new bumpstick while I'm at it. (Why waste time while it's already apart...?)
What spray setup do you use?
...Zip...
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MoparDude340
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/16/2002
13:49:11
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks for the back up Sam....BUT....I'm hoping that you knew I was referring to the billet holley 52mm TB, not an OEM (the ones that people turn in to you, so you can port, polish, chop up, and sell again.) Personally I'd taken the "billet" Holley over an F&B any day.
Also, you shouldn't assume things either. I have had, and worked on many v8 Mags. There isn't a Mopar motor out there that I haven't tweaked on. Don't worry, I'll let it slide this time... :-)
As far as the stall goes, 3000 isn't too much. I've run 3000 and a 3500 on the street many times, even as a daily driver. Unless you're saying this to the forum, because maybe you don't think these guys know how to drive a stall, and you don't want people calling you back because they aren't happy with it, because they're jack rabbit starting all the time. Anyways, this combo does work, been there done that!
Take care.
'98 3.9 RC... A few mods... ;-)
'88 340 RC... I'll never tell... Okay, I might... ;-)
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kota on 20s
GenIII
10/16/2002
14:19:53
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
IP: Logged
Message:
Zip, are your RT heads ported? how much of a diff did they make?
also, when you did the exhaust, did you loose any torque?
what cam are you running?
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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rtdkota
R/T
10/16/2002
18:33:32
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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Message:
quote Mopardude340:
"Thanks for the back up Sam....BUT....I'm hoping that you knew I was referring to the billet holley 52mm TB, not an OEM (the ones that people turn in to you, so you can port, polish, chop up, and sell again.)"
No I was referring to the Holley billet 52mm. We don't do anything with the stock units (haven't in a few years now). I have had at least 6 people purchase the Holley Billet, then try an F&B, and ended up returning the Holley. Better throttle response (was reported by most), and overall drivability. That's a pure fact. I've got a Holley Billet to play with too..
"Personally I'd taken the "billet" Holley over an F&B any day.
Also, you shouldn't assume things either. I have had, and worked on many v8 Mags. There isn't a Mopar motor out there that I haven't tweaked on. Don't worry, I'll let it slide this time... :-)
As far as the stall goes, 3000 isn't too much. I've run 3000 and a 3500 on the street many times, even as a daily driver. Unless you're saying this to the forum, because maybe you don't think these guys know how to drive a stall, and you don't want people calling you back because they aren't happy with it, because they're jack rabbit starting all the time. Anyways, this combo does work, been there done that!
Take care."
Well-- as I have a 2400, and do drive it on a daily basis-- I can say, the around town gas mileage you deal with sucks. Sure it's cool, and I wouldn't trade it-- but I have people with 3000-3500 stalls (totally driveable), but the driveability (gas mileage wise), sucks. The other thing is the noise factor-- if you have a loud exhaust (rev to 3000 rpm) and plan on hearing and producing that A LOT.. :) Some will like it, others will be annoyed.
There's 25 different ways to bake a cake... LOL.
HAVAGD1.
Sam
RTDKOTA
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frog
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/16/2002
22:57:46
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
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I'm Back.
answer too Zip-E? Not a KRC 220. Marty is setting me up with a custom grind from Comp.
Sam? You haven't called me back about my cam an head install. I can't make it to Truck Nationals. I am studying to much for CCIE.
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Zip-E
Gen II
10/17/2002
23:21:02
| RE: 52MM TB may be too much!
IP: Logged
Message:
Hey, all...
Wassup Eric-answer, no they're not RT heads. Believe it or not-they're the stock heads off the motor, ported and blended with a Crane cam (like the Mopar RT cam) dialed in @around 117. I have a new set of heads coming....I didn't lose any torque w/the exhaust. It took about a year's worth of drawing this, building this, cutting and rebuilding (and Irish luck) that to get the config that worked the best. Right now, it's 2.5 w/a dual 2.5 in/out UltraFlo and an x-pipe. No cats, no rear o2 thanks to Marty's little magic box.
Frog- I want that KRC220 cam when I get my new heads.
M-Dude 340-I meant no disrespect, man. I realize it's all here, and we've all got good ideas to give...sorry if I came off wrong.
Yeh, there IS more than one way to bake a cake... as long as it's a fast cake. Right, Sam?
...Zip...
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