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TJ
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2002
14:42:13
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 Subject: R/T Heads
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Hey guys. I have an 02 cc R/T and just like everybody else, I want more horsepower. I want big gains and dont want a supercharger yet. I was thinking about the R/T heads. What else should I have done to my truck before I get the R/T heads.
I have a cold air intake, magnaflow exhaust, and jet stage II chip(piece of crap). I was also thinking of the M-1 but I heard you lose alot of torque with it, is this true? I dont wanna lose torque. Anyways what kinda performance should I expect to see with the R/T heads? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.
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ME 111
R/T
9/26/2002
15:15:46
|  RE: R/T Heads
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Disclaimer....I know not what I speak...but I think I am close...any critiques appreciated..
I have also given this considerable thought and have been looking out for threads relating to this. I will eventually get a SC but definitely will be doing the CAM, Heads, M1 first. If you do one of these, you might as well do all three as they compliment the he11 out of each other(100HP approx is what I understand)....especially better for the SC afterwards.
I think that for every 1psi of boost you will net an additonal 8% of HP. So if you can get your HP up to 325-350 before the SC...you'd be looking at close to 500HP modestly depending on how much boost you give it. Having said that...Torque will not be an issue with me. Going too crazy will dictate serious changes with your drivetrain so I will attempt to get my beast as far as I can without having to go that route.
Flame Red '99 R/T CC
52mm TB - HomeBrewed K&N Intake - 3923 AutoLites - Relocated IAT - TPS @.73 - 180 TStat
Falken 285/60/R17s on Rear - RoadMaster Active Suspension - SS rollpan - XTang soft Tonneau - Mopar Bra
And one Heavy Foot
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Anthony G
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2002
16:09:47
|  RE: R/T Heads
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Message:
I have every bolt on mod other than a Custom PCM flash, I might try the Power Programer III soon.
Best power for the dollar would be a supercharger.
Heads might give you 15hp on a stock engine at most. Not to mention tearing down the engine to the block. I did all the work myself, I can't imagine the labor cost If I had someone else do it.
Here is a ruff price list of what it takes to make supercharged power on a N/A engine.
K&N FIPK2=$200-250
M1 INTAKE=$350-450
R/T HEADS=$1100-2000
Cam=$300
Gaskets=$100-150
Bolts=$50-100
Headers=$300-450
Roller Rockers=$300-450
F&B TB=$350-450
Valve Covers=$100
PCM=$300-650
Now that supercharger prices with out labor
$3400 to $5350
Try removed all the bolt on's if you every want to sell the truck. Just my suggestion.
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big_torque
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2002
16:45:14
| RE: R/T Heads
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Do the M1. Its a great mod. Opened up the power in the high rpms. Seat - of - the - pants feel , not much if any TRQ loss.
If youre gonna do heads , might as well do the M1 also. Dont really have to get a cam. You can go with 1.7 rockers. But I think more power with cam. Good luck with yer decision.
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rtdkota
R/T
9/26/2002
16:52:23
| RE: R/T Heads
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Message:
Well-- a 4bbl M1 will lose a bit of low end-- 20 ft. lbs. on my application. But, I gained 16 hp...AND.. the entire torque curve, though not as high, is much broader.
But the M1 is best suited for a cam that is designed for midrange/top end.
So, what to do--
Here's what I did, with cost.
Stock - 204 hp and 270 torque
then -
M1-4bbl (get the 2bbl) - ~$380
PPH headers - $425
Crower 1.7s - $425
Mopar Valve Covers - $125
Cat back exhaust - $350
F&B 52mm - $430
K&N FIPK - $180 (I scored on that one!)
-- I stopped there, was happy with the 256 hp @ 305 torque
Then said "Man I want MORE..."
So, MSD6A ~$140
RT 1.92 heads (non ported) $1100
Crower custom cam $280
JP Timing Chain $80
----------------------
285 hp, 325 torque
Total price - ~$3915~
Then I thought-- "I want to see 12s!"
So...
Basic NX kit w/gauge - $450
ET Slicks and Rims - $350
HP? Torque ?
We will see--- :)
I put out nearly 110 more hp than stock at 5400 rpm... and 100 more ft. lbs. of torque a 5000 rpm.
Who needs a blower?
:P
Sam
(though I wouldn't mind one of those too!)
RTDKOTA
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99SCRT
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2002
17:00:53
| RE: R/T Heads
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I was wondering if anyone is running the R/T heads in CA. I have heard that they are not legal because they don't pass the visual. Does anyone know for sure? I think if they pass the sniffer, then most places out here wouldn't even know the difference.
Thanks
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FlameRed01
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2002
17:02:17
| RE: R/T Heads
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the R/T heads manifold would be comparable to having a 100 shot anytime.
not many R/T's with 360's make 500 hp, especially with just heads and a s/c. you need alot more minor, major mods, and "professional tweakage". and if you did get your R/T up to 500hp you're gonna have head gasket problems and eventually destroy your motor sooner or later. get a 408 worked to the bone.
be careful when ADDING hp numbers
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kota on 20s
GenIII
9/26/2002
17:58:16
| RE: R/T Heads
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there are a lot of people running heads in CA. how are they going to tell by looking at them that they are not leagle?
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, carsound cat, dumped gibson
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MikeD
*R/T*
9/26/2002
18:35:46
| RE: R/T Heads
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I have the R/T heads and I think they are a great mod (when combined w/ everything else).
I was sent the 1.92 R/T heads by mistake and I had already put them on when I got the correct 2.02 heads sent to me, so I had the luxury of testing out which heads were better.
Here's my combo...
.512/.512 Cam $265
2.02 R/T Heads $1600
M-1 2bbl $375
52mm TB $500
Kenne Bell Flash $350
JBA Headers $415
14x3 Open Element $80
True Dual 3" exhaust $350
Mopar Performance Wires $60
That total is about the same as a SC but from dyno #'s I've seen on R/T's w/ just a SC on em and nothing else...they are only pulling on average of 265-290HP.
On the dyno I pulled 313rwhp w/ the 1.92 heads but once I swapped them w/ the 2.02's I could definatley tell it added some extra HP. I'd do everything you can before you put the SC on.
~Mike~
Get In...Sit Down...Shutup...& Hangon
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big_torque
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/26/2002
18:51:48
| RE: R/T Heads
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hey rtdkota,
You went from 256 HP to 285 HP with heads , cam , ignition and timing chain ? Doesnt seem like much gain with all that. 30 HP for 1600 bux worth of stuff ? I dunno if I would be happy with those #s.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
9/27/2002
01:30:10
| RE: R/T Heads
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Message:
mike, are you using the stock y-pipe?
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, carsound cat, dumped gibson
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MikeD
*R/T*
9/27/2002
08:51:21
| RE: R/T Heads
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Message:
LOL no nothing is stock anymore about my exhaust. Its 3" from the tip of the headers all the way to the mufflers. The exhaust guys didn't do the factory type crossover...instead what they did is they extended the drivers side a little further down then crossed over right at the tip of the tranny so its not such a long crossover like the factory setup. They guy built a custom heat sheild cuz the pipe is beside the fuel lines. Its an awesome setup, I've had 2 other buddies take theirs to mirror my setup.
Definatley wakes the truck up lettin it breathe better.
~Mike~
Get In...Sit Down...Shutup...& Hangon
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rtdkota
R/T
9/27/2002
10:20:52
| RE: R/T Heads
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Message:
-- big_torque --
Well-- I have accomplished a few things-- First off, MOST of the guys running 2.02 valves (showing 300+ hp at the rears), when they run at the track-- show some pretty disappointing 1/4 mi times, but GREAT mph--(that shows the low end loss). So they add gears... Then the thing comes alive. 4.56 gears with the driving I do on a semi daily basis (I have another daily driver now).. were not feasible.
Now, there's another thing to consider-- and this is why I sat down with 'the man' at Crower and got the cam that I have-- I wanted something that had good low end, and killer midrange... I have achieved this. The PEAK hp numbers aren't as high as others out there-- but the curve is much broader and the torque peaks at 3800 and doesn't fall off a whole lot until about 5100 rpm...
I am running a 4bbl M1 as well-- and will be switching to a 2bbl M1 down the road to check how that setup works with my cam/head combo. My 13.98 was on my 2nd pass on this setup, I feel there's another .1 or so that it'll come down-- the converter is REALLY different than launching with the stock unit (I have the mopar 166k).
To cap this all off-- I'm going to run tomorrow (with my NX kit) for the first time-- Hoping for a sub 12.99 pass, which I've been told by many to be expected.
The actual numbers increase don't paint the whole picture (a peaky HP/torque, unless really high, will lose to a well rounded curve). My truck ran fairly well with the list of mods I had prior to the heads/cam... Sure I could have gone more radical on the cam, but wanted to play it safe...It's got a nice idle now, and I wouldn't want to have more than that (CA. is getting real strict on exhaust noise-- and I have a noisy truck as it is with this setup). Looking at the overall package I have-- More HP than a SC (torque is less, but that's expected comparing a SC to NA), for about the same price...PLUS, I can easily run N02-- No timing retard box, etc.
Sam
RTDKOTA
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MikeD
*R/T*
9/27/2002
11:08:32
| RE: R/T Heads
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Message:
Well on my combo I have the same torque at the rearwheels than they advertise the R/T has at the Flywheel.
Sure I have disappointing times but that doesn't have anything to do w/ low end loss cuz I have gobs of low end even w/ the big valves. My problem area is mastering the tree and getting some slicks to get the power to the ground.
I compared my times to when I raced w/ slicks borrowing them from a friend one time and I gained about half a second and that was when I had the 1.92 heads on. If I had slicks now and I can figure out when to launch w/ a decent RT I'd be in the mid to low 13's.
~Mike~
Get In...Sit Down...Shutup...& Hangon
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99SCRT
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/27/2002
16:03:33
| RE: R/T Heads
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Message:
Hey Eric, do you know people who have taken their trucks to smog with the R/T heads on? I am itchin to get a set but want to make sure I smog. I am not up for switching heads every 2 years.
I thought my numbers would be higher with my mods:
Vortech SC 6.5 psi
52mm TB
mopar cam
gibson headers
flowmaster exhaust
taylor wires
autolites
crane hi-6
281rwhp 345rwtq
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big_torque
Dodge Dakota
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9/27/2002
16:30:19
| RE: R/T Heads
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Message:
I see. I just thought your peak #s would be a little higher. But if you get a nice broad powerband out of it thats just as good. Thanks.
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rtdkota
R/T
9/28/2002
01:44:01
| RE: R/T Heads
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Message:
There's still some testing to be done with the converter (I've only had 1 good pass on a crappy track)... so we will see tomorrow (cooler temps, and all the time I need to test/tune).
NX kit install has started, and will be finished early in the morning-- can't wait... Kinda like being a kid on Xmas eve...Is it MORNING YET?
LOL... I'll be happy with a good 13.00 or so to start out with... 75 shot first...
Sam
RTDKOTA
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kota on 20s
GenIII
9/28/2002
01:48:14
| RE: R/T Heads
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Message:
i dont know anyone with heads that has had to smog it yet. i could be wrong, but i think the heads would help it pass smog, because it is helping the engine breath better. also, since they sniff at 15mph, and at low rpm, it probably wouldnt matter much.
if you are really worried about it, i would just wait untill someone passes with them.
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, carsound cat, dumped gibson
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