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Dakota Performance
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GSMarquis
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2002
21:17:25

Subject: Engine Managment
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i always see engine managment systems for hondas, toyotas, etc..... is there a engine managment system for our 4.7 engines that is programable like AEM's is for hondas?



sandman
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2002
22:24:03

RE: Engine Managment
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You can get a custom configurable ECM system from Motec, and Hal-Tec amoung others. I like Motec. I have used them on alot of imports and a few American V-8. You will need a laptop though to program the unit and a dyno to realy dial it in. You can often use a beta map to get the car or truck running and then you tune the the betta map to match your engine. If you do not know what you are doing you should read up a lot first and hang out with some custom tuners. You realy have to understand fuel mapping and ignition timming to play with these. Once you get the hang of it they are realy not that hard. Once you do enough of the same engine you keep notes and base maps on floppy to load up each time you do one and just fine tune it. In the old days you had to change jets, metering block,annual booster style,accelerator pump, metering rods, adjust regulator, adjust timing, dwell, you had to play with weights and spring tension to get timing curve right.....Now you just point, click and type. You can have one map for street and another for the strip. You can have real time data loging...



Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2002
10:43:11

RE: Engine Managment
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I think the FAST unit from KRC performance allows you to do that too ... I know nothing about it though. it is $2499



CThomp
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2002
12:41:42

RE: Engine Managment
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But if you're just looking for a "plug n play" type of programmer like a hypertech or something like that forget about it. I think many people are still waiting for something that can be programmed in the truck without a laptop and is affordable. Things like motec and haltech cost almost as much as a blower.



cudashoe
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9/06/2002
13:33:18

RE: Engine Managment
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When and IF they ever, its a must for me.

2000 4.7 5- speed, 1989 Shelby #799 White

sandman
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2002
23:43:00

RE: Engine Managment
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With OBD-II you will never see performance gains with a plug and play toy like hypertec. With standalone ignition and fuel ecm's you can do anything you like within the limits of the engines ability to hold together. If you want to squeeze out 2 HP per CI with out forced induction or oxidizer you can. You have to I repeat have to ditch the stock ECM!!!! If you want to run 28.8 PSI of boost you can! Trying to make the factory computer perform is like trying to turn a turd into a diamond. No matter how much you polish that turd you still have a turd. Their is a reason that companys like Motec and Haltec are still in business. Even a factory CPU that has been reflashed is no match for standalone after market ECM. THe factory ECM's are slow and are still bound by very tight fuel maps and ignition curves. You would be hard pressed finding someone that could flash a factory ecm to compensate for huge cam, 12:1 compression ration, 10,000 RPM redline and No2 let alon have it control the the No2 and monitor O2 sensors to enrich fuel mixture past it's limit curve to keep from detonateing a piston. Do not think about controling water injsection or boost..... All these things can be intergrated and controled with after market ECM's and other black boxs. If you want to have real time data loging that is user extractable for review later you are out of luck with OEM. THe OEM ECM has the potential to do all of these things better then after market since they already do alot of these things anyway. The problem is that they have not been designed to be user hackable. The are actualy designed with counter measures to try to defeat attempted performance hacks. IF someone could decompile their code, rewrite it and then install a faster and larger cpu the factory harness could be modified to controll any number of things. The larger CPU would be for additional pages of storage. THe factory ECM is the second bigest performance blocking aparatus on this engine. The first and bigest problem of all is the piston's design. I would like to see what the HO 4.7 could do with a Motec and alot of boost?????



Muzzy
GenIII
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9/07/2002
05:34:49

RE: Engine Managment
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I have to concur that getting an aftermarket ECU is not for the beginner. I built my own fuel injection system for a Mustang drag car I used to race. Sandman is right about the factory ECU. The flash only allows adjustment to certain functions and only to a point. You will never see over 32 degrees of full advance with a stock ECU. All the algorithms are designed to cause the ECU to meet emissions.

I used a DFI unit for my Mustang and started from scratch. It took about 5 hours of playing just go get the car to start. Then about another 40 hours to get it driveable. After 3 months of tuning, I had a stroker 351W that made 625HP. That was with a mechanical roller cam (.618/635 lift, 288/292 dur, 106 lobe sep), 12.5:1 compression, and serious head work. There is no way a factory ECU would work for that.

With a performance ECU, you could just throw away your cats. Evaporator/purge system...gone. Any other emissions component would become a paper weight. You only would need one O2 sensor. You could also go with Wide Band O2. That allows you to keep the engine in closed loop at WOT. You can then adjust the mix via a ratio instead of injector pulse width.

It's a great option if you have the time and the cash. Most people use their Dak as a daily driver and don't have time to custom tune an ECU. One other negative is you can ruin your motor quickly with bad tuning. Too lean on top burns holes in pistons and too rich causes abrasive carbon build-up. Let us know if you do it. I would like to know how well it works for you.

-Muzzy

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his"
-Gen George S. Patton

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