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CW
GenIII
 
5/16/2002
20:55:56
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 Subject: RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Duner you have mail. There are about 7 pics of the 4.7 head from different angles. Let me know if you want any other angles.:)
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods.
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D
Dodge Dakota
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5/16/2002
21:26:00
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Duner: I agree, I bought mine without even
looking at the gear ratio, I just hope that the LS
unit I just bought from chrysler is the entire
"center section" with 3.92 gears, cause it cost
me $400, and that is supposed to be cost +
10%
my auto is a lot slower than the 5 spd's, but
when transgo releases their shift kit.... hehehe
plus, I live in LA, anyone who has sat in traffic
on the 5 freeway at 5:30 will tell you "man I
wish I had an auto."
BTW, picking up the Intake Manifold
tomorrow...cams and LS should be on their
way.
D
01/4.7/CC/mods/DJMdrop3-6
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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5/16/2002
21:55:53
|  Pics?
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CW - I haven't seen anything yet....
duner@cox.net?
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CW
GenIII
5/16/2002
22:01:34
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Hmmm. I will try again. That is the address that I used.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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5/16/2002
23:23:42
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Duner I'll be the first R/T owner to lay it down right now, if they make a 4.7/automatic Dakota R/T that can run a good 1/2 sec faster then the current R/T pure stock (I'd say it would need to go 14.2 or 14.3) then I'll sell my R/T and buy one. I've got no problem with the 4.7 motor as long as it's faster with all other varibles the same. It's my understanding that the 4.7 block is much shorter then the LA block to fit then new grand cherokee's engine compartment better. I think the stock 3.66 in bore is about all it can take. There may be more room in the stroke but I bet not enough to make close to 408. Plus it only took them 30+ years to make the LA stroker crank, maybe they will get the 4.7 done in 1/2 the time (2014). It just always makes me sick to see Mopar guys crap all over their heritage, the LA motor has been the backbone of mopar performance longer then any other motor in Mopar history. From the Baracuda Formula S in the mid 60's, to the Cuda AAR and challenger T/A of 1970, To the E58 360 Duster of 74, to the Super Coupe and the Little Red Express of 78, to the gen II magnum Dakota in 92, to the R/T today. Almost 40 years of great cars just to be dismissed so eagerly, (OK 30 years because you pretty much have to throw out the 80's!) 37 or Richard Petty's 200 wins came with this motor, thats more then any other motor for him besides the 426 Hemi, and now Sterling Marlin is leading the cup points with it again. You can say the parts are all different but bottom line it's a LA deep down.
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Jeffster
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
01:05:41
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Hey 4.7 guys. Remember the dark days when we all had to defend our trucks against the R/T boys. LOL. "No way a 4.7 is as fast as a 5.9 R/T" was the constant theme of the day. Then it became... Well ya mabye they are both just as quick but there are no real mod's for that engine and it will take years before there are any.
Now in the last few months it's the 5.9 ers standing up to protect their trucks.
Don't worry they are both nice. As much as I love my 4.7 5 speed and think it is a touch faster I will however admit the feeling of test driving that reg cab 5.9 R/T was unforgetable. The out of the hole TQ felt unbeleivable and I would own either truck and love it just the same.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
01:23:25
| Heritage?
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Hahahaha You better hope that the first 4.7 R/Ts don't get tested at Cecil first then! hahaha Everybody knows that Cecil is good for that 1/2 second even if it ran the same speeds! Around here if a new 4.7 was to run 15.0s it would be 1/2 second quicker than most of the stock RTs I've seen.
The 4.7's deck height is .51" shorter than the LA engines (9.09" vs 9.60"), and they cut that distance right off the tops of the pistons. It still uses a 6.5" rod and it has a 3.40" stroke. The stock bore is 3.66" and it's on a 4.09" spacing. Since there's no cam in the way, it could probably use quite a bit of stroke, but would need a shorter rod since there's simply no more room between the wrist pin and the rings. Like I said before... you wouldn't need to go to a 408 cubed engine to get the same performance. To be honest, I don't know why anybody would bother going thru all the trouble to build a stroker anyway. When all you have to do is add forced induction and turn up the boost...
I still stand by the statement that efficiency IS a replacement for displacement..... at least if you are talking about a STREET engine. Sure for all out "money is no object" racing it doesn't hold water, but then if that were the case - who would bother with a puny little 408 when they could go with a BIG engine?
I'm also not sure exactly what you mean about Mopar guys crapping all over their heritage. Classic Mopars are just that - Classic. They have a long and prestigious heritage. I don't think anybody is dismissing it easily, but staying with the older LA engine design has reached it's end. In fact, I think they tried to keep it around for too long as it is. How long do you think DC can stick with a 37 year old design and still compete in the modern marketplace? How many R/T guys wish they could break into the 14s and have spent hundreds if not thousands to get there? How many R/T guys wish they could get better than 14 miles to the gallon? The only way it's gonna happen from the factory is with a modern, efficient engine. Just because the engine family has heritage doesn't make it any more efficient or usable in the future. Emission standards are just gonna get tougher. Fuel mileage standards are gonna do the same thing. Not to mention the fact that consumers don't like getting poor fuel mileage. They also really like it if they can have performance from the factory and not have to add expensive mods and worry about passing emission tests. OK, I will certainly admit that MOST R/T guys LOVE adding mods, but consumers in general aren't into it like we are! I'm not saying the LA engines are a bad design, or not powerful. But somewhere - sometime the manufacturer has to modernize if it wants to stay in business.
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
10:48:46
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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I seem to remember reading somewhere that the 4.7 can only be enlarged to around 330 CID (about 5.4L), and yes, the engine is MUCH shorter when compared to the LA block. I was looking at a friend's 5.2 and my 4.7, there's alot more room for the fan(s) in my engine bay.
Maybe Dodge will bring back the 318 in the form of a SOHC :)
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Todd Bouton
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
11:30:36
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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'D'
Lets not start this argument all over again!!
I live in Houton TX. When I sit in traffic here, I NEVER, AND I MEAN NEVER, wish I had an auto.
I get so riled when I hear an auto guy trying to justify the shi^^y performance, shift points?, etc. of the POS auto they they are driving by tryin to put down a standard tranny.
If you like your auto, at anytime, then I'm glad.
Dont talk about what you ain't got.
Come to the Houston area, drive with me for awhile. HELL, I JUST HAD 3 LIGAMENT RECONSTRUCTION SURGERY, ON MY LEFT KNEE. One week later, I'm driving my truck no problem.
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Todd Bouton
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
11:34:47
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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hey 'D', just reread your post again!
Waht the F#ck! Any one who has ever sat in traffic? LIke I said come to Houston if you want to talk traffic, I would say, man, I'm glad I DON'T have a heavy, POS, shift when it wants, auto!
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B1llyw
GenIII
5/17/2002
11:47:30
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Well, I can't say much for R/T's because I wanted a quad cab. But if I could have gotten a 5-speed with the 5.9 in my quad cab I probably would have gotten that instead of my 4.7.
Bill White - 2002 QC 4x4, SLT , 4.7, 5 spd, 3.92's w/LSD, Airaid, MBRP Super Single, Hurst T-Handle, BFG A/T's, IAS Shocks, 180 T-Stat, Jet Chip - Stage II
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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
11:49:41
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Yer gettin way to upset about a transmission Todd.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
12:47:15
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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I agree motor have to progress but almost always the "progress" is for federally mandated bullsh.. They are made to reduced emissions and increase gas mileage. If they wanted to increase performance they would have made the 4.7 a 5.7. Thank god that they are making the 5.7 hemi, it is a worthy replacement of the 5.9 IMO. I could care less if it ges better gas mileage and better emissions, it does do it but it also adds a notible performance increase. That is the way it should be. Why did doge spend millions on the 4.7? it wasn't to increase power, it was to improve emissions and reduce fuel useage. That's fine if that's what consumers want, but I say it's not necessarily what consumers want. Its what the anti-capitolist, enviromental nazi, left wing wacos want. If the consumer wants better mileage and emissions they can buy a 4 or 6 cylinder. If they removed half of the emission garbage they could improve the gas mileage a bunch as well. Why reduce dependance on foreign oil by increasing feul economy standards when they could just reduce emissions standards and get increased feul standards. They are just going to end up making the trucks and SUV's made with lightweight weak frames and bodies, and end up killing as many that died in the terrorist attacks, every year in traffic accidents. I guess herin lies my true anamosity with the 4.7, it was forced down our throats by the likes of Al Gore and his cronies. The 5.7 is a slap in their face, yeh we can improve the emissions and feul economy a bit... and add 100 HP baby! See thats more the Dodge of the 60's. Maybe these Germans know something about making cars after all. At least we don't see nothing but 4 cylinder, FWD, turbos like in the 80's under Iacocca.
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YJ
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
13:44:55
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Don't talk about what you ain't got? Wait, I thought the autos were the extra option on my 4.7. LOL ; )
Seriously, Todd. Come up to the Seattle area and try the traffic for a few days. Then keep your panty-hose on when people stare in awe at your ill-proportioned gigantic left leg. ; ) Had a manual for years but never again. It was great to have a manual in high-school or college when you could eek a bit of extra performance out of your $2000 4 banger, but these dakotas are down-right quick and powerful. Manual or Auto. Besides, I like drinkin' coffee, talkin' on the phone on my way to the office.
YJ
Black 2K QC 4x4 4.7 3.92 KVT910DVD
Black 91 YJ 4LHO Borla | 5" | 33MT
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
14:04:51
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Hersbird, your Montana heritage is shining thru a bit much here. This was a discussion about how to set up a 4.7 motor. Sorry that Al Gore enacted a ban on pushrod motors. All I've got to say is.... if I can stay even with an R/T in a quarter mile, stay even with an R/T on the highway, get 10 more mpg than the R/T, and still keep the air a little cleaner for my family to breathe then YIPPIE HOORAY for Al Gore and the environmental Nazi force.
Like Duner said..... EFFICIENCY is the key.
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
15:16:38
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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speaking of turbos, think my dad would mind me borrowing the one off his '99 Cummins Ram for use on my '02 4.7 Dakota? :)
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
15:31:57
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Haha, actually alex...! Hersbird lives in the most hippie-liberal-fruitcake-infestation in this State. He's quite outnumbered down there..
But bravo to Hersbird on that rant!
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
15:37:47
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Must be a college town.... Missoula? Guess the patchouli/armpit stink finally got to him. At least the hippie chicks here in Atlanta shave their legs. Hahahahahaaaa
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
17:04:24
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Lol, *ding* alex is correct!
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D
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
17:13:24
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Todd...I had a 5 spd S-10, I had a choice of a 5
spd dak, but I wanted the comfort of owning
an auto. I dont think its that much slower than
a 5 spd, unless the owner of the 5 spd really
knows how to drive his/her car.
Man, did I offend you todd? dont worry, when
we are all pushing 350+horses in our 4.7's,
we will see whos rearend breaks first at the
track, the auto's or the 5 spds.....dump the
clutch at the wrong RPM's and its ugly.
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
17:39:11
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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hehe, dumping the clutch is not exactly an accident.
Is this a 5spd vs auto battle, how fun.
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Dave Mitchell
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
19:44:37
|  RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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I just wish I could have gotten my Quad Cab with a torquey diesel in it!
I like the 4.7. The complaint I have against it, however is that the torque curve is rather "spikey"... I think the flat torque curve of the 5.9 is much more attractive for a pickup truck/towing application. Having the maximum torque up at 3200 RPM is not ideal for pulling a boat out of the water on a boat ramp, especially with a manual transmission. BUT... Yes... I have the manual transmission.
The peak at 3200 seems ideal for a downshift on a freeway to get yourself out of a bad situation, though. Did that while taking the father-in-law to the airport. Surprised him that my "little" truck seemed to have a lot of "poop" compared to his GMC Sierra Club cab.
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BLK00DAK
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
19:54:38
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Anyone remember the huge 4.7 VS 5.9 arguments that went on in all of the Dakota forums a year or two ago? They ended with everyone saying that the 4.7's are fast because of the 5-speeds, so the 45RFE's must suck. With no evidence whatsoever, no quarter mile times, no dyno charts, nothing, we 45RFE owners get an unearned reputation for being slow just to make the R/T guys happy... I feel like Poland in WWII.
The first two links below show dyno #'s for 4.7 automatics. One had a TB and pulled 218 RWHP, the other was bone stock and put down 209 RWHP. I also remember a Mopar magazine getting 208 RWHP out of a stock 4.7 auto (The air filter MAY have been removed). I don't have a link to it but maybe someone can verify it?
http://www.dodgedakota.net/boards/per/25.html
http://www.todayssuv.com/archives/features/0801_features02.shtml
Okay, so I've got the dyno numbers, the 45RFE isn't a power robbing slushbox, that's irrefutable, but what about 1/4 mile times? I don't like to post other people's times so for the answer to that all you have to do is browse this or any other Dak forum, the RC, 4.7, auto's run low 15's stock. The autos may not be as fast as a properly driven R/T or 4.7 5-speed, but they're not far behind. These aren't ricers where the automatics are a full second slower than their manual counterparts.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2002
22:11:00
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Sorry about the rant, but Rush was on and I was getting hot at "El Diablo" and his usual anticks... But come on, help my family breate better and get 10 MPG more? I think that's streatching it. When I grew up in my clean little Montana town we lived with stage 1 and 2 pollution alearts probably 70% of the time in the winter. We now haven't had one since the big fires two years ago. Is it because they took away our big blocks and carbs? No they took away our fireplaces. There is so much more that pollutes our air (mostly natural things) then a 360. Plus I only drive 2 miles and about 5 minutes to work so even if my truck pollutes 5 times as much as a Honda Civic I still am contributing less to pollution then a Honda driver who choses to live 15 miles from work. Since I am no longer allowed to burn logs in my fireplace, I burn tires on the commute instead! Speaking of dike hippies (you did mention dikes right?) a couple of years ago the Rainbow family was in town eating up the local food bank while driving BMWs to their annual "pack the ground to concrete, crap in a trench, and generally kill the forest" gathering, the Hells Angles held their annual gather in our town, at least it's interesting here. Where Xplikt lives is better, they are a right wing stronghold with a radio talk show announcer that makes Rush look like a liberal! He gets the locals to boycot enviromentalist businesses instead of the other way around. That's my kind of town!
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/18/2002
11:23:53
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Ahh, The Edge radio station, flippin' loons, but ya gotta love 'em.
Speakin' of transmissions, I got my letter from my local dealership yesterday that some parts to be fixed under warranty were in. I read it, ok, my compressor and handle are on there, but one strange thing though, it said clutch, qty of 1 on there. I did not ask for a clutch, mine works fine, but hey, a free clutch, hell yeah! If I knew it was for certain I was getting a new one -- not a mistake -- I would do a couple major high rpm dumps before tuesday, lol.
Yey for new clutch, not an easy or cheap thing to replace. Only problem is, they are going to be under my truck. Hehe, lets just hope they don't take too much notice to the exhaust..
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Quad47
Dodge Dakota
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5/19/2002
22:43:54
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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More than likely it's the A/C clutch, you mentioned a compressor.
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/19/2002
22:49:41
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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Quad47, I think you are right. I thought about it afterwards, and I thought it had to be the A/C clutch -- forgot about that one. Wish they let me know a lil more on what they are ordering too.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2002
21:05:35
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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xplikt, does Kari Dodge give you any crap for buying your truck from Dave Smith? They shouldn't, the dealer actually makes more on service then they do on new cars when they are selling for $300 over invoice. I just thought they may act like your putting them out, giving them the work.
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2002
23:21:44
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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No, the parts department is actually pretty cool, it's mostly the sales staff that are weasels (sp?). I'll tell ya what though, they were not happy when they gave me a bunch of test drives and such, but I bought from Dave Smith. The one reason in particular I left was becase they told me "why would you want to buy from Ronan or Dave Smith, if you had any car trouble you would have to go way down there to get it fixed and hang around there all day." That was a big no-no.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2002
12:35:52
| RE: The Perfect 4.7L Package!!
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I tokk a couple of test drives here in Missoula, but they said they don't order 2wd so I would need a huge deposit (3 weeks later they had a new 2wd 4.7 auto CC on the lot, liars). Then I went to Ronan. They were really cool, The parts manager there has a CC R/T, with about every MP mod on it but the heads. He let me test drive his personal truck, alone no less. Somebody there screwed up the order though and they couldn't get it made as a 2001, and the 2002 would have been $1500 more because of rebates, so I ended up with a used one from C.D.L Idaho (how do you really spell that damn town?) I'd like to go back to Ronan to get parts, but I'm afraid that they won't cut me any deals now I shopped elsewhere. I don't think they expected me to find a used one anywhere short of Seattle, so they figured I come crawling back!
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