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kawzx7
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
09:02:38
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 Subject: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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I was on my way to work today, and I got the balls to try something I had read awhile back. One guy said if you turn the starter key to "start" when approaching the top speed limiter(96 MPH on my 4.7CC) and hold the key to start, you will break through the limiter. It worked!!! No starter grinding noises or anything. The engine continued to accelerate. The needles on the dash went into a test mode, as if I were starting the truck, but that's it. Let off the key, and the speedo read 110, but the engine cut due to being over the limiter. When it dropped below 96, the engine started back up again, and off I went.
Bottom line CW, or anyone else, is this gonna hurt anything???? If I can use this technique, I can save $400 by not having to go to any aftermarket guys JUST to remove the top speed governor, my biggest beef I have with my beast.
Later
Chris
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
09:26:44
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Concievably with the manuals haveing a clutch-start lockout. I can see where it wouldn't hurt anything. I don't know if the autos have a park/neutral-start lockout as well.
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Todd Bouton
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
11:16:32
|  RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Must be an auto with that limiter, right? Pretty cool idea though to bypass the limiter that way.
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kawzx7
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
11:22:24
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Yep, it's an auto. I'm pumped!!!!
I want to hear from the "experts" here if I will screw up anything. CW!!!! You out there?
Later guys
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Nick99
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
11:27:20
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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What about man trans what do I do ???can you go as fast as you want??
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kawzx7
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
11:29:17
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Dunno, maybe try the same thing in 4th or 5th??
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fatty
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
11:34:46
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Pushing in clutch???whenim fixing to hit the gov mine is 110 can I go like 130??
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kawzx7
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
14:03:11
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Message:
No, fatty, I mean turn the key to start while you approach 110 and hold it while accelerating. If you have earlier model year, you might grind the starter, just warning ya. It seems on mine there is a starter "safety" lockout that prevents grinding the starter.
Later
Chris
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CW
GenIII
4/03/2002
14:32:24
|  RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Can't see it hurting anything. At least not off hand. I am not sure exacly how it does it though.
2001 4.7 RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods.
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Dakattack
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
14:53:30
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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IF you guys had a man trans, you wouldnt have to worry about governing out. Unless my truck is a rare exception, ill go till my motor blows.
'00 dakota rc 4.7 5spd sport plus
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kawzx7
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
15:38:40
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Message:
(Putting my intuition cap on):
CW:
I think it may confuse wherever the computer gets the speed signal from. Did you not say before that the output shaft on the tranny does this? I remeber you saying the measurement of the input shaft and output shaft tells the computer how much "slip" to put in the tranny. I was wondering how the tranny would behave if it is getting a "false signal", i.e., I'm going 110 but it thinks I'm going slower? What do you think CW, let's get that brain in gear. I'm psyched to do some speed tests this wknd.!!!! I'll have the wife pace me in her Escape or my Mustang GT!
Speeders prison, here I come!
Theoretically, if the comp. thinks I'm stopped, I could go 96 MPH(comp. seeing 0) + 96 MPH(comp seeing 96) = 192 MPH. Doubt that big rock will go that fast, nor would I want to go that fast!!
:)
Later
Chris
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kawzx7
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
15:40:29
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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The only downside is, I have no speedo with the key to "start", but if I'm going over 80, I'm speeding in this state, so it doesn't matter much after that-----I'm going to the pokey!
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conig
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
17:17:44
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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I wonder if some kind of switch could be rigged up so when you aproach the limiter you could just flip a switch
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
17:41:38
| 1 Handed Racin'
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I don't know about you guys..... but I REALLY like the idea of having both hands on the wheel when I'm exceeding 100 mph or more. Although, the thought of somebody driving at 125 mph while trying to start their vehicle on purpose - just sounds hilarious to me! LOL This post just simply proves that we are all SPEED CRAZED individuals that are constantly looking for ways to work the system. Where there's a will, there's usually a way.
dagblastedhotroddersarealwaystryingtogofasterthantheyshouldwhenthemanufacturerandgovernmentdoestheirbesttoslowthemdown....it'llallleadtoruinationItellya!mumblemumblemumbleoldfarttalk.....
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moparjoe20
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
17:54:16
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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One way you may be able to do it is to disable the speed sensor on the rearend , the one on my girlfriend's '99 dakota went out 2 days ago and I had to fix it today. Granted you don't have a speedo or abs brakes but if it's not getting a signal on how fast it is going how does the computer know when to limit your speed.The truck still drove normal , I guess you could put a switch in the wire to disable it. My only question is why do you really need to go over 115mph on a public street?
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kawzx7
Dodge Dakota
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4/03/2002
19:25:23
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Duner:
You hit the nail on the head. I don't own 2 V8's and a 13,000 rpm four cylinder cause I like to read speed limit signs!!
Later
Chris
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CW
GenIII
4/03/2002
20:50:28
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Personaly I would like to know how the computer controls the speed limiter for sure. If I knew that I am sure there would be a way around it. Unfortunately if I did find a way around it I wouldn't tell anyone for fear of lawers and lawsuits:( My mechanics ticket is on the line. The manuals are easy it is the autos that are hard.
2001 4.7 RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods.
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conig
Dodge Dakota
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4/04/2002
13:38:17
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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cw, I tried this and when you do it the speedo drops to zero and the abs light comes on. maybe theres a way to trick the abs system like on the manuals.
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
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4/04/2002
15:44:04
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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I still wanna know why noone's gotten a Canadian instument cluster (w/ everything in Km) and used an adapter box (which is available) to calibrate it for Miles. If this was done the CPU would be thinking you're doing 62.5MPH (100km/h) when you're actually doing 100MPH, and the speedo would show 100MPH (just black over the km/h label) and the odometer would clock 1 more notch for every miles. This would effectively take a 115MPH limiter to 184 while allowing accurate guages and a working ABS system, and yeilding a neat side effect of a 200MPH speedo. :)
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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4/04/2002
16:03:59
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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I don't profess to know anything at all about the differences between the Canadian PCMs and the US versions, but logic tells me that the only difference is the markings on the speedo. I doubt that they would actually change all of the parameters to read metrics, but just would change the names on the gauge positions. Can anyone verify this? Or am I totally in the dark about it?
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
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4/04/2002
16:21:05
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Duner: that's the point, if the only difference is the marking (and time between ticks on the odometer) then "re-marking" the speedo would work.
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
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4/04/2002
16:27:51
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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As a clarification, I'm talking about keeping the US PCM.
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kawzx7
Dodge Dakota
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4/04/2002
16:52:40
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Demon:
I think your theory would just cancel everything out. The PCM is probably smart enough to convert MPH to KPH. I dunno. I just know the key is to get the speedo to read right while lowering the "real" value to below the fuel pump cutoff limit. All I think I am doing by turning the key is breaking this link, hence why the engine still accelerates. It does not "know any better" with the key out of the "run" position. I am afraid the ABS thing is a bad idea. I think a parallel path from the speed sensor:
1) running the true MPH to the speedo; and
2) running a different value(or voltage whatever) to the PCM
would solve the problem, because the vehicle would think it's going slower than it really is. That in turn would probably screw up the trip computer on the headliner.
Just gets worse the more you try to get around it..........
Later
Chris
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
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4/04/2002
17:09:08
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Message:
What I'm talking about is the equivilent of putting tires half the size in diameter, then putting a rear end ratio of half the original. The CPU doesn't know "MPH", just the frequency of pulses or level of a voltage. You're not "fooling" the CPU as much as your fooling the driver :)
Double the tire highth and you go double the speed read by the spedometer. There is devices to compensate. So use these devices to "compensate" for a theoretical tire that is half the highth and change the spedometer markings to match. Then keep the original tires. This would accomplish the same thing (in theory)
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kawzx7
Dodge Dakota
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4/04/2002
19:34:42
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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I think I understand what you mean, but then the speedo would always be off right? Or what?
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CW
GenIII
4/04/2002
20:49:02
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Demon-Xanth You are doing it after the fact though. The signal goes from the rear diff to the ABS then is bussed to the PCM and the insterment cluster. The PCM is still reading the same speed.
2001 4.7 RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods.
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
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4/05/2002
00:00:26
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Ahh, I had thought the adapter went between the sensor and the bus, not the bus and the cluster.
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D
Dodge Dakota
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4/05/2002
00:11:25
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Message:
wouldnt it just be smart to spend $350 on an
ASE chip, than risk trashing the tranny, or
running into a wall screwing around with the
key?
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DakUSA
DakotaEnthusiast
4/05/2002
00:24:09
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Ok guys here is the deal. If you turn the key while in drive you will not get any noise but if you do it in park you will. What is happineg is when you turn the key while driving it kills the power to the ACU (ABS controler unit) The ACU provides the PCM with the speed data so thats why the limmeter does not kick in. We have some people looking into the wiring of the dakota to see if we can isolate the power to the ACU and kill it with a switch and not turn off the other stuff. I did a test on the way to work and on the way home. I have a 2001 4.7 Quad Auto and the limmeter is at 97 mph At 90 I turned the key and hit the gas the spedo went to 0 the RMPs and all other gauges worked fine and the ABS and airbag light came on. It pulled hard then shifted and pull harder )never shifted before cause it would shut down at 97 before it could) stayed in it a little longer then let off the key spedo hit 120 and the limmeter kicked in and I slowed down. On the way home I did some more testing high speed and from a stop with the key on/ on the highway I had the same resluts as before from a stop getting into it hard I noticed the teruck shifted at a higher RPM and a little harder and the accel was a little faster because of the higher RMp shifts. I will keep you posted on the progress of the device. We have a few people that really no the trucks working on it. So stay tuned.
Chris Lambert
President Dakota USA
01 QC 4.7 Graphite
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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4/05/2002
00:24:47
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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The speed sensor on the rear differential only controls speeds below 20mph. After that the trany speed sensor takes over. SO putting a switch on the rear speed sensor won't make a difference. I'm sure if someone coudl figure out the signal the PCM uses to cut off the fuel, then ic can be overridden. How bout a manual override switch on the fuel pump?? Flip it on when you hit the speed limiter and instead of the PCM shutting off the fuel pump it keeps pumping. Might need something for the injectors though. Not real sure how the PCM "shuts off" the fuel.
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D
Dodge Dakota
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4/05/2002
00:44:58
| RE: Pushing through top speed limiter!
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Message:
please people check the rating of your sh!te
stock dakota tires before running faster than
you limiter allows. blow outs at 65 mph can
kill people.
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