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jonathan
Dodge Dakota
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2/26/2002
22:10:07
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 Subject: Your words of Wisdom...
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Ok... this is the list... I'm looking on this thread to hear what you guys (and chicks if any read this) think about these products and good/bad experiences with them. I just came into a little money, and... well, it's going to my truck. Here goes:
For a 1999 Dodge Dakota Club Cab R/T
Intake Manifold-- thinking of going with the M1
Heads-- R/T heads; ported of course
MSD Ignition--6AL ?
Plug wires--the accell universal length 8.8 racing wires?
Headers--Lot of controversy, but Mopar Perf or JBA... your thoughts? Costs?
High Flow Cat--Magnaflow 2.5/2.5 (true dual)
Muff--Flowmaster 40series 2.5/3.0 (true dual)
Hood--Shaker
and finally... my biggest problem getting info on... suspension... how do I find lower control arms or anti hop bars for my truck ? I can find it for just about any other vehicle other than our truck. One main reason why I want to concentrate on that is, I think that if I could connect better, and have all power going to the wheels and not dissipating through the chassis... a vehicle could go so much faster. Theres a TransAm around here that has no modifications other than suspension, and it runs 12's. How crazy is that... anyway.. off topic...
... and I think that's about it... like I said... looking forward to critique on these items and recommendations... links if possible.
thanks in advance...
jonathan
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DaveR
Dodge Dakota
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2/26/2002
23:18:21
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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I too wonder about the R/T heads. They seem awful nice but kind of pricey. I have an MSD 6AL and I have no complaints. I am also runing a blaster 2 coil with it. I did however see in one post someone saying that the MSD boxes take away from Magnums. As for traction; look at CalTracs of Competition Engineering. I have the Comps and like them alot. I finally got them dialed in and it hooks up real hard with a limited slip. If you decide on either of thes tration adders plan on spending some time doing it. I have seen that others have had as much trouble as me putting traction bars on. I ended up having to machine some bushing by the time I was done. It might be worth the money to have a suspension shop put them on. Just my opinion though.
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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2/26/2002
23:51:58
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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For intake manifold, go with the 2bbl M1. Headers, don't short yourself by using the shorties, get some good ones like the Mopar, or Kenne Bell headers. Do you have a ported TB yet?? If not, get the 52MM F&B. The R/T heads are awsome, and I will be getting them next month. 2.02 fully assembled ported polished, and 5 angle valve job for $2200. If you are goin to do heads, you need to get a came as well, then you will need at least a 2400 stall TC, and possibly some higher gears for the rear to get the RPMs up in the powerband quicker. The ignition and wires look good as does the hod. If you get the Shaker, be sure to upgrade the air filter with the K&N extreme lid to get max flow. Especially if you do go with the heads. Traction bars, either the CalTracs(I have these) or the Comp Engineereing as Dave mentioned. You might want to get the Kenne Brown X-brace to further help wth weight transfere. Especially on a CC. Don't mess with the lower control arms. They will decrease your truning radius. Go with the best and get Hotchkis. If you are wirreid about traction at the track, just use drop blocks in the rear and not the Htochkis leafs. The Hotchkis leafs are stiffer and will hurt off the line traction. If you can get away with it, don't eve put a cat on. Will be much better. And please don't go with the Flowmaster. Everyone and their brother runs those and they ain't the best thing in the world. The SPintech or a straigt through design muffler flow much better. Hope this helps. Any firther questions, feel free to email me.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
2/27/2002
01:21:58
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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HSKR, i thought the mopar headers were also shortys?
also, i have the 2" A-arms, and i can turn lock to lock, with no rubbing. it dosent matter if i run my stock 15's, my old 17's or my 20's
do you have a smog guy? if not how are you going to smog it? i just did mine yesterday,and only passed by 1 point! talk about sweating bullets LOL
Eric
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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2/27/2002
05:06:02
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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Ahhh, the wonders of being in the military!!!! Truck is registereed in Nebraska so don't have to worry about smog. The Mopar headers are a tri-y design. Kinda between full length and shorties, and they come with a new y-pipe.
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jonathan
Dodge Dakota
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2/27/2002
06:29:43
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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Well, I too am in the military... but kinda works opposite for me. North Carolina has crap for state inspections... honk the horn and turn on the blinker you get a sticker... where I'm from, Texas on the other hand... they stick a sensor in your tailpipe, and do the works.... so a cat is going to be necessary. Thanks for all the help so far guys... anyone else have a say ?
jonathan
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fourgivn1
Dodge Dakota
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2/27/2002
07:34:05
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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Yeah, I'm in the military too, but the fact that I'm in Virginia nullifies all that. They have all sorts of crazy laws to get around the fact that you're in the military. F'rinstance, usually if you are based in a state but not a resident of it, you don't have to pay property tax. BUT....since my fiancee got the loan for me (I'm paying it off but she got the loan so we could get 0% financing) and she's not in the military, I have to pay property tax. Oh well.
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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2/27/2002
08:37:43
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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I've never heard that. It doesn't matter if you are military or not. You have to pay property tax for the state the vehicle is registered in. The only tax we get away with in the military is sales tax, and in some states income tax.
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MikeD
Dodge Dakota
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2/27/2002
08:45:05
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Not all of Texas has the sniffer test. I'm in Dallas but I take my truck back to my small hometown where only things they check are the blinker and brake lights.
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fourgivn1
Dodge Dakota
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2/27/2002
09:08:24
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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Not true. (Well, not 100% true.) For certain states, like GA (when I was a resident) you did not have to pay property tax if you were a resident of that state BUT you spent more than a predestined amount of time (like 6 or 8 months) in another state. And since I wasn't a resident of VA and am in the military I didn't have to pay property tax there either. I know I'm not just failing to pay property tax *LOL* because my driver's license was from GA and they knew where I was.
HOWEVER....now that my fiancee (who is not military...yet *L*) is the lienholder on my truck I have to pay the tax. But it's coming down (to $68 from $300 every 6 mos) so it's getting better.
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jonathan
Dodge Dakota
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2/27/2002
17:18:13
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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Anyone else ?
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oetkenjc
R/T
3/01/2002
16:21:55
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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Just wanted to 'bump' this up to see if I could get any more suggestions/tips...
jonathan
Best Run: .520rt, 2.138 60foot, 15.041secs @ 89.44mph
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kota on 20s
GenIII
3/01/2002
16:27:06
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some people are saying that they had a loss with the msd ignition. i havent had a experience with the system, but this is what i have heard.
if you do get the msd, you dont need the 6AL. all you need is the 6A. the only differance is the AL has a built in revlimiter, which you already have.
Eric
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oetkenjc
R/T
3/01/2002
16:38:25
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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I understand with the AL you can adjust the rev limiter.
jonathan
Best Run: .520rt, 2.138 60foot, 15.041secs @ 89.44mph
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kota on 20s
GenIII
3/01/2002
16:41:06
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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true, but the limiter in the pcm is still there, so the revlimiter is useless
Eric
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DaveR
Dodge Dakota
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3/01/2002
17:06:20
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Before i got the 6AL I did some looking around and talked to some proformance guys to see what was suggested as far as the A or the AL. It was pointed out to me that it is a lot cheaper to buy the 6AL then it is to get the 6A and then decide you want the rev limiter. I do like the fact that I can set the limiter lower than the PCM. Having an automatic it shifts right on the redline, so I have it set about 300 RPMs higher than the redline. In a year I have never had it hit the limiter. I also find therev limiter helpfull in governing what is done with my truck when I am not present. Although I try to do my own work there are times I have to admit I don't know what i'm doing. I had to have a door shell replaced a while back so it had to go in. I have heard stories of the local dealership mechanics playing "race the garage door" (a freind of mine has damage from this game). Inturn I put in a 3k limiter to make sure they weren't screwing around. I figured if they did crash the door i could have them or if they told me the limiter was coming on I would know they had been playing around.
I also have a set of JBA headers and I have no complants. The only problom I have is the huge bend that is in the Y-pipe from the way it is bent at the factory.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
3/01/2002
17:28:45
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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hey dave, that is a good point about setting the rev limiter real low when you have work done to the truck. that would be nice.
how did you like the msd system? do you live in a state the has a sniffer test for smog, if so did it help? thanks
Eric
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Scott
Dodge Dakota
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3/01/2002
17:43:01
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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I haven't had experience with everything you asked about, but here' my experience.
The MSD box worked ok for me. It didn't help the ET's at all, and if it helped mileage, it was too little to notice. What it DID do was smooth out the idle. By itself, it's not a magic box. What it basically does is fire the plug more than once below 3000 rpm, to make sure that in a marginal situation, the mixture still fires. If your ignition is functioning properly and your fuel mixture is ok, it's not going to make any difference that you'll see. Also, the earlier post about the 6AL vs. 6A is correct. Save your money, you already have a rev limiter. If you're limited on funds, I wouldn't make an MSD your first purchase.
I used the MSD 8.5 mm "Super Conductor" plug wires. They don't list the Dakota, but they have a set built for the 318 RAM 94-97, so it works perfectly, without having to custom fit them yourself. MSD Part #32189
I can't say anything about the other cats, but I just bought a RandomTech converter, and it's very nicely put together. (www.randomtechnology.com) I've heard bad things about some of the cheaper brands, so maybe you get what you pay for. RandomTech has a website if you want more info, but the cheaper prices are from the distributors. I got mine from Martel Bros. (www.martelbros.com)
No contest on the headers, go with the Mopar/Thorleys. Better quality, built to last, and full length is a better design anyway, as long as you don't mind the extra installation hassles. Plus, they include a Y-pipe. To me, better performance is worth the extra cost. Biggest drawback is that they still don't make them in a high temp coating, only chrome. The best price I found was TruckPerformance. (www.truckperformance.com) JBA's biggest advantage is that they're cheaper and easier to install, so you decide which is more important to you.
I have dual 3" Flowmasters on my '68 Camaro, and honestly, they're too loud. Might be better with a cat converter before them though. I have an Edelbrock RPM muffler on my Dakota, and I'm very happy with it. (www.edelbrock.com) Flow is better with the perforated core type muffler like Edelbrock or Borla over the chambered types, but everybody and his brother carries Flowmaster brand these days. Whatever you do, DON'T get the straight through kind of muffler with the baffles that stick out into the flow path. You might as well just cork up your exhaust completely. I believe Gibson and the Mopar (made by Gibson) cat-back systems are this type, which is why they have to use three inch pipes to get any flow, but don't quote me on that.
I tried for a long time to get slapper bars to work. They might cure the wheel hop, but if your goal is to get power to the ground, bite the bullet and spend the money on CalTrac bars or the Competition Engineering Slide-A-Links. I had the CalTracs on my Camaro also, and nothing worked better. I got them for my Dakota too before the Comp Eng. ones were available. If I did it now, I'd go with Competition Engineering's. I think they're a better design, and less prone to squeaking against the springs, because that part of the assembly is bolted down and doesn't move. All the movement is in the replaceable urethane bushing located on the bar. Both kinds are a hassle to install, but once you do, you'll never need anything else. Prices are pretty much the same, and the Slide-A-Links are available from Summit and Jegs.
My 2 cents. Good luck!
Scott
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kota on 20s
GenIII
3/01/2002
18:00:04
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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what do you mean by baffles that stick into the exhaust flow? i have never seen a muffler like that. my mopar/gibson looks like a borla, or edelbrock. i looked at many exhaust systems before i got mine, and the only differance the borla has over mine it that is stainless.
Eric
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Scott
Dodge Dakota
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3/01/2002
18:27:28
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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You know what "louvers" look like? Where you punch a slot in a piece of metal, then press it outward so it becomes a vent where air can go in or out. That's what I mean by baffles. Some mufflers have those sticking out into the air flow path, to direct the sound into whatever packing is in the body of the muffler. The old style "Glasspack" mufflers were also like that. You could see straight through them, but they flowed like they were constipated!
The Edelbrock/Borla style just has holes in the tubes, but they don't stick out or impede the flow in any way. Also, spliting the flow within the muffler the way they do gives more surface area to absorb the sound. Flowmasters have a convoluted route through the muffler, so they generally don't flow as much cfm as the Edelbrock/Borla style. But if you believe the Flowmaster propaganda, their method creates a vacuum that helps pull exhaust gases out of the chamber, resulting in more low end torque. I think which is better really depends on your intended application. The Flowmasters might be better when around town driving is more important than all out performance.
Scott
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oetkenjc
R/T
3/01/2002
19:07:29
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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Thanks a lot Scott, really appreciate the post. I was researching and about to make the purchase on the CalTrack... I'll check out Comp Eng first. Main reason why I wanted to get 40 series flowmasters is because it's the best sounding that I've heard (well, for the type of sound that I would like my truck to make) and thought at the same time that it works real well. I was intending on going with Borla for the headers... so might do that with the muff's as well. Thanks again Scott.
jonathan
Best Run: .520rt, 2.138 60foot, 15.041secs @ 89.44mph
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DaveR
Dodge Dakota
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3/01/2002
19:23:03
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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I agree with Scott on the MSD box, it's not the cure all peice that you can't live without. I kind of think that it tended to leave me with an easier starting truck as well.
I too have the MSD wires mentioned. I have had trouble with burning wires on the headers so I invested in an MSD sleeving kit and I use the fiberglass boot sleeves along with the fiberglass string to keep every thing nice and heat resistant.
As for the traction bars my comp engineering bars do squeak because I choose to change to the supplied bushing which is aluminum. Right now with everything set right it squeaks, but as soon as it goes out of adjustment it doesn't, kind of an "everything's OK alarm". The problom I have with them now is having wrenches big enough to adjust them, they aren't small.
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oetkenjc
R/T
3/01/2002
19:37:05
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How difficult was installation ? The guys at the place tell me it's not... now for real... is this gonna take me a weekend of knuckle busting and drilling to get it to fit right ?
jonathan
Best Run: .520rt, 2.138 60foot, 15.041secs @ 89.44mph
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DaveR
Dodge Dakota
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3/02/2002
16:09:16
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Installation of which? The MSD took me about 2 hours including mounting a new coil and fabricating a nice pretty mount for the box. My exaust took about 5 hours because I chose to modify a flowmaster catback from a 97 Dak. The headers took about 3 hours. The traction bars took about 3 days. I was really glad I took a day off of work because I would have been stuck with out it. If you are talking about the traction bars I'll tell you exactlly what the hang ups were for the comp engineering and I'm sure scott would consider doing the same for the cal tracks.
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oetkenjc
R/T
3/02/2002
18:43:30
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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Sorry I didnt specify... I was referring to the CalTracs and the Comp Engineering traction bars...
jonathan
Best Run: .520rt, 2.138 60foot, 15.041secs @ 89.44mph
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DaveR
Dodge Dakota
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3/03/2002
01:36:47
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Ok, i can only speak for the Comp Engineering of course, but they both seem very similar. The hardest part of the install I found was getting the front brackets in, everything else is fairly strateforward and easy. To get the front bracket on the front of the leaf has to be taken off. Be forwarned, one of my bolts was frozen and it had to be cut out and replaced. You may have an easier time though since you have a newer truck. The bracket mounts to the eyelett and is then put back into the hanger. You also are instructed to remove the stock rubber bushing in the eyelett with the supplied aluminum bushings. In order to put the new bushing in you have to take the old one out. This is rather tricky because you wither need a press or you have to some up with some way of driving it out. I happened to have a peice of metal laying around that was the right size along with a large gear puller and an impact gun, so I just drove the guts out of the bushing and installed the new one. After this was done came the chore of installing the spring back into place with the new bracket in place. Keep in mind that the new bracket is put up againt tremedous loads so it was built very strong, which means it's bulky. This added bulk means about 5/16"more width added to the eyelett, so it took a lot of beating and swearing to get the eyelett to line up with the bolt hole. I also ended up just cutting the old ubolts out, figuring I was going to use the new one's anyway it wasn't worth me fighting rusted on nuts when a disc grinder would lance through them in a hurry. Once the brackets are on the real fun begines: mounting the tubes and taking it for a test drive.
I think if I were to do it all over again I would atleast look around and see how much it would set me back to have them put on. I consider myself mechanicly inclined enough that i'm afraid of very few things, and this almost wasn't worth the hastle of me doing it. I think if I were you I would at least ask the shop if they say it's so easy, how much would they charge to do it? I think they are a great product and they are worth the money in my opinion, but it is a damn good way to test your patience. If your really serious I can get some pics and send them to you so you can see exactly what it looks like and see the more interesting parts.
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oetkenjc
R/T
3/03/2002
10:28:54
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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Yes.. definitly.. I'd like that. Thanks Dave.
oetkenjc@yahoo.com
jonathan
Best Run: .520rt, 2.138 60foot, 15.041secs @ 89.44mph
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Lesley
GenIII
3/03/2002
10:47:00
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I've got the JBA shorties and I'm happy with them. I'd like to upgrade the Y-pipe eventually.
I've had the Borla Turbo XL for about 2 months now, and the performance is great, the sound is exactly what I wanted. Aggressive, but not loud or obnoxious. Minimal cab-noise.
As for wires, I'm thinking of upgrading to JBA power cables. I have the Borg Warners on right now, but I put them on before the rest of my mods. They're only 7mm and I'm thinking of going to 8mm.
From everything that I have heard and read, the M1 4bbl is the way to go - unfortunately there isn't one for us sixers - yet.
I'm on my third stock cat, when the emissions warranty runs out, I'm going to buy a carsounds high flow.
97 3.9 CC Sport. Black. Auto 3.55
Quick D Intake, JBA Stainless headers, Autolite 3923s, stainless Borla Turbo XL, V8 R/T TB,
19 lb.FMS fuel injectors. Coming 17" Boyd Coddington Smoothies
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kota on 20s
GenIII
3/03/2002
12:07:51
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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actually the M-1 2bbl is the way to go. the 4bbl kills bottom end, but gives a little more in the top end. that is great for everyday racing, with a 3k converter and real steap gears, but for everday driving, get the 2bbl.
i just installed mine and WOW!! night and day differance
Eric
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Lesley
GenIII
3/03/2002
15:05:04
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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I'm sorry, thanks Eric, dunno what I was thinking. The 2bbl of course.
97 3.9 CC Sport. Black. Auto 3.55
Quick D Intake, JBA Stainless headers, Autolite 3923s, stainless Borla Turbo XL, V8 R/T TB,
19 lb.FMS fuel injectors. Coming 17" Boyd Coddington Smoothies
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kota on 20s
GenIII
3/03/2002
22:04:00
| RE: Your words of Wisdom...
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its all good ;-)
Eric
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