RE: DODGE OR GM ENGINES - Dodge Dakota Forum

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moparfamily Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 12/30/2002 03:15:49	Subject: RE: DODGE OR GM ENGINES IP: Logged Message: sandman said you can build 3 chevie small blocks for 1 360 lol, they will need all three during one race season while im still running my 360 untouched all year.and steve said you can make more power per dollar spent with a chevy than mopar, i disagree i have proven this wrong many times at my local track to the shevy guys. but it depends to what level of performance you meant i guess lol. always a loyal mopar fan
Steve Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 12/30/2002 14:22:37	RE: DODGE OR GM ENGINES IP: Logged Message: moparfamily, You can disagree all you want. The "Bang for the Buck" statement, that I made, is an economic fact of life. You make it sound like I'm putting down Dodge. I'm not putting down Dodge or any other make. I've been driving Dakotas for almost 14 years. I haven't owned a Chevy for over 20 years. All I was saying that due to prices and availability of factory and after market speed equipment, that it is cheaper to make horsepower from a Chevy. Love them or hate them, the small block is a very well designed engine that responds very well to modifications. There has been more high performance developmental work done on the small block than any other engine. They probably own more racing records than all other engines combined. You may not love them, but you have to respect them.
Jacque Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 12/31/2002 11:38:50	RE: DODGE OR GM ENGINES IP: Logged Message: If we are talking about street engines, then a Dodge can not only compete but win. While it is true that it is much less expensive to build a Chevy, it will not stay together like a Dodge. Chevy guys go through more engines than anybody. Remember, these are the guys that are talking about their next engine build after they have just freshened up that 350. That is why there is so many aftermarket parts for Chevys. And if a Chevy is so much better than a Dodge, why hasn't it beaten a Dodge in any of the Hot Rod buildups. Dodge won both big block buildups and the one small block buildup they were allowed to compete in. The other small block buildup Hot Rod did they had a limit on the amount of money you could spend on your engine ($2500). They didn't want to compete against a Dodge again knowing the outcome it would produce. They said that over half the budget would be taken up by the purchase of cylinder heads needed to make the nessacary power to compete. Then both the Chevy and Ford engine in the contest went over budget even without the addition of porting the heads added to the cost of each buildup. Which they claimed was done by themselves so it didn't count. If a Dodge was allowed to compete, it would have won. In my opinion, that is why you don't see many of these head to head comparisons between the big three with these engine buildups. True, I haven't kept up with these things. Somebody may have a buildup in the future or have already had one that I don't know about with a Chevy winning. I would be wary of those results though. They want a Chevy to win.
Junkyard Dog Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 12/31/2002 14:28:58	RE: DODGE OR GM ENGINES IP: Logged Message: Jacque, CHILL OUT!!! The man simply said it's cheaper to build a Chevy. He didn't say whether they would be any less or any more reliable, he said it's CHEAPER. BTW, you agreed with him on that point in your post.
sandman Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 12/31/2002 20:47:47	RE: DODGE OR GM ENGINES IP: Logged Message: Ya, I did not mention durability! If that had been the question I would have had to told the guy to go buy a Toyota!! The best engine Dodge ever had interms of durability was the slant six. It was so durable you almost thought it was a Toyota engine.I always woundered why Toyota did not copy it! The Dodge 5.9 and 5.2 and GM Generation 1 and 2 small blocks are anything but durable. Any engine design that will not go a minium of 200,000 and preferable 300,000 miles with just oil changes and routine maintence ie.. spark plugs wires cap and rotor before it starts to burn oil and loses lots of performance is a poorly designed piece of junk!!! When you could get HP engines from the factory pre emmision laws then MOPAR ruled but once everyone had to start lowering performance things changed quickly. GM put small blocks into everything they made, so everyone made parts for it. You could get them cheap alot of guys will still give you a small block for a case of beer because they have 10 of them in their yard. If you can sell a million cam shafts for one engine a year and maybe a 2000 of another per year you can offer the one you sell a million of them for at a cheaper price due to economy of scale. If you have 200 parts companys competeing for the same huge market prices come down as well. I almost bought a used Dakota with a 3.9 as spare vechile but OEM type rebuild cost turned me away. A kit preassembeled with TRW,Fedral Mogal, Sealed Power, Clevite..... parts cost close the same price as a long block for a 4.3 chevy. It cost almost 3 times what the small block kits made up of the same brands of parts from the same supplier cost. You can get heads from at least 6 different companys for the small block gen 1,2,and 3. How many companys make heads for DC 5.9 and 5.2 and how many variations are their. Look at the number of companys makeing cams and pistons for GM small block. If not for the new 4.7 I would not have bought a Dodge! Their 5.9 and 5.2 had nothing to offer me! I understand that their are a lot of loyal DC guys here that are not going to like what I am saying but DC owed their customer a better engine for a long time. The 4.7, 3.7 and 5.7 have been needed for a long time. They really needed these engines 10 years ago. They make a wounderful truck but their power trains were guickly showing how obsolete they were. Trucks had to be more refined, emissions were closeing in, C.A.F.E. standards were closeing in and alot of their market share was going to Ford and GM. The DC tranys required you to adjust the bands, they had a divorced overdrive unit...........
99rt Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 1/01/2003 15:20:29	RE: DODGE OR GM ENGINES IP: Logged Message: The reason that it cheaper to build a P.O.S. chevy engine is because there are a bizillion of them on the road and in the junk yards today. When aftermarket companies are designing parts for the aftermarket rebuilding community they are going to develop parts for what sells the most first. That means a P.O.S. chevy gets the most attention. Quality...300,000 miles...ANY engine that can go 300,000 miles is a good one. Chevy is not any more better (just worse) than the competition, they just have more of their junk traveling our roadways than the competitors, so its easy to say "chevy is better". But better than what, 100 chevy 350s compared to just one dodge or ford engine. Want qulity and durability, buy a toyota. I prefer to have a DODGE, you mention gasket problems, bad oiling and a plethora of other anomalies with the dodge smallblock, I haven't seen a single one of these. Gaskets only last a certain amount of time before they start to fail, if you say chevys can go 300,000 miles without leaking you are only lying to yourself. yea, dodge has some shortfalls, but they built a good engine, it was built so good that it only needed small improvments over the years. Yea, chevy has "modular" engines, "I want a deisel" bring me a 350 small block ank some deisel heads, gaurenteed to blow up within 10,000 miles. 4.3 liter, that is the EXACT same thing as a 3.9 liter dodge, "cut off two cylinders". You say the 4.7 liter is a totally new design, well for your information, so is the chevy 5.3 liter, it is as just as new. As for chevy quality is is a well known fact that a dodge or ford are a better choice for towing that a chevy, and why might this be, because chevy uses "chain-drive" and lousy converters in their transmissions, that's probably the reason they went to an allison transmission. Sandman if you are talking that "chevy is superior to a dodge, but you own a dodge" that makes you a hypocrit, if you think chevy is so superior to dodge, just go away, and go to a chevy site. If you have something constructive to say about dodge than i am listening. But this is a FACT, CHEVY SUCKS, and they will probably NEVER produce anything worhty of ownership by me, except to sell for scrap iron.
Jacque Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 1/02/2003 11:25:03	RE: DODGE OR GM ENGINES IP: Logged Message: I had over 220,000 miles on my 94 Dakota before I got this other one. I did not baby it at all. They were hard miles. I raced it many times. Engine would rev so fast to redline that several of my buddies that owned Chevies said that it would not stay together very long turning it like that. It ran just as strong when I got rid of it. I was unaware that the magnum engines are lacking in the realiability department. I thought that they were just as good as any of the LA style Dodge engines. I know of 3 people who have Dakotas that have that have over 300,000 miles and counting. All 318's. I have never had any major problems with any Dodge I have owned. I am not trying to stir anything up. But, if anyone would like to post their experiences with the durability of these Magnum engines(5.2 and 5.9), I would like to read about it. I can't come online that much. Don't have the time. I would certainly like to read about when I can if everyone will post it. I have owned some GM products. 79 Chevy truck- blew the first engine up at 65,000 miles. Owned a Pontiac Grand Am with Quad 4 engine- broke timing chain at 101,000 miles. Made junk out of the engine. Owned a Pontiac Phoenix with 231 V-6. Wore out and using oil at 85,000 miles. I am sure that I just made some bad choices. That GM makes so good cars and trucks I just didn't buy the right ones. Right. Junk. Other than cap, rotor, sparkplugs, and wires I had only to replace 2 water pumps and have the starter bendix replaced once while I owned it. Also, replaced one fuel pump. Since I have been at this engine shop I have seen 350's being rebuilt at as little as 120,000 miles. Chevies wear out the bores bad. No 350 will clean up the bore at 40 thousands. Always takes going 60 thousands. Since I have made this observation, the owner and chief engine rebuilder(a devote Chevy fan) only will bore them 40 thousands and leave the mark in 1 or 2 cylinders that is going to be there unless it is bored 60 thousands. I have probably seen 300 350's come through here since I have been here. Not the first one will make 40 thousands. And a 4.3. You can't fudge it. 60 thousands every time. Talk about junk. We build all types of engines of every make. 75% of our business is high performance work. Of course, we build more Chevies than anything else, but we do more Dodges and Fords than you might think. The engine builder here really builds a top quality engine. Loyalist of every make come here bcaause of his reputation. But, I don't have to tell you if an engine comes back because it blew up or developed an engine failure of some kind which make it is 9 out of 10 times. I only count street engines. The high performance engines that are raced at the strip only tend to have problems with tuning issues causes by the owners and then there is nitros. Most guys around here don't have it set up properly and eventually toast the engine.
sandman Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 1/02/2003 21:25:56	RE: DODGE OR GM ENGINES IP: Logged Message: 1) I did not say that Chevy would last 300,000 miles on average. 2)Look at TSB for Dodge 5.2 and 5.9 over the last 15 years. 3)The 5.3 is not a totaly new design the Gen III small blocks are not taotly new design. Most of the design features were borrowed from earlier corvet engines. 4) The 5.3 was avaible in 1999 in the redesigned truck along side the classic design with the genII small block 2000 was the year that only genIII was available genIII was available in corvettes years before. THe 4.7 was not available in the Ram until 2002 and the Hemi is barley available now in 2003. 5) We were talking about gen I and II small blocks any way and they have been around a while. 6) The most Durable part of a Dodge Turbo Diesel is the diesel engine which Dodge does not make Cummins makes that engine. 7) I will agree that all other light duty truck diesels are inferior to cummins.8) Anything with a gas engine made in the last 10 years has a chain driven tranfercase chevy does not make their transfercases all of the light duty one in 1/2 and 3/4 Tons are New Process/New Venture which is owned by DC and they are chain drive with plantary gears alot like an automatic. The 1 ton diesel gets a Borg Warner T/Case. Even the Jap's quite useing gear drive T/Cases they make too much noies and are more expensive to produce.9a) I never said chevy was supior to Dodge; I said that you could build a HP small block for alot less then a Dodge small block!!!! 9b)I might have even said that I could build 3 Chevy small blocks for the price of one Mopar small block! 10)You obviously do not understand what a hyopcrit is! 11) The last Dodge built engine that had a proven track record of durability was the Dodge slant six. If you do not know how overly complex and moronic the dodge small block oil system is you do not know an engine from the hole in your head. Not only does it make more zigs and zags to get the power to the pump but one side of the engine has horrable oil flow. They used to run an article over and over again in the various Mopar magizines on how to take oil from the other side of the engine and replume it into the other head to prevent early valve train failure. Why do you think that kit cars, Custom Off raod vechiles and retro fits almost always use chevy engines $$$$$ because they are afordable. You almost never see anyone puting a DC engine in anything that was not made by DC. You must not know too much about power trains. Parts are sourced all of the place example Porsches and VW new Sport Ute has a 6 spd automatic made by AISIN(owned by Toyota) and a transfer case made by New Process(owned by DC). Volvo automatics say volvo on them on the but guess who make them(GM) GM build their trans on the same line as their. The BMW 5 and 6 speed automatics are built by Adam Opel(owned by GM) in Germany and the same trans is used in the Cadilac CTS. Right know GM and Ford have a joint power train venture in the works for a 6 speed trany mated to a common worlwide engine. Subaru is partial owned by GM and guess who is going to share their AWD technology with GM. GM owns Iszuzu and guess who designed the new mid-size S-10 replacement for GM and Iszuzu is marketing it under their name with different badgeing of course.My 2001 Dak has a Denso(owned by Toyota) alternator. My Dads 95 Tacoma has a Harison Radiator and AC/Delco batery. SO if Chevy has a crappy T/Case it is because New Process built poorly. You again ignored the point of the origanal post. Chevy has better oiling system, more vendors choices for parts, cheaper prices on parts, parts are easily sourced and everyone knows how to work on them even an EX-BMW/Toyota Tech. like myself. So yes I feel they are better for cheap HP projects. The truth does not change because you do or do not own a certain product. The truth does not change because you do not want to hear it.The truth does not change because you are brand loyal(read brainwased). Your feeling and emotions are not the best tools for makeing analytical decisions. Even though it is none of your business I own a Dodge for two reasons. My wife really liked the Dodge styleing and so did I. The second was price. I wanted a Toyota but it did not fit my family as well and the price was too good to pass up. I was so afraid to buy an American made product I had to pray on it and then I said nightly prayers for mounths that the truck would not be a lemon. I still pray semi-regularly that it will be durable and not have any powertrain issues for at least the first 10 years.
Jason Teague Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 1/02/2003 23:14:00	RE: DODGE OR GM ENGINES IP: Logged Message: Sandman, I think you are crazy saying a small block chevy with a trashy spur gear oil pump and a pickup tube that falls off if not welded on has a better oiling system than a small block mopar. I have a 340 I have raced for over 6 years than turns over 8000 rpms regularly with nothing more than a HV pump and 8 qt pan with no bearing failures or valvetrain problems either. Try that with a 350 chevy, you'll be picking up parts off the pavement for days!! Also, look at any chevy with 100,000 mi. with a non-roller cam and it will be be in despirate need of a camshaft if it has not had a couple already. Most chevys do good to have 30 psi of oil pressure revved up with the same miles. A chrysler will still have 55-70. I will say a magnum motor's pickup screen is a little on the small side, compared to the A engines. As long as the oil gets changed regularly you wont have any problems.
Teacher Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 1/02/2003 23:38:27	RE: DODGE OR GM ENGINES IP: Logged Message: This whole thing is starting to sound like a bunch of kids in the school yard running around yelling "my daddy can whup your daddy". Come on guys, GROW UP.
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