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kota on 20s
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1/28/2002
21:08:14

Subject: RE: Unbeliveable price on 4.7 HO cams.
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the turbo was installed a while back. hes running in the 12's and hunting for vipers ;-)

hey dunner, ill buy you lunch if you come over and do my M-1 install ;-) jk

Eric



Duner
Dodge Dakota
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1/29/2002
01:10:34

Got the page back up! New Addy
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Hahahaha.... Sorry Eric. I think I got enough "projects" lined up for a while. Thanks for the offer anyway!

OK, I got my page rebuilt and on the new server. I added another pic with most of the components all in a single picture.

http://members.cox.net/duner/Turbo/RTnotTurboPage.html

Yeah, it went a best of 12.76 @ 107.77 a couple of months ago. Since then I've made some "improvements". Hopefully I can get a few more completed before the Mopar Shootout Southwest race in Tucson in March. At least the Gtech says they're improvements.



kota on 20s
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1/29/2002
01:18:52

RE: Unbeliveable price on 4.7 HO cams.
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well it looks like i have to get my hands dirty. :-)

i thought you had a RC for some reason. wow a CC doing 12.7's cool. good luck on the shoot out!

Eric



CW
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1/29/2002
09:15:41

RE: Unbeliveable price on 4.7 HO cams.
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Duner: my question got stuck on the other page so I will ask it again.
Duner: What part did you port on the exhaust side of the heads? The short side radius looks like it could need a little work as well as shorten the valve guide a little and open up the bowel. Is that what you did? I just took a quick look at them, small is a word that comes to mind.


2001 RC 4.7 5sp 9.25" 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm throttle body, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" cold air, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat. Electric fan Convertion, Awaiting HO cams.
Working on adjustable fuel pressure with return.

Duner
Dodge Dakota
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1/29/2002
10:33:25

More Rambling.....
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Yes, small is how I would describe the exhaust valves for sure. At least it's a nice straight shot.

On both the exhaust and intake bowls I opened them up and smoothed them to be the same size as the opening they cut for the valve seats. When they machined the heads for the seats, it left a very bad "step" which would hinder flow. Not all of them were the same, which hurts performance also. Most of the work was on smoothing the long side radius. When I cut the short side back to the valve seat dimension, I made sure that the short side radius was still a smooth round curve. If you cut the short side radius flat the airflow is greatly deminished. You actually want some "bump" for the air to follow. I believe it's called the coanda effect or something like that anyway.

Here's a goofy experiment you can do in the kitchen to illustrate this effect: Go to the sink and turn the water on. Notice how it goes straight down. Now take the side of your finger and let it just touch the side of the water column. Notice how the water will change directions to follow the curve of your finger. That's what the air inside the ports does.... it follows curves instead of getting deflected and ricocheting. (if you already knew this, I apologize for the rehash).

For the guides, I cut the material shorter and also narrowed up the amount of casting material around the guides, which helps flow also. An overhead view of them would look like a teardrop shape or wing with the thinnest side trailing out towards the exhaust manifold. I did the same thing for the intake only facing the other direction. In the intake port they actually have what might be described as a small vortex generator to help mix the air/fuel after the injectors. Pretty clever of them!

I'm just disappointed that my pics didn't turn out. They would have been a lot more informative than my rambling text! hehehe



CW
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1/29/2002
14:42:50

RE: Unbeliveable price on 4.7 HO cams.
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Thanks Duner..
Now for the cams. I just got done measuring them and it looks good. The HO intake is .500" stock is .443" The exhaust not so good but HO is.440" stock is .429". So it is a go for the cams but think I will order springs while I am at it because that is a pretty good jump on the intake. Not sure when I can afford springs. I will wait for the weather to warm up.

2001 RC 4.7 5sp 9.25" 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm throttle body, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" cold air, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat. Electric fan Convertion, Awaiting HO cams.
Working on adjustable fuel pressure with return.

CW
GenIII
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1/30/2002
22:39:56

RE: Unbeliveable price on 4.7 HO cams.
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Duner what do you think of the HO cams and the I.500" and E.440". Exhaust seems a little low but I am hoping that the duration is up as well. I don't have a degree wheel to find out the duration. :(

2001 RC 4.7 5sp 9.25" 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm throttle body, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" cold air, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat. Electric fan Convertion, Awaiting HO cams.
Working on adjustable fuel pressure with return.

Duner
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2002
09:43:49

C'mon.... test it for us!
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It's pretty tough to get much of an impression by just seeing the lift numbers. The actual profile could be different enough to make them either work great or not do a thing for us. I wonder if there's a source for all the cam specs.

I'm counting on you to be the guinneau pig! hehehe

Does anyone know if the exhaust valve is the same size in the HO heads?



CW
GenIII
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1/31/2002
14:36:18

RE: Unbeliveable price on 4.7 HO cams.
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Different part #s I know that. I might just order a HO one and compare it to the standard one.

2001 RC 4.7 5sp 9.25" 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm throttle body, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" cold air, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat. Electric fan Convertion, Awaiting HO cams.
Working on adjustable fuel pressure with return.

Art
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2002
16:51:20

RE: Unbeliveable price on 4.7 HO cams.
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How are you taking these specs? Its pretty hard to just tell what a cam is like just using a mic or a caliper,ramp angles and profiles make alot of difference,did you get those #`s from a book? because .500 of lift measred at .050 is a big lift cam,spring upgrade for sure



Anthony G
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2002
17:29:19

RE: Unbeliveable price on 4.7 HO cams.
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>"is .500" stock is .443" The exhaust not so good >but HO is.440" stock is .429"

I've alway notice a 10-15hp increase for every .020 to .030 lift. With in the .400-.500 range.

.500 Intake lift and .440 Exhaust just doesn't sound right, I alway thought the Exhaust was bigger or the same. Unlike the Valves where the Intake is bigger. What are the Exhaust size on the 4.7L 1.52? Where would all that air go with such a small exhaust lift and small valve?



CW
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1/31/2002
23:13:42

RE: Unbeliveable price on 4.7 HO cams.
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I measured the cam with a dial indicator at the valve so this is true valve lift. I remind you that the stock cam has less lift on the exhaust as well. When I measured the stock cam I was within .002" of the specs in the book. The old hemi had less lift on the exhaust as well. Anyways I will remeasure tommorow and see but I am quite sure of these specs.

The stock intake and exhaust valve diameteres are 1.92" Intake and 1.46" exhaust. Well look at it this way if the cams don't work and I bend a bunch of valves or something like that I will be able to port he heads. LOL

Damn I wish I had a degree wheel then I could give some better specs like duration from .006" lift. Pretty sure that is what dodge uses to measure duration.

2001 RC 4.7 5sp 9.25" 3.92 LSD
Ported 68mm throttle body, IAT adjuster, 3" flowmaster cat back, TPS @ .76V, 4" cold air, Roadmaster active suspention, Removed Third cat. Electric fan Convertion, Awaiting HO cams.
Working on adjustable fuel pressure with return.

Matt Barret
Dodge Dakota
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4/10/2002
13:54:35

RE: Unbeliveable price on 4.7 HO cams.
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Let me dig this thread up again now that I'm in a position to upgrade my cams.

CW, any problems to date after the cam changes, good, bad or ugly???
You mentioned something about upgrading the springs, did you decide to do this or was it really needed ?
The factory tool needed to install the new cams, is that the only specialty tool needed?
Any other tips/ tricks on the install. Cam lube, ect ????

Part numbers for the cams, if you have them handy, if not, no problem.

Thanks
Matt Y2K-HEMI
'00 RC 4.7L 5spd
14.23 @ 94.49




CW
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4/10/2002
20:30:25

RE: Unbeliveable price on 4.7 HO cams.
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I could of swore I answered this but I must not have hit the post button.
Anyways, no problems as of yet good idle, good power. The only thing that was needed special is that cam chain wedge. Duner did his heads without but I could hardly get my sprocket on the pasenger side back on with it. I would have never got it back on with out.

I didn't bother with the springs because they measured the same at the same installed hight. All they did on the HO from what I could tell was lessen the installed hight increasing pressure a little.

No cam lube needed sinse they are rollerized. Just put a little oil on them and slap them in.

I found it easiest to just pull the injectors and coils at first and get them out of the way. Everything else is pretty much nuts and bolts.

Sorry no part numbers but I did seem to knock off about 2 to 3 tenths with the cams. Testing was done 2 months apart but under very simular conditions. On the exact same streach of road.

2001 4.7 RC 5sp 3.92 LSD

Click on thumbnail for mods.

Matt Barret
Dodge Dakota
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4/11/2002
08:16:19

RE: Unbeliveable price on 4.7 HO cams.
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Thanks CW. A buddy of mine is a Tech at the dealer, I'll see if he can get his hands on a chain wedge for me. Other than that it sounds straight forward. Can't wait !
Was debating removing the heads to have them bench flowed and extrude honed, I guess they can extrude hone Aluminum heads?

Thanks!




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