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Dakota Performance
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slow r/t man
Dodge Dakota
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11/09/2003
18:33:08

Subject: RE: BIG Block 440 install
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"Max Wedges can embarrass a brand-new Viper. They are fully capable of 12-second quarter mile times in stock trim." I'm not downing the wedge but I'd put my $ on a Viper in a street race. Max Wedge cars are made for one thing, straight line drag race. Add ANY curves in the road and it would loose its edge real fast. Not to metion a Viper has 40-50 mph more top end. I raced a 440-6 barrel Road Runner on the e-way and won. Not because I made more HP, I had overdrive. I was a beautiful thing.



gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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11/09/2003
19:14:11

RE: BIG Block 440 install
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Max Wedge referred to the package of the day. Cross-Ram dual quad induction, wild exhaust, etc. There were no 440's then. When 440's began production, they soon got a performance version called "Magnum". The Max Wedge cars were already history by then, but 413's, pre-hemi 426's, and 440's are all wedges, as are the smallblocks.



jobucks
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2003
01:52:54

RE: BIG Block 440 install
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Hi All,

Been looking at this site for a couple days now. Thought that I'd throw my 2 cents worth in. Try not to make this too long and not go into a long personal history but wanted to make a couple comments about a couple posts here. Not trying to be sarcastic about anyones posts and no "dising" implied. (I think that is what my grandkids call it, some of you "younger" people straighten me out on that term.)

Owned most of the engines mentioned here, Hemi, Max Wedge, 426 Wedge and 440 Magnum. (Gee, wonder where Mother Mopar came up with the name for the new 5.2 and 5.6's) I think the Max Wedge was a little more then the "package for the day." It was a true race configuration. 11.5 or 12 to 1 compression ratio, even a 13 to 1 if you had to have it, dual quad cross ram induction, cast iron headers and the heads;the exhaust and intake ports big enough to lose a wrench down. Most of the modern "big" heads were designed after the heads, like Indy etc. This was a good 10 second 1/4 mile car. Also at that time was the 426 Wedge. For the guy (opps person) who wasn't a mechanic but wanted the power. No valve train to adjust etc. Then in '67 came the 440 Magnum, Plymouth GTX and Dodge RT. The show room muscle car. Walk in drop your $5000 or so, drop the hammer and go race with the big guys. A good 12 second 1/4 miler. And air, power seats etc. all the luxuries of grandpa's big Chrysler of that era. Just add gas, drop the hammer and hang on. Eat up those phords and chebbys. As far as the Viper comparrison, go to the Mopar Nats and watch the 60's muscle cars eat them up. Great European high performance road race car. But don't kid yourself, with a quick ratio steering gear box and a few torsion bar adjustments the old "B Bodies" did a pretty good job. Raced a few Vets and Shelbys with them. Didn't have to worry about slowing down to a 100 to make the turns, you were so far ahead of them that you could slow down to 60 and still be way ahead.

Anyway, the real reason I'm here at the "440 install in a Dak" is because I'm also checking that out. Just bought a little Dak Sport like the ones in the magazine ads back in 92. Little red job, 5.2, 4X4 with the chrome light bar sticking above it etc. FIgured I'd drop one of my 440's that are laying around in it. Especially the one with the 671 blower on top of it. Probably have to run the 671 at 12 to 15% underdrive so the drive train doesn't self distruct but still sounded like a fun ride. Little red Dak 4X4 with a "huffer" sticking thru the hood. Anything to be different! Some say it can't be done with the 4X4, but hey anything can be done with enough gas in the torch set and wire in the welder!

Been checking with some of the Dak sites and a couple of them say they've already seen it done. One of them the site mentioned in some of your posts, engine swaps i think it is and then another Magnum Performance down in Houston,TX I believe they are. Anyway, thinking about "joining" this site and would be interested in "swapping info" with others doing a BB/RB conversion on a Dak. Promise to keep all other postings to messages, not a book like this one. One thing that's an advantage to me, I'm retired and so have 24 hours a day to spend with my Dak. I know most have to go to work everyday so that slows down their "quality time" with their Dak.

Oh yea, one last thing, I'm new at computers too, along with Daks; how about one of you helping an old timer out? What the heck do the "page with bent corner","wrench?", and "yield sign" emoticons mean? Thanks a bunch!!



Dally
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2003
09:22:16

RE: BIG Block 440 install
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Not sure about the "page With the bent corner" means, But the wrench is to indicate "we're talkin tech" and the emoticons are there to help express emotion that otherwise cannot be communicated with only typed words. Don't forget to click on "yes" notify me when I get a response...
I'm a long loved MOPAR guy, and a Journeyman steel fabricator too, I agree with the gas in the axe and the wire in the gun, like you said anything IS possible. Good luck to you on the adventure.



slow r/t man
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2003
10:06:07

RE: BIG Block 440 install
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Thinking about the 4x4 440 Dakota, what tranny were you going to use? transfer case? Axles? Even if stock stuff would bolt up it wouldn't last long with a mild 440 WITHOUT a blower. Sounds like you need a 727 tranny, 205 t-case and dana 60s front and rear. It might be easyer to put a Dak body on a older 4X4 Ram that already has that stuff.
Comparing a Viper to a max wedge or any other 60-70s muscle car for that matter is lame. You might as well compare a super bike to a car. You can turn on a torsion bar adjuster all day and night if you want, it won't change the geometry of the suspension, it just makes it stiffer. I stick by my previous statement that a Max Wedge car is gettint walked by a Viper on the street. I'm not putting 426 MW down, and yes they will run 10s,
just for a 1/4 mile at a time though. It has to be trailered to the track, Your talking about a full race setup.



jobucks
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2003
12:26:44

RE: BIG Block 440 install
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Dally, thanks for the response. The "page with the bent corner" that I refer to is the first emoticons, far left top row. Please excuse, like I said, new at this computer jargon!

Slow r/t man. Thanks for the response and info. Didn't "think" about putting the Dak body on a Ram 4X4 frame. (must have been a senior moment) Have to do some investigation "brain work" on such a project. I know the Dakota drive train wouldn't hold up, even being easy on it with a 440 set up. Talked with some of the "old hands" in the Mopar business, Barton, Bouchillon etc. They said I ought to consider keeping/building my 5.2 and get a blower intake from a small block. Difference in mounting it would be; weld mounting/bolt holes in the manifold and then redrill them for the "vertical holes" needed for the intake manifold with the Mag. heads. Bolt the 671 right on. Even using a stock 5.2 with the 671 would produce all the horse power that the drive train could hold up under. Why go to the "hassle" of mounting the 440 in a 4X4 Dak. If insisting on using a 440, especially blown, then use the 2X body and start replacing the drive train, Dana 60, back halfed etc etc. Got to "research" this thing thru and see what I can come up with. Just "from the old school" and thought the 671 sticking up thru the hood of the Dak 4X4 would be a pretty good site!

slow r/t man: as far as Viper and MW; comparing both machines,in "stock" form off show room floor, going stop light to stop light on street, it would be curious. If I recall right in one of the old Mopar magazines, when the Viper first came out, they did just such a "live, real life test." Have to go back and find the article. (darn I wish I'd learn to "catagorize/mark" those articles for future reference) I don't really remember what the results were. I'll see if I can find the article and let ya know what it said. But again, like you say, it was straight line 1/4 comparing the two.



slow rt man
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2003
13:02:29

RE: BIG Block 440 install
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If you insist on a blower sticking out of the hood that is fine. I guess my next question is
Do you intend to keep it fuel injected with a computer or carberated? I'd get a pre-magnum 360 and save the trouble of the verticle intake mounting issue. I thought I read somewhere that the first 360s (1972) were made from 340 castings and could be safely bored to 340 size making a 372 CID smallblock without stroking.



gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2003
15:42:40

RE: BIG Block 440 install
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It was a true race configuration. 11.5 or 12 to 1 compression ratio, even a 13 to 1 if you had to have it, dual quad cross ram induction, cast iron headers and the heads;the exhaust and intake ports big enough to lose a wrench down.

But jobucks....this WAS the package of the day. How times have changed.



jobucks
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2003
20:37:13

RE: BIG Block 440 install
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slow rt man & gen1dak, thanks for the replys, info.

I thank you for the info on the pre mag. and mag. blocks. Hate to admit it but never played with the small blocks, always the BB/RB's. Did buy a '57 Ply. Fury when it was about 4 years old, had a 318 poly with dual quads and looong cross rams. From then on it was nothing but raised blocks. I've ordered a couple Mopar books on the small blocks and the new magnums. Haven't gotten them yet. Your idea of the pre 360 seemed pretty logical. But since I've already got the 5.2 and some of the things needed, the blower company said they could weld/drill the manifold for an extra $100. Also they said that they could also get me an adaptor plate so I could pull the carbs off my 671 and use my computer and the injection. Probably have to go to bigger injectors and maybe additional fuel pump. Anyway, they're getting a "package" together for me and the costs. They're saying keep it mild and shouldn't have to worry about differential, axles etc. Just build the tranny up some. There comment was also it would do no good to make a "true" blown big or small block. Wouldn't ever be able to get it to "hook" since mine is a 4X4. Be a good street machine but nothing serious above that.

gen1dak, notice that I said that a couple of blower companies said they would put together a "package" and the costs for me. Yep! You're right! Back in my day and now today they offer/offered "performance" packages!

Got to go pull out my 30 years of Mopar Mags and see what I can "glean" from that. gen1dak, didn't I see where you posted that you are getting ready to install a 440?

slow rt man, not being sarcastic or anything but did you stop and ask the person with the 440-6 pack Road Runner, that you encountered on the e-way, if they were running 488 or 538 gears? LOL!!! What configuration are you running in your Dak?



slow r/t man
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2003
20:54:36

RE: BIG Block 440 install
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I really don't know what motor it had in it, It had the lift-off fiberglass hood and 440-6 stickers on it though. I'd like to think it was a 440-6. I'm very sure it had at least 4.10s in it
sounded it like it was ready to blow up it was wound to tight.



gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2003
20:55:56

RE: BIG Block 440 install
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Nope, wasn't me on the 440. No, I'm embroiled in the 360 Magnum swap. Snagged a 2001 engine and 46RE tranny. In hindsight, I'd have gone at it differently if for no other reason than just getting it done more quickly. Initially, I'm going the carb route as I continue to gather Magnum electronics. I may never go MPI, but the option is there. The tranny is the real pain. I essentially got it for free with the engine, but it's so computer dependent it'll never work as is. My '89 setup is more my preference. Besides, I haven't seen any sort of stand-alone computer to run the RE's. I figure this will be my big learning experiment with trannys. I'm stripping the electronic valve body out and putting parts in that essentially will make it a 46RH. So goes the great experiment. Now, with all this new Hemi stuff, I wish I had a 354 Hemi to drop in.



gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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11/11/2003
01:27:40

RE: BIG Block 440 install
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Before some wiseacre chimes in to tell me I'm wrong about the numbers....I'm not talking about the new 5.7L Hemi (345 cid), but rather the late 50's era 354 Hemi.



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