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duckcrazu
Dodge Dakota
10/28/2001
11:25:06
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 Subject: abs opinions...
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Message:
What do you think about 4 wheel abs?I have only owned 2 wheel and I liked them.
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CW
Dodge Dakota
10/28/2001
11:41:53
|  RE: abs opinions...
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Message:
I like it when it is a little slippery out but on ice I think conventional brakes are better.
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Knobbyman
GenIII
10/28/2001
11:46:53
|  RE: abs opinions...
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Message:
4 wheel ABS good.. ;-) u can always use your E-brake if you really wanted to lock up your wheels.
'01 Graphite QC 4x4
4.7 3.55 LSD
http://www.knobbyman.com
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Dakota 2 Time
Dodge Dakota
10/28/2001
15:42:40
| RE: abs opinions...
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Message:
In traffic 4 Wheel ABS is a deathtrap. I took a 4K loss to dump a 99 Stratus ES that had 4 wheel ABS disc. In traffic ABS will not slow down and stop a car/truck. It is only useful on open roads when a deer jumps out in front of you. Remember that ABS works by lengthining the stopping distance. I have seen more front end wrecks because of ABS. I never have it again. At least not until they make a system that works in leap frog traffic.
97 CC SLT 5.2 Auto 3.55 Brilliant Blue/Silver
01 CC SLT 4.7 Auto 3.92 LSD Flame Red/Silver
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dog
Dodge Dakota
10/28/2001
17:29:15
| RE: abs opinions...
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Message:
opinions, opinions, opinions. Facts are that most abs works great, reduces stopping distances and elevates the control in a panic stop to an incredible degree. All vehicles should come with it, and soon all will. It is like seat belts and helmets (with motorcycles), someone will always say they don't save lives. BS
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CW
Dodge Dakota
10/28/2001
17:34:24
| RE: abs opinions...
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Message:
It only lengthens the distance if you do not hold the pedal at a steady pressure. If you try and modulate the pedal pressure you will confuse the ABS thus lengthening the stop time. There have been many, many tests done on ABS and if you hold the pedal at a steady pressure it will shorten the stop time. It keeps the wheel at just before skidding and lossing all traction and control. It is hard to get used to though that is the biggest down side.
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CW
Dodge Dakota
10/28/2001
17:37:17
| RE: abs opinions...
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Here is a quick explanation on how they work for who wants to know.
http://www.autoshop-online.com/auto101/abs.html
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Dave
Dodge Dakota
10/28/2001
19:19:32
| RE: abs opinions...
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Message:
Nothing will stop your vehicle faster than locking all four tires!Period! As far as being able to maintain control,I doubt there are many people out there that will have the presence of mind to try to steer around an obstacle during a panic stop.Most people will stand on the pedal,lock their elbows and shut their eyes waiting for the impact.We are not all Indy car drivers!
I live in Florida were we will never see snow or ice and we just occasionally see any kind of sustained rainfall(more that a day).I bet I don't spend 30 hours a year driving in the rain and I drive about 30k miles a year.
I would just as soon NOT have ABS.Personally, I'll take the physics of friction over "technology"!
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CW
Dodge Dakota
10/28/2001
20:30:05
| RE: abs opinions...
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Message:
That may be some peoples case but the coefficient of friction is highest at the point at just before the wheel locks up. When it is locked you have melted rubber reducing friction as well. I did some reading as well. It may not stop shorter than conventional brakes but will stop within the distance of conventional brakes and make it possible to steer out of a situation.
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Ron
Dodge Dakota
10/28/2001
22:02:40
| RE: abs opinions...
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Message:
Quoted from above post: "Nothing will stop your vehicle faster than locking up all four tires!" That is just not true. Once the tires begin to skid, friction is reduced substantially. When the tires stop turning, you are at the mercy of inertia. You have no control. One thing I have learned, though: threads like this won't change anyone's opinion.
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CW
Dodge Dakota
10/28/2001
22:12:16
| RE: abs opinions...
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Message:
No kidding but it would be good for everone to know the facts and not just opinons.
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Dakota 2 Time
Dodge Dakota
10/29/2001
04:03:54
| RE: abs opinions...
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Message:
Like I said, 4 wheel ABS ONLY works on long stops. On short bunny hops in traffic they actually lengthen the stopping distance. In traffic there isn't even time to get to the pedal pulsing. I've stood on the brakes before. I know how to use ABS. That is what I experienced with my 99 Stratus ES. My Dakotas WITHOUT ABS stop shorter IN TRAFFIC than the Stratus did. The ABS in the Stratus got mre in too many accidents to trust ABS ever again. Not opinion, facts from driving witrh the things.
I agree that if you lock the brakes you lose traction thus lose control and takes longer to stop, of course we are talking the typical highway avoid deer type which is where ABS works okay. I am just saying in city stop and go traffic ABS gets in the way and make stopping more difficult. Talk to an insurance claims adjuster or body man and hear the stories where ABS did stop a car in traffic. There are even compaints filed on the NHTSA site about this.
97 CC SLT 5.2 Auto 3.55 Brilliant Blue/Silver
01 CC SLT 4.7 Auto 3.92 LSD Flame Red/Silver
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Andy VH
Dodge Dakota
10/29/2001
09:09:03
| RE: abs opinions...
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Message:
ABS does not work by lengthening braking distance. The ONLY, I repeat ONLY function of ABS is to ASSIST the driver in controlling the vehicle during high energy stops. Problem is, most people expect ABS to do everything for them. The actaul physics of ABS braking slows the tire just to the point of skidding. A locked tire does NOT have the same braking potential as a tire held just at the thresehold of skidding (as ABS does). A properly working ABS will leave tread marks on the road and you will hear some noise from the tires. ABS does work in all traffic conditions, but a skilled, practiced, driver can out-perform ABS. I used to work with Bosch on ABS systems and did a lot of test driving. It works if you use it right, it's STILL up to the driver.
4-wheel ABS is best, but 2-wheel on a pickup is good. The BEST thing you can do (ABS or no ABS)is to find a safe area to practice emergency thresehold braking with your truck, in all kinds of weather conditions. When you practice it beforehand, you'll react properly when the "event" happens.
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BMac
Dodge Dakota
10/29/2001
09:37:34
| RE: abs opinions...
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Message:
My first Dak had 2 wheel ABS. In the slush it would LOCK the rear tires fro an ADDITIONAL second or more AFTER you took your foot off the pedal. SO, you still had to control the slide/steer.
My '98 has 2 wheel ABS, I hope it's better.
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Dakota 2 Time
Dodge Dakota
10/29/2001
09:48:16
| RE: abs opinions...
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Message:
ABS sure lengthened the stopping distance required on my 99 Stratus ES. After I was having problems stoppingI went to a dealer and test drive a Stratus WITHOUT ABS and "only" had disc /frum instead of 4 wheel disc and the stopping distance when stopping short like in traffic, was noticably shorter. I also had my brakes and ABS checked out and all systems were "normal".
What is needed is an ABS system that (A) you can turn off (B) only operates IF the pedal is pushed down longer than a few seconds. This way it won't interfer wuth day to day driving and be available for those time when the infanous deer jumps out in the road.
I know what I have experienced and based on my 99 Stratus ES full time 4 wheel ABS is NOT SAFE in traffic.
Of course, anyone who makes his living making these things will tell you they work. They need the money.
I will reiterate, in MY experience I have found ABS does not perform well in leap frog heavy traffic. The kind where you move up 20 feet then have to stop suddenly. Like we have in "silly-con valley". Out on a country road, it is acceptable.
97 CC SLT 5.2 Auto 3.55 Brilliant Blue/Silver
01 CC SLT 4.7 Auto 3.92 LSD Flame Red/Silver
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Andy VH
Dodge Dakota
10/29/2001
10:40:42
| RE: abs opinions...
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Message:
ABS in slush (like ABS on gravel) will tend to lock a tire because of "stuff" piling up in front on the tire. That's why ABS is not recommended for off-road driving. Also, ABS systems come in different "grades",with some the brake release time is longer, and the cycle time is slower, resulting in ABS brake release lockup. BMac's experience describes this. Early Delco systems were lousy. Bosch served the higher end of the market (Corvette, BMW, etc). Also, stop and go traffic can put a lot of heat load into the brakes, and ABS will loose effeciency, so Dakota2Time you comment is well taken. P.S., I only worked with Bosch, not for them, but I learned an awfull lot about ABS. I guess the way to say it is"not all ABS systems are created equal". That's the danger of marketing and the safety Nazis, they make all ABS systems sound great, and ABS will save your butt no matter what you do. Always, it's still up to the driver.
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Ron
Dodge Dakota
10/29/2001
11:44:57
| RE: abs opinions...
IP: Logged
Message:
Andy VH has hit the nail on the head with both his posts above.
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Rascal
Dodge Dakota
10/29/2001
11:53:24
| RE: abs opinions...
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Message:
I HATE abs and the fact is that more and more vehicles are dropping it from their systems. I read this in a recent Car and Driver magazine. If you like it, order it as an option but it just raises the price of a car and most people do not understand how to use it and do not like it.
Just my 2 cents and doubt its worth that...
Good luck to all,
Rascal
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R/Truck
Dodge Dakota
10/29/2001
12:06:18
| RE: abs opinions...
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Message:
ABS saved my tires. My girlfriends truck never did lock up when I smashed into the car in front of me. Nothing like a smooth glide into a crash. Regular brakes would have stopped me in plenty of time.
ABS works great in the rain, to bad you can't turn it on and off.
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JP
Dodge Dakota
10/29/2001
22:38:58
| RE: abs opinions...
IP: Logged
Message:
I will weigh in with CW. It is possible that ABS systems can malfunction, just not real likely. If you crash into something with ABS you would most likely just crashed harder with conventional brakes. I have experienced uncontrolled skids and ABS. Give me control anytime. And I did put my money on them with 4 wheel ABS on my '01 CC.
JP
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BMac
Dodge Dakota
10/30/2001
09:39:31
| RE: abs opinions...
IP: Logged
Message:
ABS SUCK,
It has been proven that accidents have not decreased with ABS brakes. THAT's also because people depend on them too much and , in turn, drive too fast for conditions. As far as I am concerned, they are for people how cannot drive or have no experience driving. I KNOW what my Dak will do in the dry, wet and soon will find out what it will do in the snow.
PLAY and find out what your vehicle will do in all conditions. THEN, when the need arises, you can avoid scratching your ride.
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