| From | Message |
TEAMFAST
Dodge Dakota
10/09/2001
19:23:08
|
 Subject: RAM AIR
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Message:
Anyone running ram air configurations. This is
the only true cold air intake. As for the rest of
you, if K&N aint out with the 4.7 FIPK you are
just err...sucking, hot air.
A perfect spot for the ram air tube is the left of
the rad. But on my engine the AC lines are in
the way...
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
10/09/2001
22:57:56
|  RE: RAM AIR
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Message:
Well I feel ram air is a myth, what everybody is always talking about is cold air. Ram air to me means you have added air pressure or boost. Only a turbo or blower can do that not just a tube of air. Maybe a top feul scoop does start to make 1/2 pound at something above 200 mph but nothing you bolt up to your Dakota besides a blower or turbo is actually going to increase air pressure in the intake stream. All that said, cold air will help a bunch with power and economy so I'm all for a good 'cold' air kit, I just don't believe there is a true 'ram' air kit out there.
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guice
Dodge Dakota
10/10/2001
14:13:48
|  RE: RAM AIR
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Message:
any time you take air and can force it into a motor with out a turbo ect. you will get a ram air if your TB moves 650 cfm and you can build a system that can move 1000cfm at 40mph you have ram air. a top fuel car carb. may move 2500cfm so you have to have a system that will move more air than the 2500
bottom line any time you can get air to move in faster than the TB can move on its own you will get a pos. build up in air and it will be cold air that = HP. G-Forced is working on a system now for the 4.7 so keep on the look out for it.
Thanks Guice
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bernd
*GenIII*
10/10/2001
14:18:15
| RE: RAM AIR
IP: Logged
Message:
That would depend on the amount of bends, angle of the bends, etc. True "Ram Air" only works if it's direct. All the rest are just Cold Air Induction...nothing else.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged @ 10# w/Nitrous
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bernd
*GenIII*
10/10/2001
14:39:37
| RE: RAM AIR
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Message:
"Every 11 degrees Fahrenheit that the intake air temperature is reduced will result in a one-percent increase in horsepower." - Cold Air Induction
"All cars, except Indy and dragsters, have a number of problems in getting cool air to the intake system. The NACA ducts and ram air intakes attempt to provide cool air to the air filter box mounted on the top of the engine with a design to reduce overall drag, not pressure. In some installations, after all of the right angle turns, passing over radiators and other flow disturbances, its amazing that cars have as much power as they do. Basic aerodynamics dictate that when air is channeled through turns and bends in our intakes without veins, efficiency losses are tremendous. Don't be fooled by ram air suggestions. Even a highly efficient hood scoop out of the boundary layer of air flow like a dragster, is really only effective above 80 mph. "
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged @ 10# w/Nitrous
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Dr.Q
Dodge Dakota
10/10/2001
15:11:40
| RE: RAM AIR
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Message:
My wife is driving 60 I stick my head out the window like an Irish Setter. I open my mouth-there is more pressure going into my mouth than if I was standing still. I mean pressure is pressure. Sure you're not going to have a boost, but wouldn't at a minimum get a decrease in the vacuum?
Q
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Jon
Dodge Dakota
10/10/2001
15:51:33
| RE: RAM AIR
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Message:
One would think that any movement would increase the air pressure in a ram air system. It might not be a supercharger or turbo type ram but matbe a little ram effect. I see in no way how a direct intake to the TB wouldn't create more air pressure. Maybe Im wrong though.
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
10/10/2001
18:42:32
| RE: RAM AIR
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Message:
If you stick your head or hand outside the window you are outside the boundry layer of air flowing around the car. Most of what you are feeling is areodynamic drag, not pressure. The 1970 Challenge T/A scoop was trying to mimic the scoop used on P-51 mustangs but the engineers confessed they really needed to raise it another couple of inches to really get any effect out of it. At that point it's pretty much like a big parachute sitting up there. Whatever gains it might see from 80-150 MPH would more then be negated by the added areodynamic drag created, (like Bernd said!)
We have knocked this around in the past, just search around on the net to see what the pro's have tested and you'll see nobody is going to be able to make a ram air setup for the Dakota that uses the small space beside the radiator. Another bit of flawed logic is if your TB flows 700 cfm and your cold air intake can flow 1400 cfm, as long as it's bolted to that TB it ain't flowing any more then 700 cfm. It doesn't stack up that extra 700 cfm adding pressure. This would easy to test. Instead of hooking up your "ram" air to the TB hook it up to a barometer which measures air pressure. Drive at 60 MPH ad see how much the barometer changes from atmospheric. They are pretty sensitive and most have a needle that indicates how high it went up. I'd just like to see some proof from the manufacture that it really is ram air. 1/4 mile improvments could be due to the cold air effect alone.
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Dr.Q
Dodge Dakota
10/11/2001
00:34:36
| RE: RAM AIR
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Message:
But the gril wasn't made to have air flow around it it was made to have air flow through it or else your radiator would boil over and your a/c wouldn't work. But if what your saying is true and since the stock air system flows over 1000cfm why spend all this cashish on this air intake hokum and leave the funel in the wheel well to get cold air.
Because the 700cfm is relative to the pressure differential on either side of the TB. When you kick up a blow dryer from 600 to 1200 watts there is more air flowing through even though the opening is the same size because the motor is creating a greater pressure differential across the same opening. The CFM measurement is only relative to a 25" of water pressure drop from a flow bench. If you decrease the resistance to flow you decrease the amount of vacuum. I doubt that you could get any true boost/positive pressure from any "ram air" system. But decreasing the resistance to flow and increasing the pressure differential ascross the tb can be acheived by decreasing the vacuum in the distal end of the tb. If the pressure in the air intake system was the same as the ambiant atmosphere it wouldn't move. It moves 'cuz it sucks.
Whether or not this will have on horsepower, I don't know, I'm not a mechanic.
Q
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bernd
*GenIII*
10/11/2001
09:09:13
| RE: RAM AIR
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Message:
Hersbird: The TB's will only flow as much as the engine requires...in the case of naturally aspirated engines, 350-600CFM max (depending on CID and at what RPM). You're also totally correct as to the intake systems flowing more than the throttle body. However, it is a good idea to always have a filter and intake system that can outflow the CFM requirements of the engine...reason for that is the "just in case" factor: Just in case you haven't cleaned your filter in a long time or just in case you decide to add a few more HP additions (bolt-ons, etc.).
Ram Air in the conventional thinking (what you see claimed by most aftermarket manufacturers) is just Cold Air Induction. (Ram Air sounds better though...which means it sells better.)
Cold Air does work and will (usually) create more power...but there is a limit on how cold you can go. Colder air requires more fuel and a few more degrees of timing. Most PCM's will compensate (via the IAT) but there is a limit.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged @ 10# w/Nitrous
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BigG
*Mechanic*
10/12/2001
11:59:48
| RE: RAM AIR
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Message:
Here's what I did on my 3.9. I got the kit from Speedtweeks (upgraded to an Intense Air Quick Cold flex tube), They also sell a quick cold can that encloses the filter from the heat completely. One end of the hose fits on a flange on the filter's inner cone and the other has a mouth that sits next to the condensor. Notice I left a bent in the hose to collect the water so I won't soak the filter.
Here's a picture of it:
http://communities.msn.com/ProfessionalsChoice/ginosdakota.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=11
; )
2001, 3.9, 2wd, Auto, Club Cab, SLT Plus, Sport Suspension
Autolite 3923's, 180 T-Stat, Borg Warner Brass Cap & Rotor, Flowmaster Delta Flow 50 Cut In, Speedtweeks Stage 1 Kit, (Intense intake, 5.2 TB - Ported & Polished, Cable Kit & IAT Adjuster)
Long Island, New York
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HEATH
Dodge Dakota
10/13/2001
10:22:31
| RE: RAM AIR
IP: Logged
Message:
You cannot get a true ram air on a dakota without one HUGE scoop on the hood and running into triple digits speeds. All these "ram-air"
add-ons are just really cold air inductions just like hersbird and bernd mentioned. I have a motorcycle(honda F4) and was reading in Sport Rider about the ram-air on motorcyles. Which is a true ram-air STRAIGHT into the airboxes that sit on top of the carbs. They did a test with some high tech equipment. The pressure added in the AIRBOX, not at the carbs, was less than one pound. Accually it was only a fraction of a pound measured in mm of water. The best one in the test only reached equal air pressure(where there was no vacumn in the airbox)at above 80 mph. Horsepower gains at this speed was less than 1HP. They did have gains in HP at higher speeds. But those are motorcycles not dakotas. Motorcycles run well into triple digit speeds. 120mph and above in the 1/4 mile. Most dakotas will never see 100mph in the 1/4 mile.
Sorry for the long post, but in short, ram-airs for dakotas are just ambient temp air inductions.
Colder air than under the hood, but not ram-air.
HEATH
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TEAMFAST
Dodge Dakota
10/13/2001
20:39:54
| RE: RAM AIR
IP: Logged
Message:
Okay, so shaker hoods seem like the best bet
for cold air, even though they arent a ram air
configuration. Real hp costs tons of cash. And
worst of all it voids warranties...Not a good
thing for us with leases...even though I plan to
keep it, I dont need lemon aid...
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bernd
*GenIII*
10/14/2001
11:03:30
| RE: RAM AIR
IP: Logged
Message:
"Real Horsepower" won't void your warranty:
http://www.sema.org/warranty
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged @ 10# w/Nitrous
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Dakota Freaky
Dodge Dakota
11/20/2001
10:12:45
| RE: RAM AIR
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Message:
Has anyone tried the new shaker hood from Profinish Proglass? I purchased one and I believe the horsepower was increased along with the styling look of my QC 4.7 4x4.
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Dakota Freaky
Dodge Dakota
11/20/2001
10:16:31
| RE: RAM AIR
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Message:
Has anyone tried the new shaker hood from Profinish Proglass? I purchased one and I believe the horsepower was increased along with the styling look of my QC 4.7 4x4.
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Dodge Dakota
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Dodge Dakota
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Dodge Dakota
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