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Dakota Performance
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BlkDak
Dodge Dakota
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9/21/2001
20:26:47

Subject: under rated HP ?
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Is it true that the Hp listed on the v6 v8 are underrated somewhat ? if anyone knows ... do you know by approx. how much ?




jay
Dodge Dakota
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9/21/2001
22:02:31

RE: under rated HP ?
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well as i have been told i could very well be that the hp ratings could be a bit lower or higher due to the fact that chrysler is great for not centerlining there cams right from the factory ( but probably no one sets them right anyways). I found on my 97 dohc neon that my stock cams were out a little bit intake was out about 3 degrees and the exhaust was out by about 2 degrees, when i replaced the timing belt i slotted the cam gears and centerlined them and BANG there it was, big improvement, car pulled harder, ran smoother, and got better gas mileage.
I also think there is some kind of conspiracy goin on to with the whole emissions thing where they say that the hp rating is actually lower then it really is so the smog machines don't come knockin on the door to mess it all up.

just a thought
jay



cbsdakota
GenIII
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9/22/2001
04:09:16

RE: under rated HP ?
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I don't know if they still do but Chevy stated the Camaros real wheel horsepower for the HP at the crank to keep the insurance down. I think the 3.9's are correct. With an airaid or similiar cold air intake and catback exhaust, they dyno at 190hp and 250 lbs torque.

Project QUIKV6

Billybob
Dodge Dakota


9/22/2001
07:21:07

RE: under rated HP ?
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try when dynoing a V-6 with cold air intake, to pressurize the cold air BEFORE it hits the air cleaner sorta like what happens when you are going down the hiway and open it up. you will show more then 210 hp if it is done right. However some on here I know will disagree, if you have cold air under pressure you will have even more HP. sorta like a poor-mans turbo as it only happens at speed.



BlkDak
Dodge Dakota
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9/24/2001
03:22:43

RE: under rated HP ?
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ya i guess its sort of a thin line in knowing or not unless you dyno it for the "true" Hp ...



bernd
Gen III
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9/24/2001
08:37:48

RE: under rated HP ?
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RWHP of a stock V6 = 135-145
RWHP plus Cold Air and Exhaust = 148-155
RWHP plus Cold Air, Exhaust, and modified TB = 160-163
RWHP plus blower @ 6# and all above mods + headers = 190-195
RWHP with 9# pulley + above mods = 209-213

With all the mods on my Supercharged V6, we're now past the 210RWHP mark...that's more than 260HP at the crank.

These are all figures from past dyno tests on my '97 V6 and a few other V6's. The RWHP figures are using 20-24% driveline loss depending on transmission and driveline (2WD, 4WD, Manual/Automatic).

The factory 175HP is just about dead on though.

210HP is about 162-165RWHP with a cold air kit, exhaust, and modified throttle body.

On the intake pressurization, yes...you can get a few more ponies with it...but that is only once you're up to speed. (100MPH has a good "Ram Air" effect...at lower speeds, that effect diminshes. Cold Air Induction is a better terminologo for it.)






1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged @ 10#

kota4bye
Dodge Dakota
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9/24/2001
13:09:15

RE: under rated HP ?
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Ahh yes, the sound of reason. Thanks Bernd.



BlkDak
Dodge Dakota
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9/25/2001
15:23:49

RE: under rated HP ?
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thanks bernd... i would say that about answers my question !


What kind of Exhaust system do you have on your dak ?



kota on 20s
Dodge Dakota
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9/25/2001
18:10:52

RE: under rated HP ?
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bernd, do you have any dyno numbers for any 5.2's?

Eric



kota4bye
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2001
11:50:58

RE: under rated HP ?
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Eric,
I've got a 5.2 with some numbers:

5.2 4x4 3.55's 31 inch tires, stock except for AirAid and Gibson Dual Catback=176rwhp

MP PCM, QuickD TB, 3923's, and 32 inch tires got me-194rwhp





kota on 20s
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2001
13:17:42

RE: under rated HP ?
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hey thanks, looks like that PCM helped!

Eric



kota4bye
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2001
14:25:43

RE: under rated HP ?
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yeah it did! headers and 4.10's next. I hope the headers will put me over 200rwhp. I've got to order one of bernd's IAT adjusters too, that might even put me over;)



Trina
Dodge Dakota
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9/26/2001
15:24:11

RE: under rated HP ?
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Um, yeah I'm pretty sure that the HP is underated big time...but more importantly, you rocked in bed last night dj lots of love



LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/14/2002
14:43:33

RE: under rated HP ?
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how many mods would it take to make a V6 put out the same amount of hp as a 4.7??



Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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2/14/2002
22:30:02

RE: under rated HP ?
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In the old days they didn't exactly underrate the HP, they just didn't tell the whole truth. The 426 hemi probably did make 425 hp at 5000 rpm as advertised, the problem was it actually peaked at more like 6000 rpm where it was making 500+ HP. I don't think there is really any reason to under rate HP today. High HP is a way to sell cars, if anything other makes are just over rating their stuff. Insurance companies get their numbers from real world claims, and the EPA doesn't car if your making 80 or 800 HP as long as it's clean.



notchlx
Dodge Dakota
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2/15/2002
13:06:54

RE: under rated HP ?
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Yes in my opinion Dodge may have underated a bit... But it goes back to what somebody else said, it matters how balanced everything is.

My Dakota in stock trim turned the rollers to a 201RWHP
273RWTQ

It's a 4.7 Dak with a 5-speed.
If you figure like BERND said 20% drive-train loss, you would see 5-6 more HP than advertized.
Nothing to write home to Mom about, but hey every little bit counts.



LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/15/2002
13:35:56

RE: under rated HP ?
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20% is for an auto

5 speed is 12-15% which would put ur rwhp between 199 and 207 assuming 235 at the crank



LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/15/2002
13:43:17

RE: under rated HP ?
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what i wanna know is how nissan gets 255 hp and 246 lb ft out of a 3.5 and dodge can only get 175 and 225 out of a 3.9

the thing can't rev high enough the redline should be at 7000 then u would see something, they peak way to early...and i dont wanna hear any of that "its a truck engine" bs. people who want to tow get V8s that excuse works for the 5.9(sort of) but the 3.9 is just a weak POS lexus gets 220hp 222 tq out of a 3.0 these things have crappy dodge compression ratios



Brian024.7
Dodge Dakota
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2/15/2002
13:55:29

RE: under rated HP ?
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HP won't do anything for you without TORQUE to get you moving...

if you get into, HP is just a measure of Torque x RPMS/5252

the problem being that a truck needs low end torque to get moving off the line, and to get low end torque, you have to sacrifice high end torque (which equals HP). There is no point to having a 7,000 rpm redline, if the truck only makes power to 5500.

The nissan is also a DOHC engine while the 3.9 is a OHV. The nissan also has variable valve timing...and all that good sh*t I don't feel like getting into...

Its just not a fair comparison...just face it, its a truck engine



Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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2/15/2002
14:04:08

RE: under rated HP ?
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LI blackdak, well then buy your idea the Honda S2000 motor is the ultimate. It is not turbo or supercharger motor and yet gets what 230 HP from a 2.0 L? So that's about the same power as a 4.7 makes, so here's a question, if you put that 2.0 into a dakota in place of the 4.7 which motor would make the truck faster in the 1/4 mile? I'd guarentee you that the 4.7 would beat the 2.0 and the same goes for putting the 4.7 in a S2000. There is more to a motors power then just peak HP numbers, things like torque are pretty important as well. Take for instance two very similar trucks, the Chevy Trailblazer and the Jeep Grand Cherokee. The last head to head report I saw of these two put the 280 HP trailblazer slower in all performance catagories to the 230 HP 4.7 Grand Cherokee. So much for horspower envy the chevy guys try to hype up.



kota on 20s
GenIII
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2/15/2002
14:28:40

RE: under rated HP ?
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quote "and i dont wanna hear any of that "its a truck engine" bs. people who want to tow get V8s that excuse works for the 5.9(sort of) but the 3.9 is just a weak POS "

well, LIblackdak, since you agree the 5.9 is a truck engine, and the 5.2 is also a truck engine (just with a smaller bore/stroke than the 5.9) then the 3.9 is ALSO A TRUCK ENGINE, because its a 5.2 minus 2 cylenders everything else is exactly the same as a 5.2.

hersbird- i couldnt have said it better!! you hit the nail on the head with that post

Eric



kota on 20s
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2/15/2002
14:29:11

RE: under rated HP ?
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quote "and i dont wanna hear any of that "its a truck engine" bs. people who want to tow get V8s that excuse works for the 5.9(sort of) but the 3.9 is just a weak POS "

well, LIblackdak, since you agree the 5.9 is a truck engine, and the 5.2 is also a truck engine (just with a smaller bore/stroke than the 5.9) then the 3.9 is ALSO A TRUCK ENGINE, because its a 5.2 minus 2 cylenders everything else is exactly the same as a 5.2.

hersbird- i couldnt have said it better!! you hit the nail on the head with that post

Eric



kota on 20s
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2/15/2002
14:29:12

RE: under rated HP ?
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quote "and i dont wanna hear any of that "its a truck engine" bs. people who want to tow get V8s that excuse works for the 5.9(sort of) but the 3.9 is just a weak POS "

well, LIblackdak, since you agree the 5.9 is a truck engine, and the 5.2 is also a truck engine (just with a smaller bore/stroke than the 5.9) then the 3.9 is ALSO A TRUCK ENGINE, because its a 5.2 minus 2 cylenders everything else is exactly the same as a 5.2.

hersbird- i couldnt have said it better!! you hit the nail on the head with that post

Eric



LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/15/2002
16:53:36

RE: under rated HP ?
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i know it is its the same type of engine (LA class or whatever) the 3.9 is the 5.2/5.9 with 2 cylinders cut off...im saying like the rx300 puts out the same torque and 45 more hp or something

thats true about the grand cherokee, but the trailblazer is heavier too

what i meant by that quote is that the 5.9 is made for towing and so is the 3.9...my point was that the V6 should NOT BE A TRUCK ENGINE!!!



BlkDak
Dodge Dakota
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2/15/2002
18:24:04

RE: under rated HP ?
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Ll blackdak
you demonstrate pure ignorance at its best



LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/15/2002
18:29:25

RE: under rated HP ?
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no u guys dont understand that i do understand...i just think dodge could have squeezed some more hp out of it...hence the 3.7



Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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2/15/2002
23:39:01

RE: under rated HP ?
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The worst part of this story is how are government, (or should I say a few fools from south Dakota) are trying to force the truck engines to be car engines. Just let them be what they are, if you want a good upper end smooth power of a lexus or 300M (which by the way makes good HP for a natural 3.5) then buy a car. If you want tire frying torque by a truck (or at least a Dodge truck).



LI Blackdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/15/2002
23:47:51

RE: under rated HP ?
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yeah i guess u guys are right, but u have to admit the 3.7 would be better



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