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brianj
Dodge Dakota
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9/18/2008
10:21:15
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 Subject: stock rockers
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so i was wondering what the stock ratio of the rockers in the 318/360. i have a 318 99 4x4. but i found a set of viper rockers online for 85 bucks. i know this is a tired question but i need a refresher.
i know the vipers are 1.7 but are the stock 1.5?
and if anybody done this mod...and i know people here have. how many miles are you on them?
thanks
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Curly
Dodge Dakota
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9/18/2008
10:49:19
|  RE: stock rockers
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Stock ratio is 1.6
On a budget you can use the stock Viper rockers. If you have the cash Harland Sharp 1.7 Roller Rockers are better. The roller reduce drag and friction. However just changing from stock 1.6 to a 1.7 ratio is like doing a small change. It adds a little more lift and duration to your current cam.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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9/18/2008
11:15:42
| RE: stock rockers
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It's a noticable improvement. You pick a a little more duration, and more lift. You'll certainly notice the differance. Lots of bang for the buck there.
It's a pretty easy up grade. The stockers are pedestal mount. You simply unbolt the stock ones and bolt on the Viper parts. No adjustments needed. It will take you longer to get the valve cover off than it will to replace the rockers.
A good set of roller rockers will cost you at least three times that; some even more. Compared to the Viper rockers I doubt you'll see any differance on a stock cam. No bang for the buck there.
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brianj
Dodge Dakota
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9/18/2008
12:13:23
| RE: stock rockers
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Message:
ok im open to the roller rockers but i have a hard time finding them. anty suggestions?
and bob are you saying that the upgrade to the rollers compared to the normal rockers theres not much difference? or if your going to do it go with the rollers?
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ya
Dodge Dakota
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9/18/2008
12:34:37
| RE: stock rockers
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summit or jegs
they both sell them
you want the Harland Sharps as stated above
otherwise you need to mod the valve covers
(nothing more then extra time and a pain in the arse)
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onearmsteve
Dodge Dakota
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9/18/2008
12:50:30
| RE: stock rockers
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NOT TO BE A JERK! the rocker arm ratio change will give you more lift but WILL NOT give you more duration only swapping cams can do that!
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brianj
Dodge Dakota
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9/18/2008
12:56:48
| RE: stock rockers
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oh, i completely understand that. but i know that people have done this mod and i just wanted some input on it before i do it. and if its worth it.
thanks steve
and i looked up the Harland Sharps rollers and i can only find them in the 1.6 ratio. so my next question is... is it worth sacrificinf the .1 just to have a roller? or are you just breaking even?
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Nope
Dodge Dakota
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9/18/2008
13:21:56
| RE: stock rockers
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if your going to change them
just go to the 1.7's rollers and yes its worth it
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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9/18/2008
17:11:55
| RE: stock rockers
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Message:
>> and bob are you saying that the upgrade to the rollers compared to the normal rockers theres not much difference? <<
That's correct. Test after test shows that roller rockers make a differance at higer rpm's, like >4,500-5,000. And when valve lift exceeds about .500 or so. Roller rockers on any engine is a big expense, and may not provide any benifits.
>> NOT TO BE A JERK! the rocker arm ratio change will give you more lift but WILL NOT give you more duration only swapping cams can do that!
<<
And there's where you would be wrong. With the same cam, valve lifts starts at the same point. Can't change that without changing the cam. However effective valve lift occurs at about 0.050. This is the point where the gasses actually start effectivly moving through the valve. With a higher ratio rocker arm this will happen sooner. It gives you about 2-3* more duration. Not a lot, but some. For <$100 and a couple hours time, it's worth the effort.
Crane claims their new roller rockers lift the valve faster than standard rocker arms. Effectivly increasing the duration. If you're going to spend the bucks on rollers, I would get those.
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Bucket
GenII
9/18/2008
21:07:51
| RE: stock rockers
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Message:
every now and again i ponder the idea of Harland sharp roller rockers,in the never ending quest to milk every drop of power out of a 318,but then when you research it they say you should also change your valve springs to a stiffer spring if you have a high mileage engine,then you find yourself looking for springs to go with the Harland Sharps,then you start thinking better pushrods then you wonder..... will i really get a noticeable power improvement??? then i just say hell with it and put it on the back burner......... until the next guy brings it up again and we start all over again,more people need to step in and say look i got 1.7s maybe new springs and yes they positively kick ass,or see if someone that has done this thinks its not worth it power wise,and then maybe i will pull the trigger next and just do it!!
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brianj
Dodge Dakota
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9/18/2008
21:41:37
| RE: stock rockers
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Message:
thanks for the clear up bob. i think im going to go with the 1.7s but in a few weeks. (gotta get some dough $$) but ill definately let you guys know how it goes.
and bucket i know what your talking about. sometimes i think "just hell with it and ill put in a 360 already."
but then again back to the $$ issue.
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dakota49
Gen I
9/18/2008
22:02:42
| RE: stock rockers
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Message:
Bucket, I understand the confussion caused by all the talk here. If you keep the stock cam, then I wouldn't change the valve springs, just going to the 1.7 rockers will help, but not so much you would need new valve springs unless you already need them.
I hope this helps,
Good Luck
Dakota49
1988 3.9 4X4 5speed
dakota49
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LOL
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/18/2008
23:18:11
| RE: stock rockers
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Message:
"If you keep the stock cam, then I wouldn't change the valve springs, just going to the 1.7 rockers will help, but not so much you would need new valve springs unless you already need them."
owww well that really clears things up!
U Twit!
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Bucket
GenII
9/19/2008
12:28:46
| RE: stock rockers
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Yeah actually that helps alot,now i can just get the Harlands and not get distracted with new springs.I hope the power increase is noticeable.
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Jarhead86
Dodge Dakota
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9/20/2008
21:23:13
| RE: stock rockers
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Go to the Harlandsharp.com website to order your rockers direct. There price is $25 less than Jegs or Summitt. Yes they do make a very noticeable improvement. Worth the investment!
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Forseti
Dodge Dakota
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9/21/2008
17:45:56
| RE: stock rockers
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Where did you get the information that stock viper rockers are 1.7 ? A friend of mine who owns a viper says they vary between 1.54 to 1.61 .......
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brianj
Dodge Dakota
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9/21/2008
18:40:44
| RE: stock rockers
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i got the information on this website from prev. posts.
and they vary????
im not to sure about that one...
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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9/22/2008
10:34:56
| RE: stock rockers
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The newer Vipers (93+) have a differant rocker design than our Magnum engines. And I believe they are 1.6.
The older viper arms are what you're looking for. When you look at the parts side by side, the differance is obvious.
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brianj
Dodge Dakota
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9/22/2008
11:46:31
| RE: stock rockers
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so the only rockers that will work are the 1992 viper? because thats the first year.
now i know ive read on this forum that people have been putting in rockers up to the 02 year because that was the 8.0L. but the first gen viper was an 8.0L too.
so are those people lying? because i would like to know. i would like accurate information
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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9/22/2008
12:27:01
| RE: stock rockers
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i think the best way to know for sure would be to find some part numbers for the two and compare them. according to www.dodgeparts.com the '92- '02 rockers are the same but they give no part number or description? they do have a "Contact Us" area. maybe you should give the a shout and we could put this issue to bed once and for all.
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