5W-20 OIL - Dodge Dakota Forum

Subject: 5W-20 OIL
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SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil

Should you use it in your vehicle?

The answer is simple:

You get about 1% better fuel economy, but you get 30% shorter engine life !

The above statement is based on real life experience and is comparison to SAE 5W-30 Motor Oil.

In order for you to understand the above short answer, some lengthy explanation is in order!

The SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) has been the first organization that in June 1911 developed the SAE J300 standard that specifies Engine Oil Viscosity Classification.

The "SAE" then on the caps of glass oil bottles and later on the tops of paper oil cans, does not stand for any magic, it is simply the acronym for "Society of Automotive Engineers".

Before SAE came up with this scheme to classify oils by their viscosity in simple terms, which hopefully the motoring public could comprehend and easily understands, there was no simple way to tell how oil would behave in automotive engine when "hot".

Back then oils had no W rating, which stands for "Winter". Since cars were seldom driven in winter this was not a real problem. The roads were generally unpassable and vehicles usually not capable of starting when temperatures approached freezing.

Therefore the SAE viscosity rating was based on how quickly a specific quantity of motor oil flowed through a test ofrice when heated to operating temperature (100° C or 212° F).

The SAE Viscosity Number or "Grade" according to the initial SAE J300 standard was simply an average time in seconds that tested oil would take to flow through the test apparatus.

Since SAE did not want to confuse the public with hundreds of numbers and since the simple test yielded different times for different experimenters, it was decided to make the graduation in steps, rather than absolute test values.

Therefore the SAE Viscosity Number according to the SAE J300 standard was an "approximation" and NOT an exact measure

Examples:

Any oil that took from 5 to 14 seconds to flow would be SAE 10.

Oil that would take 15 to 24 seconds would be labeled as SAE 20.

Oil that took 25 to 34 seconds would be SAE 30.

And so on until SAE 50.

In the original SAE J300 specifications there was neither SAE 5 oil nor any SAE 60 oil.

The science of Rheology (The flow of liquids) was not well developed at that time.

Automotive engineers were neither scientists nor physicists.

Therefore it took several years before the SAE J300 "staircase" was translated from time measurement numbers in a crude instrument into a scientific viscosity values for viscosity expressed in Poise.

Not to confuse the motorists, who by then got used to buy motor oils by SAE numbers, the numbering system that by then did not relate to anything comprehensible was maintained.

By then the J300 SAE Standard was also recognized, but not adapted by API (American Petroleum Institute).

Hundreds of Oil producers had thousands of oilcans with SAE numbers already in the market place.

During the early days of motoring, the Motor Oils were "pure" petroleum oil with no enhancements in processing. Nor did Motor Oils contain any additives, therefore eventually oil marketers started to label ALL petroleum oils in the market place with the SAE Viscosity Numbering system Numbers, so that consumers could quickly identify what viscosity the oil was when "at engine operating temperature".

This early specification was important for simple reason, because oils sourced from different oil fields and different regions had vastly different viscosity index (which at that time was not yet well defined, although recognized by oil people).

Viscosity Index (VI) is nonscientific arbitrary value that simply represents the slope of inverse relationship of oil viscosity to temperature.

All petroleum will flow slowly at room temperature, and much faster when heated up.

Therefore as the temperature is increased the viscosity is decreased.

That is what is expressed mathematically as inverse relationship.

If one value goes up (temperature), then the other goes down (viscosity).

Some oils although they were thick at room temperature would flow as easily as water when hot, yet others that were not as thick at room temperature would not thin out as much.

This means that two different oils that appeared to have an identical viscosity at room temperature (which was usually the temperature at which the motorist would purchase or pour the oil into the engine), did have totally differing viscosity when heated up.

The early automotive engineers even then recognized the viscosity, as very important quality.

And above all the viscosity when "at operating temperature" or when "hot" was universally agreed to be far more important quality, than the viscosity when the oil was at ambient temperature.

This was especially important since one oil sourced from Gulf Coast, for example, could be thick when cold, yet unable to protect the engine adequately when hot.

By contrast another oil from Pennsylvania, which was lot easier to pour when ambient, would be just right for automotive engine when hot.

The first example of the thick when cold and really thin when hot, was oil with low viscosity index.

VI of ZERO – The thick black Gulf Coast Aromatic crude would behave like this.

The second example of the not so thick when cold and not as thin when hot, would be the oil with high viscosity index. VI of 100 (then thought to be the BEST possible) – The amber oil which came from the oil fields of Pennsylvania and consisting of the paraffin crude that made Pennzoil and Quaker State world famous.

Although the VI (Viscosity Index) was eventually defined by API, it was really not of concern to SAE and still till today is not part of any SAE specification.

The actual viscosity at differing extremes of engine operation is what Automotive Engineers today agree on as most important specification.

Over the 70 years that the SAE J300 Standard was in effect, number of shortcomings were discovered and the Standard was amended numerous times, and although its evolution is of interest, the discussion of its exact detailed history is far beyond the scope of this article.

However, here is in brief what has happened over the 70 years.

SAE 60 grade was added as the need for thicker oil in aviation and heavy duty engines became apparent.

SAE "W" grades were added in 1952 as it became apparent that engines could not be started in Cold Winter Climatic conditions with some SAE 30 oils. The "Winter" (W) performance was originally defined as viscosity at 0°F or -11.8°C.

SAE 5W and later SAE 0W grades were added as thinner "economy" oils needed to be defined.

Additional test specifications for winter performance were added to "W" requirements as engines failed mechanically in cold climate immediately after initial start, due to oil starvation.

SAE 15W and SAE 25W grades were added to further narrow the performance definitions in Winter Climates.

In 1970's minimum high temperature high shear specifications were added for performance at 150° C, when it became obvious that engines suffered from excessive wear or even seized at high speed high temperature operation such as long distance interstate driving or towing in Hot Summer climate.

So the changes to SAE J300 Standard were usually, until very recently, a reaction to "fix" an existing problem with lubricants that caused engine problems in service. This was either due to viscosity breakdown when hot or failure to flow when cold. In either case, resulting in catastrophic engine failures.

Last few SAE J300 Standard changes were PROACTIVE. They were legislated jointly by the auto and engine manufacturers, as well as, the lubricating oil producers, before any problems in the field occurred. This was based on research tests in the laboratories, and therefore done in anticipation of problems before they had chance to occur.

Many of these specification changes were necessary because today’s cars equipped with electronic fuel injection and electronic ignition will start immediately at much lower temperatures, than vehicles made just a decade ago.

Much smaller engines with lower engine oil capacities produce much more power and thus put oil under much greater mechanical as well as thermal stress.

Based on our experience 99.8% of motorists have absolutely NO IDEA what the SAE Numbers on Motor Oil Labels really mean.

They assume that the simple recommendations in their vehicle owner’s manual are "cast" in concrete, and the SAE viscosity of recommended Motor Oil can not be changed under ANY circumstances.

The fact that it is quite appropriate to either increase or decrease the motor oil viscosity that is recommended in your vehicle owner’s manual, if it is appropriate for YOUR particular operating conditions as well as desired engine life.

Here are some REAL time, as well as, laboratory tested "ultimate" and unchangeable truths:

1. The ideal oil viscosity for motor oil used in conventional piston engine operating at the "normal" engine operating temperature is equivalent to SAE 30. (In range of 9 cSt to 12 cSt @ 100° C)
2. If you use thinner oil (SAE 20) under these "normal" operating conditions there will be LESS resistance to motion due to reduced viscosity, and therefore BETTER Fuel Economy will result.
This gain in fuel economy does not however occur without costs.
1. Increase in oil consumption due to lower viscosity. Can be offset by better seals (they cost more)
2. Increase in oil consumption due to higher volatility. Can be offset by synthetics (they cost more)
3. Decrease in Engine service life due to increased boundary wear under some operating conditions
(this will cost more per mile driven or per engine operating hour)
3. If you use thicker oil (SAE 40 or SAE 50) under these "normal" operating conditions there will be MORE resistance to motion due to increased viscosity, and therefore WORSE Fuel Economy will result. This LOSS in Fuel Economy is somewhat compensated for by:
1. Decrease in oil consumption due to higher viscosity.
2. Decrease in oil consumption due to lower volatility
3. Increase in Engine service life due to reduced boundary wear and better separation of parts in relative motion.
4. If the ambient or operating temperature is INCREASED from the "ideal" or "normal" (70° F) then the oil viscosity MUST BE INCREASED to assure same level of protection and lubricating oil film integrity.
(It is not just better, but a must to use SAE 40 oil at 100° F ambient and SAE 50 at 120° F ambient)
5. If the load is increased such as when towing, the oil viscosity MUST be increased to assure the same level of protection. (Use SAE 50 when towing)
6. If the engine speed is INCREASED such as during long distance high speed driving in low ambient temperatures (so that the bulk oil temperature is not increased) the oil viscosity could be DECREASED that is SAE 20 is preferred to SAE 30 oil. (This however works ONLY in manual transmission vehicles where vehicle speed and engine speed are proportional and higher RPM can be maintained by more frequent downshifts if necessary)
7. If the load is decreased then the oil viscosity can be DECREASED
(When Empty Tractor is driven at 70 MPH on Interstate, it is OK to use SAE 30 instead of the SAE 40 that is specified and appropriate when the Tractor is hauling maximum load at 55 MPH)
8. The most important factor related to long-term engine durability and component wear seems to be:
High-Temperature / High-Shear-Rate specification shown in the last column of the SAE J300 Standard.
For SAE 20 oil it is 2.6cP minimum.
For SAE 30 oil it is 2.9cP minimum.
For SAE 40 oil there are two specifications 2.9 cP same as SAE 30 and 3.7 cP which is the same for SAE 50 and SAE 60, but why? Well the first specification is for light-duty engines (cars that are not expected to last beyond 70,000 to 150,000 miles) and the second for heavy duty engines (that is engines which are expected to last up to 1,000,000 miles). That is why oils which are labeled as HD or Heavy-duty must satisfy the second SAE 40 specification of 3.7 cP.

OK the final scoop on SAE 5W-20 and SAE 0W-20 oils:

You will definitely get better mileage with SAE 5W-20 then SAE 5W-30 oil, but not by much, usually the optimistic estimates are LESS than 1%. The bad news is about 30% reduction in engine life (from 100,000 miles or 10 years to 70,000 miles or 7 years).

Only manufacturers who have 3 years or 36,000 miles powertrain warranties currently recommend
SAE 5W-20 oil to be used in their NEW 2000 through 2006 model vehicles (FORD, HONDA).

By contrast Mercedes-Benz that offered 4 years or 50,000 miles warranty not only specified
SAE 5W-40 motor oil, but in the USA, to assure that only that oil grade was used, provided periodic maintenance FREE to all its customers. (Free maintenance was offered by Mercedes-Benz from 2000 model years through 2004 model year, it was cancelled on 2005 model cars and SUV's)

ALL heavy-duty engine manufacturers recommend SAE 40, SAE 15W-40 or SAE 5W-40 oil.

FINAL choice is yours, you can get BETTER mileage, or LONGER engine life.

If you are leasing a vehicle, then the BETTER mileage parameter is definitely more important as well as cost effective. You just do not care how long will engine last on a car that you will only operate for 24,000 to 36,000 miles. But how many Gallons of fuel you will burn will make a difference.

If you own your vehicle for the long haul, or indefinitely, then SAE 5W-50 is absolute must!

That is why SynLube™ Lube-4-Life® is available ONLY in that grade, since we guarantee 300,000-mile service life from engines that were engineered to last no more than 100,000 to 150,000 miles. It makes that much difference!

But due to unique colloidal technology used in SynLube™ Lube-4-Life® you still get mileage benefit that is 1.6% to 2% better than even SAE 5W-20 petroleum motor oils that are now used by OEM’s.

So with SynLube™ Lube-4-Life® you DO NOT have to sacrifice engine life to get BETTER fuel economy! You get both: lower fuel consumption AND longer engine service life!

Now it would NOT be fair if we did not explain what is the incentive for FORD and HONDA and soon other manufacturers to promote and hype the SAE 5W-20 motor oil for use in their NEW vehicles.

For many years in the USA automotive manufacturers and importers have been subject to CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) Standards that were passed by US Congress during Fuel Shortages and fears of America running our of Gasoline in few decades. These laws when enacted forced US auto manufacturers to not even match the fuel economy of then popular Japanese Imports.

The CAFE standards were (and still are) 27.5 MPG for cars and 20.7 MPG for trucks. And they were unreasonable when average US made car got 12 MPG. But also reasonable when average Japanese car got 34 MPG. People bought cars or station wagons, mini vans and SUV’s were not yet invented (or designed) and people used trucks for business and not commuting.

Today 52% of vehicles sold are in the "truck" category (SUV, Light Trucks, mini-vans) and most NEW vehicles get 8 MPG less than the "trade-in" vehicle they replace.

GEO METRO that got 50 MPG without any high tech tricks, because it is small light car, did not sell, there were over 2,500 units made year ago still on dealer lots throughout USA, after the production was discontinued in 2000 model year and majority of sales were not to private individuals but to rental fleets. At the same time there was 6 months waiting list for the latest SUV’s that get only 12 MPG, like for example the very popular DODGE Durango.

Car manufacturer gets a hefty Federal Fines for not meeting the CAFE MPG standards for every 0.1 MPG by which they fail, multiplied by the number of vehicles they sell.

That is $5.50 per each 0.1 MPG by which the standard is missed multiplied by the number of vehicles sold in previous model year.

Ouch, that runs annually into millions of dollars.

The success in the car industry is measured ONLY by how many vehicles have been sold in last 10 days.

Customer satisfaction, customer loyalty and especially vehicle durability, as long as it survives the initial warranty period is ABSOLUTELY of no concern.

Therefore every 0.1 MPG by which you can rise fuel economy does matter, and manufacturers are quite willing to sacrifice engine durability, after all the sooner you will wear out your new car the sooner you will buy another and that is positive impact on the 10 day sales statistics.

Nothing else really matters, not now, not latter.

SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil is GREAT – It yields better EPA numbers than SAE 5W-30 oil = better CAFE = lower Federal Fines for not meeting minimal CAFE standards. It typically to the manufacturer saves about $15.00 per vehicle in Federal CAFE Fines.

SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil increases oil consumption – More oil gets used, just great for oil companies everywhere.

SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil increases mechanical wear, reduces engine life – that way you will buy new car sooner = more sales for car manufacturer.

Everybody wins, but the vehicle owner, who has to pay more per mile driven in the long run.

So the choice again comes to either use the SAE 5W-20 oil and DO NOT OWN THE CAR – lease it or rent it.

Or if you do buy the car use better oil like SynLube™ Lube-4-Life® SAE 5W-50 and keep your car almost "forever".

The CHOICE IS ultimately YOURS !

Alternately you can use our SynLube™ Lube-4-Life® SAE 0W-40 PZEV Motor Oil that is designed specifically for new "green cars" that were actually engineered to run on SAE 5W-20 oil in the design stages. This Motor Oil is intended for 15 year or 150,000 miles service life and is warranted for this period.

Currently only FORD Focus PZEV and HONDA Insight Hybrid are cars with such engines available to consumers in USA. (TOYOTA Prius Hybrid has TOYOTA Echo engine which was NOT originally engineered to use the SAE 5W-20 motor oil)

Valerie
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2008
18:52:21

RE: 5W-20 OIL
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Oh. That's just BS.

tommy
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2008
19:47:59

RE: 5W-20 OIL
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Used oil analysis have show
low wear numbers in many engine
using 5W20, 300000 + miles and no more
wear than using 5W30 or 10W30.

To begin with, 5W20 flows faster on start-up
where 90% of engine wear occurs.

Less "viscosity improvers" are used too
so it's also more stable over time
than many other viscosities.
(less shearing)

your are full of B-S "John d'Oh"

idiot2
Dodge Dakota
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2/02/2008
08:20:44

RE: 5W-20 OIL
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That's all true. 5w-20 reduces engine life by 30% and 20w-50 increases engine life by 50%. Sure sounds logical to me.

Oil me up
Dodge Dakota
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2/02/2008
12:00:08

RE: 5W-20 OIL
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The 4.7L engine was designed to run on oil with a viscosity of 30 when at operating temperature.
Whether you use 0W-30 or 5W-30, the oil's viscosity is the same at operating temp, about 100ºC.
0W-anything flows better when cold than 5W-anything.

Stan or Not?
Dodge Dakota
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2/18/2008
15:47:11

RE: 5W-20 OIL
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Ask somebody that knows.

The former www.DD.com Amsoil site sponsor.

SUPPORT FORMER SITE SPONSORS RUN OFF BY THE FLAMERS.

The Amsoil guy (Steve the Amsoil site sponsor)
that was a site sponsor here for many years
(from 2002 - 2007) left due to the childish
behavior of a few flamers.

Steve has his own website:
www.American-Synthetic-Oil.com

Or,Steve can be found on another Dodge Dakota truck
site that has moderators and does not allow
undue flaming and childish behavior:

http://www.dakota-durango.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=105

kevin
Dodge Dakota
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3/23/2008
08:29:34

RE: 5W-20 OIL
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i dont know if any one no's or is interested but about 2 years ago the govmt made the oil companys take out an additive that helps with friction (zddp) reason was for the cats. but this additive helps with friction on older tappet engines. most newer cars are roller . just for giggles google ZDDP and see what its all about

tommy
Dodge Dakota
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3/23/2008
11:30:04

RE: 5W-20 OIL
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Yes ZDDP levels where reduced because
engines that consumed oil eventually contaminated
their catalitic converters with deposits, affecting performance
and creating higher emissions.

Other anti-wear additives have replaced it,
some ZDDP is still used in H-D diesel engine oils
and specialty brands that arent't API certified.

Lower levels mostly affects older engine with flat tappet valvetrain,
newer 'roller' engines aren't affected at all by reduced ZDDP.

P 1

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