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Adam
Dodge Dakota
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1/28/2007
22:50:54
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 Subject: Building up a 360
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Hi i am planning on building up a 360 magnum and shoving it into my truck, but i want to know the best way to on a budget.
Iv herd if you put on the 318 heads on the 360 that it breaths better being that the 318 has bigger valves.
Iv also herd that the 318 has a better cam than the 360 does,i was wondering if this info was currect.
Thanks
Adam
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BMac
Dodge Dakota
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1/29/2007
11:59:50
|  RE: Building up a 360
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According to my Mopar Performance books it is indeed correct. In fact the 320horse 360 has a lower lift cam as the stock Magnum 318 but the same duration. So even taking a 320hp 360 and shoving in a stock 318 cam would net you some more ponies!
BMac
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/29/2007
13:57:14
| RE: Building up a 360
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Just to clarify, this is true when using Magnum-series engines (1992 and up). On the earlier LA-series engines, putting 318 parts into a 360 is a definite no-no.
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Adam
Dodge Dakota
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1/29/2007
20:18:42
| RE: Building up a 360
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Ok cool thank a bunch, both the engines are magnums. One more question, should i get from the same years? like both a 93... or so on, or can i get the 92-95 and mix match years?
thanks again
Adam
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2007
01:07:20
| RE: Building up a 360
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318 Magnums started in 1992, 360 Magnums started in 1993. All 318/360 Magnum parts will swap. The Magnum intake and exhaust 1992-95 had egr provisions that later Magnums did not have. For 1996 the computers became OBD II and egr went away, so those things can't be swapped for fuel injection use in the 92-95 models because the provisions simply aren't there, but 92-95 can be used on later models by simply plugging the egr ports. The 1992 and a few of the early 1993 318's were the best of the lot. They had a slightly more aggressive cam (same lift specs, but slightly better valve timing and duration numbers). They also had larger internal diameter exhausts (2 1/8") for better flow. They were, in fact, better than any aftermarket header available at that time. Later units were smaller, at 1 7/8". A few early 360's also got the bigger exhaust, but the cam is standard 360 Magnum and not as good as the 318 Magnum. So basically, as far as heads, intakes, other bolt-ons and internals like pushrods, lifters, rockers, swap away on '92-'95's.
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Super bee
GenI
1/31/2007
01:31:17
| RE: Building up a 360
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i wonder what kind of power gains you could see from that on say a 2000 360 with 318 heads, cam,
would the pushrods need to be swapped as well?
1990 sport RC SB, 1995 318drivetrain, 3.92 gears (came with truck) Powertrax "traction system", 95 dash/steering wheel, hearthrob exhaust, headers, cutout after y-pipe, necessary electric fan add-a-leafs, 30x9.5 mud tires, cranked T-bars, AR 39 15x8 rims, grill guard, roll bars
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2007
12:58:27
| RE: Building up a 360
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The 360 would definitely perk up. No need to swap pushrods. Same valvesprings and retainers are used as well.
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hemichuck
Dodge Dakota
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2/06/2007
15:35:56
| RE: Building up a 360
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I have a whole fleet of dodge pickups and vans starting way back before the magnums were introduced and I have done quite a bit of building and rebuilding on these vehicles and as far as I can tell the 5.2 and 5.9 magnum heads dont have any difference whatsoever,same part number,same valves,same everything.The only difference might be the R/T heads that Mopar Performance sold.The cam might be slightly more aggressive in the 318 but I would be willing to bet you couldnt measure the difference in performance if you swapped them.The early motors(92 and 93) both 5.2 and 5.9 had the larger exhaust manifolds.Just wondering where you guys are getting your info? I've been building Mopars for about 30 years and some of the stuff that turns up here goes against all reason
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2007
02:54:15
| RE: Building up a 360
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Oh I dunno. Ever read the factory service manual? I have.
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hemichuck
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2007
09:16:08
| RE: Building up a 360
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Yeah,ive been over a page or two of just about every factory service manual from 1956 up.I also own a fleet of Dodge trucks and vans and now sprinters so I've had a little experience with them.Just wondering what your service manual gives as the specs on the 5.2 and 5.9 heads? maybe I just didnt get the memo.I do know one of my best friends races Dakotas and we have flow tested and compared every head made for the magnum motors since they were new including the aftermarket heads made by mopar performance and edelbrock Maybe you could enlighten me,I'm always willing to learn something new.Thanks in advance,hemichuck
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rammer
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2007
21:45:15
| RE: Building up a 360
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i agree w/ hemichuck.
i have talked to machine shops,dodge dealers,hughes engines, my chilton manual they all say the valve sizes are the same.
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ASS KICKER
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2007
22:04:36
| RE: Building up a 360
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TRU DAT
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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2/08/2007
00:59:34
| RE: Building up a 360
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Let's start with something easy.
http://dodgeram.org/tech/gas/specs/index.html
Click on the 5.2 and 5.9 links. You will see that the valve sizes are listed. Kick off your shoes and do the math. You can also find info on the cams, etc.
FSM 1998 Dakota. Section 9, page 121 has the valve sizes for the 5.2. 1.916" intake, and 1.624" exhaust.
Section 9, page 157 states the 5.9 valve sizes:
1.88" intake, 1.617" exhaust.
You can also find all other specs for these engines in section 9's associated pages.
"Mopar Engines - Speed Secrets and Racing Modifications for Chrysler V-8 & 6 Cylinder Engines" Pages 289 and 292. Same as the above-listed FSM figures. The book is Part No. P5249704.
"Magnum Engines" pages 215 and 218 in 1st edition Part No. 4876668, and pages 232-248 in the second edition, part no. P5007610.
They all list the same information.
Now I don't know boys, but the last time I checked,1.916 inches was bigger than 1.88 inches, and 1.624 inches was bigger than 1.617 inches. So, that means the 5.2 Magnum has, all together now, bigger valves than the 5.9 Magnum. Maybe you're coming up with a different answer. Forget to carry the "1"? Run out of toes?
Hmmmm, my facts, written by the people who designed and built the damned things, or he said, they said, somebody said, who dat tru dat? Yeah, right. Whatever.
Oh, one other thing, hemichuck. No, I don't have all the answers, but at least I have the balls to admit it. The Defense rests.
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hemichuck
Dodge Dakota
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2/09/2007
11:01:19
| RE: Building up a 360
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Gen1dak,I'm more than able to admit that I'm wrong.I looked up the specs and you are right.Like I said I'm willing to learn.I based my statements on the fact that I have worked on a number of these engines and swapped a lot of parts back and fourth and when ordering replacements from Mopar they will send you the exact same part(as far as the heads go)for a 5.2 and a 5.9. But then again I should know after 30+ years of building mopars that "factory replacement part" doesnt always mean the same thing as "production parts". I can also say that while nearing 50 years old I cant look at a set of heads and "see" the .036 difference between the 2 like you could on the old 340-360 heads(2.14-1.88=0.14)Maybe I need to get my eyes recalibrated!
On the other hand I do know from 30+ years of drag racing and building street cars that a.036 difference in valve size on the same ports or a difference of .022 in cam lift isnt going to make enough difference in engine performance that it would be a worthwhile venture for someone to run out and purchase those parts and install them.While you are right about the valve sizes and etc.wouldnt you admit that it would be poor advice to tell people to invest their money in these improvements? A lot of the people on this board seem to be young and in search of real world suggestions on what might help their performance and that is all I was trying to give them.I was 18 years old once and trying to build 426 hemis to race against other people on the street and I used to get a lot of engine building advice from super stock racers and while I'm sure they were knowledgable and well intentioned a lot of their suggestions didnt translate real well into street performance.I used to get stuff like...you need to have 12.5 compression... you need a .750 lift roller cam...or you need a crossram and two 750 holleys... all of which were well within reach of an 18 year old kid in those days.It took a lot of wrenching to figure out they were more interested in getting rid of their old parts than helping me go fast for cheap.It didnt take me long to figure out the difference between real world performance and what I read out of books(yeah i've got the original Direct Connection racing manuals P4007933)and I've spent a lot of nights pouring over what they said worked and what really made the car go faster.
I dont personally know you or your experience level and you dont know me either so I sure dont want to get into a pissing match over technicalities so I would like to extend my apology to you for sounding condescending in a couple of my former posts and to explain my reasoning for saying some of the things I did.
I will assume that since your title is gen1dak that you might be able to help me in a project I'm about to start.My 92 club cab Dakota just got rear ended by a guy going about 70 mph and needless to say the truck is wiped.I have an 87 short bed std cab that I am going to swap my drivetrain into.My truck has a 4 inch stroke 5.9 with gibson headers,MP single plane 2bbl efi intake,roller rockers and a bunch of other stuff.What all will need to be swapped to the older Dakota to allow me to use this engine as it is? are there any hidden problems that I might need to think about up front? Thanks in advance and good luck in all of your ventures,hemichuck
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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2/09/2007
12:16:43
| RE: Building up a 360
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The whole question of swapping 5.2 heads and cam into a 5.9 was initially asked regaring the differences mentioned, and the possible gains from such a swap. I have maintained that, yes, there would be gains....modest gains, and that if one were in the process of rebuilding, or happened to snag the 5.2 parts cheaply, they'd be a good swap, but as to being cost-effective, especially when looking at buying new parts, I have stated that, in view of the cost, potential results, and amount of work involved, it is much better to go with Mopar's aftermarket RT heads, or Edelbrock aluminum heads, as well as an aftermarket cam. That being said, the basic premise of the question stands. There will be performance gains, though modest, and the initial poster's (Adam) situation is ideal for this sort of parts swap.
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jesse
Dodge Dakota
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8/12/2013
12:50:09
| RE: Building up a 360
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I have a 1990 318 I was wandering if I could re-work the
heads to go on a 360. I'm just trying to save money
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Jerryteam
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2013
23:57:19
| RE: Building up a 360
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If the bolt pattern is the same then i would think it would work. You need to work them to get more flow though. It is pretty much just a chunk of metal with ports.
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