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22:25:31 - 04/26/2024
Dakota Performance
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jd
Dodge Dakota
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5/16/2006
15:17:18
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 Subject: sparks!?!?
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who is the resident ignition expert??
what exactly does an MSD ignition do??
will it take over control of ignition timing for the computer??
is a MSD a good investment for power
i built an 98 mag 318 for my 1990 dak 4x4
cammed, rollered, ported polished, port matched, main studded, cold air int, MSD coil and wires,
removed the egr, polished the TB, heddman headders, and magnaflow exh.
it hesitates, most noteable when cold.
hhhmmmmmmm
jd
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jd
Dodge Dakota
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5/25/2006
10:37:01
| RE: sparks!?!?
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BUMP
any ideas???
jd
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Wrong board
Dodge Dakota
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5/25/2006
13:39:31
| RE: sparks!?!?
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You're on the wrong board. No ignition experts here.
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daveshotdako
GenIII
5/25/2006
16:22:21
| RE: sparks!?!?
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it doesnt take over timing, but it does take over spark control. instead of one single weak spark, it send multiple sparks. with the addition of a timing module, you can then advance or retard your timing with the msd. if you get the msd 6al, it comes with a built in rev limiter. any model lower than the 6al, you have to buy the extra rev limiter module. the msd rev limiter is the safest rev limiter. instead of a factory rev limiter that reduces fuel, the msd radomly drops fire to one cylinder at a time and then fires that cylinder the next time to burn the fuel in the cylinder to keep from loading up one cylinder. if you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
GET IN, SIT DOWN, SHUTUP, AND HOLD ON
custom 48mm tb, tps @ .768, relocated IAT, 180 t-stat, autolite double platinum, accell 8mm wires, flowmaster 40 delta flow single in/dual out, CAI, superchips tuner
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Obio3
Dodge Dakota
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5/25/2006
20:20:45
| RE: sparks!?!?
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They also eat up dist caps, rotors, wires and plugs a lot faster. no perfomance gain I ever seen in mine, sold it. No fuel milage inprovements in mine . mine is stock. Unless you got serious mods, your waisting good money that could be spent for kool things. My experiances, my opinion.
So many problems .... So little time
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shatto
Dodge Dakota
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5/26/2006
20:25:48
| RE: sparks!?!?
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jd,
The Jacobs ignition does what 'daveshotdako' said the MSD does with the exception that it does it on a demand basis. This means things don't wear out so fast
I change plugs (el-cheapo copper Autolites, set at .55) at 30,000 miles, rotor and cap, two to three times that.
I've found that the inside of the boots gets very crudified with rust and electrical corrosion.
My 3.9 immediately ran smoother and was more responsive the instant I hooked it up. I justified the cost on the apx. 1MPG improvement. Paid for itself in about a year.
You'll find long conversations here about pinging and carbon. You will never have to think of that as a problem when your fuel is burned as well as the Jacobs, and I presume MSD will do.
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jd
Dodge Dakota
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5/29/2006
13:01:47
| RE: sparks!?!?
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i picked up a MSD catalog, they offer a off road ingnition controller, $299 canadian, has nyone had any experiance with this particular controller.
also, any ideas on my trucks hesitation when cold
also it will backfire slightly through the intake at the midst of its hesitation if i apply more pressure to the throttle
whats normal timing advance for the 94- 95 magnum engine, ive seen as high as 45 deg adv...
(i own a snap on scanner)
still cant figure it out
feedback is greatly appriciated
jd
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Huggins
Dodge Dakota
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5/29/2006
23:14:19
|  RE: sparks!?!?
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Just curious, but when you built this 318 did you put it into correct timing, advance the timing, or just install the timing marks dead up... "Correct timing" with this term I was referring to degreeing in the cam to it's best power potential specs... Incorrect cam timing can cause a stumble and backfire through the intake... Then when you attempted to set ignition timing did you turn the distributor, because this changes fuel injection timing or "fuel sync" not ignition timing and could cause some of the stated concerns if you advanced it greatly... I believe these engines run best at +3 degrees fuel sync... If you fix this problem the hesitation should go away, but if not try reseting you tps voltage to .9 or a touch higher... I also just noticed that you were using a 98 engine in a 90 truck... ARE you atleast using the 98 pcm with the engine because the 98 has a whole different setup...
MSD ignition does exactly as the name states, "multiple spark discharge", but only below 3000 rpms... Most of todays vehicles coming out allready do this up to 1500 rpms... This is to improve fuel burn and efficientcy... Cap and rotors burn up because of the low resistance plug wires teamed up with the high output coil... Mainly just because of the low resistance plug wires though... Also as previously stated you will gain nothing from the system unless you gap the plugs correctly... Most people on here run Autolite AP3923's gapped to .050" - .060"... I personally found .058" to be the best for my engine... Look for a golden brown color on the center electode insulation for correct gapping...
You may also want to try the jacobs out... I have heard that they do fairly well on the chrysler products, but I'v also heard some people saying that theirs wouldn't work straight out of the box or they would burn up on a regular basis... These statements were from people with other makes of vehicles such as fords and chevrolets... Haven't heard any bad statements from any dodge owners...
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jd
Dodge Dakota
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5/31/2006
14:17:04
| RE: sparks!?!?
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the engine is a 1998 from a van and the pcm is a 1995, please explain the differences, i put in the correct injectors for the pcm, and are the sensors not compatible????(they all plugged in)
my cam is a comp cams computer friendly cam that was suggested by a local engine shop for offroading. it is degreed as per instructions that came with it, i think i went straight up, yea i didnt need any special keys.
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TuckerLdlow
Dodge Dakota
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5/31/2006
21:00:42
| RE: sparks!?!?
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Shatto/Huggins -
I have an MSD that I bought over a year ago, still in the box because I didn't like the idea of replacing the rotor/cap every 10K miles or so. What if I just forego the high voltage coil, and stay with stock? Does the stock equipment "multi-spark" under 3K RPM, or should I go ahead and install the MSD with a stock coil? I can see where the multi-spark would help the mpg, but I don't want to do that if I'm going to be forking out for a new cap/rotor every 10-12K miles.
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The Purple1
DakotaEnthusiast
5/31/2006
21:34:37
|  RE: sparks!?!?
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Hi, TuckerLdlow!
The stock ignition setup and coil do NOT multispark at any RPM. The MSD (or Jacobs, or Accel, or-- etc...) DO multispark. But not all all RPM's; only usually below 3000. Above that, you get one single, hot spark. (come to think of it, that's where people do most driving, so...)
For the sake of argument; if you installed the "box", but left the stock coil, the system would still multispark. This is because that function is built into the "box", and is independent of the coil. This is usually not recommended by the ignition companies, though, as the OEM coils are not usually electrically compatible. The instructions with the unit will make clear what OEM or aftermarket coils can be used with their "boxes.
Any system, though, will work best with the coil from that company, that the company recommends. So I would strongly recommend investing the extra coin and buying the two ("box" and coil) together.
After all, if you are buying one of these, you want the most for your money, right?
Distributor cap and rotor life CAN be shortened by these systems, but I would consider it a relatively cheap ($20) price to pay..
Best wishes!
Extreme Velocity Intake, 52 MM Holley Billet, Ported, Hughes Plenum Plate, Perma Cool Fan, Jacobs Pro Street, Moroso Ultra 40, Bosch 4, Superchips, TPS, CPS, IAT Mods, Dynomax Ultra Flo, Transgo, SLT Trim, Diamond Heads & Corners, Clear Tails, Hood Pins, APC White Gauge, PML Polished Trans & Diff Covers...
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Huggins
Dodge Dakota
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5/31/2006
22:34:54
| RE: sparks!?!?
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97 - 99 year makes had pretty much the same pcms... Before that was a different body style and a different engine setup, such as if the engines had egr, this was designed into the pcm... Also ussually vans will have a different set up alltogether from the trucks... Nobody really figures on the owner needing extra power and torque if all their going to be driving is a van... Atleast that is how the head honchos at ford figure it, which is the vehicle that I'm really trained in to work on, but I'v always preferred dodges "before someone comes on here and bad mouths me for working on fords and yes they do require a lot of work", only the dodge dealerships don't tend to pay that well or care about the security of their employees that much... The Fords are the ones that use msd up to 1500 rpms, I just thought that dodge and chevy were both doing this now as well... I should have mentioned that before I guess... You might want to try a pcm out of a van of those modle years... You may find that this is the whole cause of the problem you've been experiancing...
The Purple 1 is absolutely right about the coils and if you did install the msd box then you would be better off to upgrade the coil as well and try not to mix electrical performance parts such as these, in other words the msd coil will work better with the msd box then say a high performance coil from another company... Not trying to promote or push a product here, just stating from experiance...
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Wadak
GenIII
6/01/2006
01:07:24
| RE: sparks!?!?
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TuckerLdlow,
If you want to prevent the dist. cap and rotor from burning out at 10,000 miles go to slightly higher resistance wires. The 50 ohms per foot of the MSD Superconductor wires will do that. I have 2 Dakotas. I run a set of ACCEL racing wires that are 300 ohms per foot. The ACCEL Super Stock are 500 ohms per foot. I replaced the coil wire to dist. wire one from the Super Stock set I had. I have run my Dak for 25,000 miles this way with no problems. I periodically check cap and rotor with noproblems. I didn't notice any difference in performance by doing this.
92 and 97 Daks both with many mods.
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jd
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2006
13:07:47
| RE: sparks!?!?
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the intake im using is the orig. from the 98 engine... there is no provisions for an egr, but the harness im using with the pcm had a egr, now i just left the wire disconnected for the egr solenoid, it throws a egr not connected code, can i put a resistor to in the connector to fool the controller, if so what is the resistance of the egr solenoid?
will a 1998 pcm plug into the 1995 engine harness??
jd
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Obio3
Dodge Dakota
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6/07/2006
14:51:20
| RE: sparks!?!?
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Wadak....... With all due respect I do have to admit you solved the 10,000 mile MSD tune up situation. Problem is you can't fix a problem of this type without causing another. What you have acomplished is to REDUCE the intensity or punch of the performance coil Back to something in the area of what you had prior to the instalation. I'm sure your truck runs fine. I'm also sure you see no differance in how it runs and I really doubt you seen any differance when you first installed the MSD.Point is, The spark you had originaly was more then enough to fire your plugs properly provided your ignition system was in proper working condition. Anything more then that does nothing what so ever. Once the plug starts the burn in the cylender, the gas itself spreads the fire. You can not make the gas burn any better or hotter or faster then it alreadu was. The MSD is actualy a great and needed item IF your engine is highly moded or running a S/C . It has the capability with it's multiple spark of HELPING to prevent cavatation in the usable RPM.s. Even Jacobs himself will tell you to use MSD rather then his system under these cercomstances.
I/m sure there are a lot of you that will not believe a word of this and it's ok. It's your money. Spend it as you like. It keeps these companies in business.
For those interested in a truely great way to spend money and save at the same time do this instead of the MSD or any other . Brase cap and rotor. 8 or 8.5 mm Silicon valconized quality plug wires. 30,000 volt coil with METAL HOUSING. It runs cooler so more stable.Champion truck plugs gapped 55 thousands. This setup is sweet. You guy s with the 4.7's are out of luck here coil wise. I have not fooled with your coil setup to know anything about upgrades ignition wise. It would be interesting to know if anybody actually tries this. Been a pile of costumers drove out of my shop with this setup. Never once did I get anything but good comments how well there car/truck was now running.
So many problems .... So little time
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