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Garry
Dodge Dakota
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11/17/2005
22:50:21
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 Subject: Premium or 87?
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I have a 99 dakota 5.2liter V8 w/ 109k miles. I was just wondering if it would be wise for me to put the premium stuff into my tank instead of regular 87. I hear that the higher octane only increases performance, but does it also effect gas milage and longevity of any of the parts of my engine? thx.
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Mark
Forum Moderator
11/17/2005
22:54:20
| RE: Premium or 87?
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I believe it was designed to use 87 octane when new. If you get ping/detonation/knock/preignition/marbles then use higher octane otherwise you can cause engine damage.
-Mark Hryckiewicz
1993 Sport RC SB 5.2L Auto
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2005
06:44:21
| RE: Premium or 87?
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Too high of octane can actually decrease both mpg and power. However, just because your vehicle is rated for 87 octane that doesn't mean it is the optimum rating for your vehicle. During the summer I tend to run 89 with a very noticable difference in gas milage. Other times it doesn't seem to make any difference.
Right now I'm running a Superchips 87 octane program and what I said still seems to hold true. With the colder weather I have lost significant gas milage and plan on trying the 93 octane program with 89 octane gas.
It's fun to experiment but for the most part you are not going to notice huge differences. For the most part you are looking at about 1-2 mpg if you carefully adjust the octane rating. Even buying different brands of gas can do that.
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MadMason
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2005
08:20:09
| RE: Premium or 87?
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I allways run 91 octane, cause it's the lowest grade gas you can get in germany. Will this hurt the engine? Could i expect gains when switching to 98 octane?
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crow318
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2005
09:12:25
| RE: Premium or 87?
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I have a '97 5.2. When i put the 93 in, I loose mileage. As for power, I can't tell the difference.
Some times people become confused with the octane ratings. For optimal power, you want to run the lowest octane that does not cause problems like detonation.
As for the 91, it shouldn't hurt anything at all. The only way you will gain with the 98 is if you currently have problems with detonation. You could always try and see. No harm in trying (except to your wallet).
N56629 is right about the different fuels. I have noticed mileage differences between brands.
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toolfan
GenIII
11/18/2005
09:57:37
| RE: Premium or 87?
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i ran Sam's Club gas 87 octane and the truck was detonating bad. but with chevron 87 she runs good...but 91octane i get better gas mileage but no power gain...152000m 5.2
and some mods to slow it down!
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chris
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2005
10:56:03
| RE: Premium or 87?
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Good question... while I don't have a baseline in my R/T yet, I can tell you that my wife's 99 Cougar (V6) gets a 9mpg difference between regular and premo. Her car gets 24mpg with regular and 29 with premo.
I'll have to try this with the R/T. I have been using Amoco Ultimate in the vette and cougar for so long it is just habit to grab for the gold handle.
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95V6
GenII
11/19/2005
01:21:48
| RE: Premium or 87?
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I switched to 91 from 87 when I installed jet stage II chip and got ~2mpg improvement.
95 3.9L 4WD V6, K&N, Gibson exh, JBA hdrs, JET stage II, MSD 6A, Rancho shocks and more..
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2005
01:55:28
| RE: Premium or 87?
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You lose fuel milage and performance depending on compression and this includes carbon buildup on pistons and heads > Higher the octain the slower the burn > This is why it helps with spark knock > It fixes nothing > It's a bandade fix for a problem that needs fixing >
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2005
08:47:59
| RE: Premium or 87?
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Damn, there must be millions of vehicles out there that need fixing then. It seems strange that people will change or modify almost every part on their vehicle, thinking they can make it better than Dodge did, but when Dodge says it "recommends" 87 octane they don't dare vary it by so much as one point. I guess I'll just continue running whatever works for me.
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I wonder...
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2005
10:38:45
| RE: Premium or 87?
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...why you (N56629) always seem to reject reasonable mainstream viewpoints. A certain amount of skepticism is healthy, and sure there are exceptions to everything, but you seem to always take the position that nothing is ever predictable, that there are no common characteristics between any of these engines, and that everybody's results will be different for no particular reason.
I'm really not trying to flame you, but time after time I've seen you mock people for making very UNcontroversial remarks, so much so that it seems like a kneejerk reaction on your part. Perhaps you are frustrated because your personal experience is anomalous, I don't know.
Please don't bother restating the obvious, like everybody's entitled to their opinion and the fact that many people mod their engines. Most of the time the OP in threads like this one say nothing to indicate that their truck ISN'T stock and I see no reason to assume otherwise.
Sorry for going waaay off topic, but this kind of pattern seems almost pathological.
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and BTW...
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2005
10:43:13
| RE: Premium or 87?
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...OBIO3 is right.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2005
11:43:43
| RE: Premium or 87?
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I wonder, or whatever, the person you are talking about didn't state it as opinion. It was stated as fact that "You lose fuel milage and performance depending on compression and this includes carbon buildup on pistons and heads." Sure if you carefully analyze it the statement it absolutely true but it doesn't allow for other variables. A couple of degrees difference in stock time can make a difference. Why do you think Dodge came up with the death flash? You can avoid using higher octane just take your truck to the dealer and have them detune it more than it already is.
Most people come here to talk about mods and not how to keep their trucks in tip top stock condidtion. Why wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that mods are involved rather than assume that their trucks are absolutely stock.
Not only that but you simply restate my position and then say I "seem to always take the position that nothing is ever predictable." You can't substantiate that by quoting me you simply spout that as being the truth.
If you are going to say that I "always" do something or another at least have the courteously to state the facts.
Now, again for the record, I do not say that you will either gain or lose mpg or performance by going to a higher octane or blending. Your need for higher octane can be caused by but are not limited to reasons set forth by OBIO3. I say that everyone that wants to should give it a try and make judgements based on results. This is exactly what everyone should do with every modification they make and adjusting octane rating is no different.
If anyone can't stand other opinions, it sure isn't me. Now feel free to discuss my opinion or continue to attack the messenger. Btw, you can do that in the off topic forum.
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Mopar318
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2005
12:40:10
| RE: Premium or 87?
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N56629: You would make a very nice column writer.....And I am serious too. You must have experience is explaining your points of view. Very well done!!!!!
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I wonder...
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2005
12:56:59
| RE: Premium or 87?
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N56629 said this: "Too high of octane can actually decrease both mpg and power."
He later says this: "Now, again for the record, I do not say that you will either gain or lose mpg or performance by going to a higher octane or blending."
Oh yeah Mopar318, he's a brilliant debater alright.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2005
13:05:14
| RE: Premium or 87?
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Thanks, done that, been there but I thought I was a bit inadequate to the task.
Ok, you other guys, jump right in there and agree with me. LOL
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2005
13:18:11
| RE: Premium or 87?
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I wonder, do you know the difference between using the word "can" and "will?" There is absolutely no inconsistency between those two statements. You could even put those two sentences in the same paragraph.
I believe your personal feelings are getting in the way of your thinking. Now maybe you would like to offer something constructive to this discussion such as your own experience. Are you one of those that ran to the dealer complaining about pinging rather than daring to try a higher octane? Did they detune your truck giving you less mileage and performance? Do you resent any suggestion that one or two points higher octane might have actually improved your mileage and performance?
If you want to get personal join the rest of the trolls in the off topic forum and leave this poor guy's thread alone.
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I wonder...
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2005
13:43:56
| RE: Premium or 87?
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The interesting thing is that while you demand incontrovertible proof from those who disagree with you, the only proof you have to back up your statements is empirical, i.e., based on your experience. That would be fine if you weren't making such broad generalizations.
So back ON topic, would you have argued with OBIO3's remarks if he had simply supported them by saying he gets good results with 87 octane? Not only are you not very good at presenting logical and consistent arguments but you're also a bit of a hypocrite.
So I'm off topic as hell, so sue me.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2005
15:07:16
| RE: Premium or 87?
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<i>"The interesting thing is that while you demand incontrovertible proof from those who disagree with you"</I>
When you make a statement like that don't you think it is reasonable to demand proof? Now where is that quote showing that I have demanded proof of anything?
<i>"the only proof you have to back up your statements is empirical, i.e., based on your experience"</I>
No, you have other people relating the same experience. I doubted toolfan's claim but accepted that as his experience. I disputed OBIO3's assertion that any vehicle that benefits from an octane rating higher than that recommended by Dodge needs to be fixed because it is just a "bandade." If that is from experience, his experience must be vast.
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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11/20/2005
01:12:48
| RE: Premium or 87?
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n56629 > With all due respect, you are more then welcome to your opinion , You failed to mention mopar puts hugh amounts of time developing an invirment within the engine that performs well > IT is getting tuffer to do as the years go by due to emissions and bad gas compared to the old formula > Yes I agree there are many things that cause spark knock but when you put your mind to it the problem is caused by HOT SPOTS in the combustion chamber that are being caused by something that shouldn't be happening > I only mentioned a couple > One I have never seen in here by nobody is the spark plug going into the engine a bit to far > This causing an exposed thread that turnes red and WALLA > Spark knock >
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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11/20/2005
13:01:28
| RE: Premium or 87?
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Dodge does indeed spend a great deal of money on design and efficiency. I've often asked people why they think that their modifications should be considered improvements.
A little more on topic - why do dealers reflash the PCM thus retarding the timing? Wouldn't those same vehicles benefit from increased octane rather than retarding the timing?
I think manufacturers often walk a tight rope between getting satisfactory emmisions and maximum performance. The fact that some people find increasing octane levels beneficial seems to support my theory that many vehicles fall outside that fine line.
I'm not talking about older vehicles that may have carbon buildup or have developed hot spots but newer ones. I'm fortunate enough to live in an area where you can frequently buy Super for the same price as Regular and it leads me to try different things through out the year.
During the summer I generally find it to my advantage to run either Super or a blend of Regular and Super. During the winter I don't seem to notice a difference, my mileage sucks regardless of what I use. My personal tests certainly are not conclusive but I think they warrant the suggestion that everyone should try it and judge for themselves.
I like your point on the bit of spark plug thread sticking out into the chamber. My last encounter was with a hot spot on a valve. Not only did this hot spot cause occasional pre-ignition it eventually warped the valve face. Needless to say performance suffered and required rebuilding one cylinder.
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