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dakotacam
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2005
13:22:18
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 Subject: want more towing capacity
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i have the 4.7 with the 3.55 open rearend, and 265/70/16 all terrain tires. my manuel says my towing limet is 4100lbs, i would like to boost this up to a couple thousand pounds. is there a way to do this without switching to the 3.92 rear end.
any help is appreciated.
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dakotacam
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2005
13:51:12
|  RE: I want more towing capacity
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manuel says 4800 lbs, my bad
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Jake D
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2005
14:52:17
| RE: want more towing capacity
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Assuming you want to keep 16" rims:
265/65/16 (30x10.5x16) will get you effective rearend ratio of 3.68.
265/60/16 (29x10.5x16) will get you effective rearend ratio of 3.81.
265/55/16 (28x10.5x16) will get you effective rearend ratio of 3.95.
265/50/16 (26x10.5x16) will get you effective rearend ratio of 4.11.
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dakotacam
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2005
22:44:35
| RE: want more towing capacity
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i just spent $600 on the new tires above, i thought i would get better traction on the boat ramp w/ the a/t tires. i had the stock 255/60/16's on before. anymore ideas besides returning the tires?
thanks alot
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2005
23:32:04
| RE: want more towing capacity
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There are lots of ways to increase power so you can tow a bigger trailer. But the cheapest and easiest is to change the rear gears.
A gear vendors underdrive unit would be better, but it sure is expensive.
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Jake D
Dodge Dakota
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3/14/2005
14:24:49
| RE: want more towing capacity
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The open rear is part of the problem.
If you do change the gears, as .boB suggested, have a limited slip put in at the same time.
If your Dak is 4x4, you have to change the front gears as well.
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Kowalski
GenIII
3/14/2005
16:01:38
| RE: want more towing capacity
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While changing from an open rear to a limited slip will help on a boat ramp, it will not increase towing capacity. A gear change is the best way to gain the extra capacity, but a power increase is another. The HO cams aren't peaky at all, increasing torque everywhere. Increasing ignition advance will also give you more power everywhere but you'll need high test for towing. You'll need to post the year of your truck to learn your options there. I've done both those mods and noticed more power towing. What are you trying to tow, and in what conditions ?
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Crow318
Dodge Dakota
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3/14/2005
16:03:45
| RE: want more towing capacity
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The towing capacity listed in your manual is based on alot more than just gearing. They look at total vehicle weight, and braking capacity. If you look at an extended cab vs. reg cab with the same setup, the reg cab capacity is higher (at least on the '97 numbers) That is because the gross vehicle weight is the limit here.
Changing gears, and more horsepower can only help a little. Also, the limited slip rearend won't increase capacity, it will only help you on a slippery surface.
Your truck can pull alot of weight. The key is getting all that weight stopped. Upgrade your brakes, and install a trailer brake setup. Make sure your larger trailers have a compatable system.
You also said you just bought new tires. Hopefully they have a good load rating. As your trailer weight increases, the tongue weight should increase.
Keep in mind, personal vehicles can get overweight tickets just like commercial vehicles. If you want to stay legal, the first thing to do is go to the DMV and increase the weight rating on your truck. You may have to pay a higher registration fee as well.
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dakota cam
Dodge Dakota
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3/14/2005
17:28:08
| RE: want more towing capacity
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thanks for the info, here is what i got.
'02 club cab, 4x2, v8 4.7l, 3.55 open rear w/ 265/70/16 bridgestone dueler revo's a/t tread,
i also have the regular k&n air filter.
i'd like to tow a boat 24 to 26 ft in length 4500 to 5500 lbs fully loaded plus the trailer, i'd guess a 1000 lbs for that. i think that the truck would pull it no problem, but like Crow said stopping is the problem. also i'm concerned that after a great day on the water, after putting the boat back on the trailer, my little dakota can't get the boat out of the boat ramp. bottomline is i don't want to be the doofess who buy's a boat he can't tow and then gets stuck, or smokes up the boat ramp trying to get it home.
thanks alot for the good ideas, any more?
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Kowalski
GenIII
3/14/2005
17:54:39
| RE: want more towing capacity
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Um, bigger truck or smaller boat ? I tow a 19' cuddy cabin, and yes, traction and braking will be the problem. There are some good PCM flashes for '00,'01 4.7s - not sure about '02; but power isn't going to be your biggest problem. With their streamlined shape, boats tow much easier than campers. Unfortunately their surge brakes don't help them stop as well, especially on long downgrades. Surge brakes hit hardest on initial braking as the surge actuator compresses, I've had problems with that and need to downshift my auto tranny to hold it back on longer hills, overheating my front brakes once before going to downshifting. In your favor is your larger '02 brake rotors, but I think you're pushing the limits here - both in braking, and traction coming up the ramp.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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.DOC.
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2005
01:24:32
|  RE: want more towing capacity
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Dakotacam, et al.,
Sorry for the long post, but,...
Beside braking, remember cooling issues with both the engine and trannie (if auto) as well as suspension limits and steering problems. (The more weight you put on the back=drop the rear end height, the more you unload the front tires). Consider an R.A.S. to aid keeping the rear springs from flattening with considerable tongue weight. I tow a '92 16' FSC Nomad that runs over 2 tons, wet. With between 6-800# tongue weight, I get 1.75" drop at the end of my extended EZ lift (ball nearly 1' back of the bumper) before tying on the lift bars. I consider that very little for that kind of weight leaveraged so far beyond the rear axle. The springs on our trucks aren't designed to be hard workers as much as to provide a car-like ride, so bed/hitch weight will tend to drop the tail significantly without something to keep the springs from de-arching. That drop can result in very dangerous steering situations (loose because the front tires don't have enough weight on them to maintain traction), so beware in putting too heavy a load on/in the back of the rig. The R.A.S. at $169 from Summitt was one of the better suspension tricks I did. Transparent until you need it, unlike adding leaves or helper springs which stiffen the ride all the time. If you check the R.A.S. web site, I expect you'll agree the value even if you don't tow!
As to braking improvement, Powerslots WITHOUT cross drilling, and Hawkhead pads. I came across a test of 10 different pads on both Ford and Chevy Police car with in-depth testing and the Hawkhead pads were second only to ACDelco. When I checked, ACDelco didn't make pads for my '00 QC. The pads are a bit noisy when cold, but provide excellent stopping, little fade and very little dust. Two seasons of towing and no warping and still superior (especially compaired to stock) stopping power. Hauling down my 3-ton truck from speed is not an easy task, but that combination does very well for me. I'm happy to supply an e-m link for the best priced vendors for both if you'd like. (Link info is on my work computer). I did significant research before selecting this combination.
Doc
'00 QC
5.9 w/K.B.s/c
&tc., &tc., &tc.
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last_username
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2005
08:44:32
| RE: want more towing capacity
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can I see the link?? I am interested in the ssbc or powerslots....
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Crow318
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2005
08:45:24
| RE: want more towing capacity
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I have the same Revo's you do, and I think they are great. I live in NY and they have no problem in the rain or snow.
I know boat ramps can get slipery, so the limited slip will help.
In your case, more power will make it worse pulling the boat out of the water. If you are spinning now, you are getting all of the power you can to the ground.
If traction is the problem, there are lots of solutions. You already have good tires. So this is what I would do. In this order.
1) try it first. you may not have any trouble.
2) Add some weight. Use a few sandbags, and make an effort to have a full gas tank.
3) Buy some type of traction mat. If you keep them in your bed, you can lay them down before you back into the water to get your boat.
http://www.countryhomeproducts.com/prdSell.aspx?X=1&p2Name=NewProductsDep&p1Name=NewProducts&Name=TractionMats&BC=0%3aHome%7c2%3aNewProductsDep%7c3%3aNewProducts&LinkType=3&src=AW49593XE2472747
http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/E-Z-6MAT.html?id=GRFoLsqd
4) Find a less steep place to launch your boat, or pay a little extra money a year to rent a slip.
I know that last one may be a little out of the question, but it is a solution
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dakotacam
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2005
09:55:42
| RE: want more towing capacity
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thanks for the great info, from everyone, DOC i'd like to see your links when you get a chance.
ok i'm thinking of changing my rear axle just for starters.as you know i have the 3.55 open. there is another number also 9.25(what does this # mean?) also do i have to change the entire axle or just the knuckle? in the middle(where the drive shaft connects). from other posts i've read where this costs up to $1000. i saw one (just the knuckle thing) on ebay for like $200 slightly used. anyone recommend ebay?
thanks again.
Crow, i live in south FL,so no hill's to speak of except the boat ramp.
i also have the extra smaller radiator, in front of my ragular radiator, i beleive this is for cooling the tranny fluid while towing, i prob do need after market brakes though
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Crow318
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2005
14:34:49
| RE: want more towing capacity
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The $1000 is for the 4x4, you should be looking at only about $600. Although, if you want to ad a LSD or locker, there is another $200. And as everyone says, it is one of the best money to performance changes you can make.
The other number 9.25 is the rearend size. The older trucks have an 8.25 size rearend. I am not sure what year they changed to the larger size.
As far as what to replace, you will only have to change the ring gear and pinion gear. While you are there you may as well do bearings. No axle changes required.
Slightly used is a difference of opinion. You can find great stuff on Ebay, but that would be something you would want a knowledgable person to look at. You could get lucky and find a person who bought the truck and imediatly changed gears to match some new tires or something.
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Kowalski
GenIII
3/15/2005
15:33:57
| RE: want more towing capacity
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Many newer trucks have the 8.25 rear also, the difference is wether or not you have the heavy duty (9.25) rear; not the age of the truck. This refers to the size of the ring gear.
Thanks for the tips on the brakes, Doc. I have the Roadmaster active suspension too and I'm similarly pleased with it. I found it slightly stiffer than the stock suspension unloaded, but not as harsh as helper springs.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2005
15:42:18
| RE: want more towing capacity
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My 01, 4.7, QC, with factory towing, etc. says it's like 6100lbs. You got the towing, braking package. Mine has 3.55 rear end also.
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dakotacam
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2005
09:03:03
| RE: want more towing capacity
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ok, thanks alot everyone for helping me make an informed decision. really appreciate it!!
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AndrewM
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2005
11:05:26
| RE: want more towing capacity
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Todd, the tow rating for 3.55 gears is about 1,300 lbs less than for 3.92 gears. For my 02 QC 4.7 auto, it's 6,000 lbs with 3.92 gears and 4,700 lbs with 3.55 gears.
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dakotacam
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2005
12:09:41
| RE: want more towing capacity
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sorry guys one more ?
i have a chance to buy 3.92 ring and pinion gear in the 9.25". can i add the lsd to that or is it something i need to buy all together, i'm assuming i can buy the bearings seperate.
thanks
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2005
19:53:57
| RE: want more towing capacity
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AndrewM,
Just going by the window sticker, I ordered my truck. Maybe the LSD, trailer towing, tire and handling, manual tranny?
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