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19:23:10 - 04/26/2024
Dakota Performance
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person
Dodge Dakota
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10/06/2004
19:08:20
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 Subject: yo gen1dak!
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I have a 318 engine. I want to build a supercharged engine. I am about to build up a 360 block for it but i remember reading somewhere you said that "if i knew what i know now i would have just built up my 318". What other options should i be thinking about while i still have my 318 before i throw down the cash for a 360. how far can i take my little 318? You seem to know what your talking about, thats why i ask. Thanks in advance
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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10/06/2004
21:12:39
| RE: yo gen1dak!
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I don't profess to know it all, but I try to help where I can. Yeah, considering the cost of the 360 Magnum I bought vs the cost of rebuilding my 318 and adding some hi-po parts, I'd go with the 318. Granted, the 360 has a torque advantage through the midrange, but multiple dyno runs show the 318 to be dead even with the 360 in high rpm horsepower. Now, these are street packages I'm talking about, but with the same induction system, and cam both the 318 and 360 show 400hp around 6,000 rpm. Sure, you can tweak here and there, but the differences would not determine a winner in a race. The 360, would eeeek out a handful more hp on top, but not much. In a Dakota, low-end torque is not as big a deal, and above 3,000 rpm the 318 rapidly closes the gap. Even though the 318 is a sentimental favorite of mine, I find it hard to believe, but I've seen several packages, and the numbers don't lie. The 318 is a real performer with the good parts. I credit the 318 with having a fantastic rod/stroke ratio. This makes it a touch quicker in the rev. dept. over a 360. Not much, but a bit. The 318 is like an iron anvil, very tough engine. In a supercharged situation, you need to consider how much boost you'll be running. A stocker can handle 6psi, no problem. Go above that and you'll be wise to get forged pistons and high quality rings to stand up to the extra stress. If you're gonna get new pistons, you might consider a stroker package. That will change the rod/stroke ratio, but not terribly, and you will have more cubes. Dollar for dollar, building up the 318 is a good deal. The stock bottom-end is stout enough for repeated runs to 6 grand, but a high-volume oil pump with hardened shaft would be a good idea.
These heads are fantastic, and will totally eliminate any Magnum-head envy if you have a pre-Magnum engine: P5249459
If you have Magnum, I'd add some Magnum RT heads to better make use of the blower, or at least have the stockers heavily massaged.
If you were to run a supercharger, that'd take care of any low rpm torque concerns. The 360 is a fine engine, but I love my 318's.
I'll eventually rework the Dak's sidelined 318, drop it back in the Dak, and pull the 360 for stroker mods for some other future Mopar project... like a '69 Charger. Hey, I can dream, right?
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person
Dodge Dakota
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10/06/2004
22:47:56
| RE: yo gen1dak!
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So how big of a process do you think it would be to stroke my
318? maybe to a 390? Do you know anywhere i can get a stroker
kit for the magnum?
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person
Dodge Dakota
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10/06/2004
22:49:51
| RE: yo gen1dak!
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and do you know how much the stroker kits would cost?
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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10/06/2004
23:51:52
| RE: yo gen1dak!
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Probably more than you want to get into right now. Strokers require custom pistons, and the lower cylinder walls must be clearanced for the extra rod deflection of the stroker crank. A heavy duty 4 inch stroker crank with 318/340 mains can be had for $365. 4 inch pistons for use with stock rods in a 360 are $40 each, so there's another $300+ hole in the pocket. But, with the block clearancing, that's really all there is. Naturally, you'd want to add better breathing via head work and better intake. Now, typically, stroker engines are machined etc (to assure long service life), and professionally assembled, so they get pricey in a hurry, as seen here:
http://www.speedomotive.com/mopar_318_to_390_street_master1.htm
This list has the pistons and crank for Magnum strokers:
http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/ram.html
Hensley performance even offers a 402 stroker 318 for around $5 thou.
It'd be a bit easier to slap a 360 stroker together since the parts are already there for everyone.
Not knowing how much you wanna spend and all, you'd probably prefer to stick with the stock displacement and play with the supercharger boost.
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person
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
07:50:53
| RE: yo gen1dak!
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I like the looks of that built short block 390, free shipping also! But it looks like it is a pre mag block? am i wrong? I wonder how rock solid that block is? I want to run about 10lbs of boost and be able to take a shot of nitrous also if i decide to go NA later. Will that setup hold up?
The stroker kit on krc costs about the same price as their complete 390 stroker block!
If i was to just build up my 318 without the stroke do you think new internals for the block (pistons, h-beam rods, etc.) could achieve what im trying to accomplish?
What setup do you have right now?
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person
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
08:32:28
| RE: yo gen1dak!
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BTW gen1dak: You said - "Probably more than you want to get into right now."
I am ready to tackle this project, i want to build a streetable engine with some major balls!
My budget is about $3,000 (for now) and i've already got the supercharger, just need to build the engine!
I just want to assure you that the information your giving me isn't for nothing!
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Sneezer
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
10:18:19
| RE: yo gen1dak!
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That is some good info. I am considering the same thing. Only problem I have is the fact that my 318 currently has 188k miles on it. Not sure if it is strong enough to survive a rebuild and stroker buildup with eventual S/C in a year or so. Mine is a 92, and is my daily driver.
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person
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
11:22:06
| RE: yo gen1dak!
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does the hughes engine 390 stoker kit require boring? Or are the pistons that come with the kit the right height to fit the new stroke?
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
18:55:22
| RE: yo gen1dak!
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10 psi and nitrous. Hmmm. That's a bit of a grey area. If it were me, I'd step up to a forged crank and some serious steel billet main caps all locked down with the ARP bolts.
http://www.pro-gram.com/
These guys could probably set you up with the caps. They don't list 318, but do list the 340, and the mains are the same size, so it wouldn't take much to whip some up, or you may find them somewhere else. Anyway, I'd definitely step up in that dept. Along with the other good stuff (H-beams, etc), you could do it. The pre-Magnum blocks are every bit as stout as the Magnum-era blocks. The pre-1976 blocks are even better due to a higher nickel content in the block material. Magnum or LA, you can do the same mods to either.
Sneezer, your engine is a great candidate for a buildup. With all thise miles, it's actually stronger than new. Every time you run it, the block gets a heat cycle, and the bores are straighter now than when new. Back in the 60's, the drag-racers would take new engines and run them for a season in their daily-drivers, or tow vehicles. Then, they'd pull them down and rebuild them into drag engines. These blocks have seasoning. Granted, this can only be taken so far in a street engine with limited beef. Eventually, they can develop cracks, etc, but you should be able to do some bidness with yours.
person. What static compression ratio are you thinkin'? With 10psi, you're gonna be makin' a lot of cylinder pressure. Something in the 8:1 area would be good.
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Sneezer
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
20:42:26
| RE: yo gen1dak!
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Cool. That gives me some more options to work with. After doing some research I decided I liked the potential of the rev happier 318 that I am used to instead of going with a 360 swap. Guess I will start looking into buying the parts I need piecemeal and stockpiling them. Hopefully I can minimize my downtime that way, and stretch everything out a little too. Lot of work need to be done between now and then though.
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person
Dodge Dakota
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10/07/2004
23:23:47
| RE: yo gen1dak!
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im actually still trying to find out the compression pistons im
going to use. Since the heads make up for a portion of the
compression outcome, im going to have to figure out what
heads im going to use first. I think im gonna try those new
aluminum heads from hughes engines, those look bad ass.
"390 stoker motor supercharged with diamond forged pistons,
aluminum heads, KRC 220 cam, and a 150 shot of nitrous". I like
the ring to that... how much horsepower you think? Keeping in
mind all the other mods that will obviously be there (headers,
ignition, 1.6 comp rockers, m1 intake, 52mm throttle body, shift
kit, stall converter)
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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10/08/2004
00:27:39
| RE: yo gen1dak!
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Over 500hp (at the wheels!!!) without even trying, and without the nitrous. I think maybe you need some flight training for that. Sheeesh!
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person
Dodge Dakota
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10/08/2004
07:58:20
| RE: yo gen1dak!
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haha i cant wait! I finally got it all planned out, i got all my part numbers and i wrote out a calender to organize this project. My expected finish date is probably going to be around april. Since winter is coming im just going to put my stock wheels and tires back on, take off the supercharger, and drive it as close to stock as i can over the winter while im building the engine. Maybe send out my accessories and supercharger to be polished. Thanks alot for all the info gen1dak, you da man! LOL
haha now i should just try and find a 1992 RC 2WD to drop that beast in! instead of my big 97 cc. now that would be fast!
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