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another mark
Dodge Dakota
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6/27/2004
11:41:32
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 Subject: grinding time on the intake
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here are a couple pics of the intake off the 99 3.9 and how much
material can be ground off around the ports
i put a gasket up to the block and made a line showing how
much extra material the factory left on these things, if you grind
it down it will match the heads more closely and help flow
better, note how rough the casting is in general, those holes in
the ports are the fuel injector bosses, some have said they
ground those flat but frankly since the fuel injector points
straight down anyway i didn't bother to do that, if you get too
enthusiastic and grind through something you shouldn't have
use jb weld
http://www.mark-world.com/intake.jpg
http://www.mark-world.com/intake2.jpg
http://www.mark-world.com/intake3.jpg
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
6/27/2004
12:40:52
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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you're not grinding the bosses flat.. you "radius" them... meaning you round off the corners. It helps the air flow over the bosses.
6.6 Lt. Big Block, 727 TF shift kit, 452 heads, edelbrock 750 cfm, .513/.513 284/300 crower cam, comp cams springs, comp cams pushrods, 1.5 roller rockers, dp intake, mopar ignition, mopar windage tray, dual exhaust w/ 40 series flowmasters, 4.10 gears, coilover drag suspension, approx, 3500 lbs
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prplegas-eatr
Dodge Dakota
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6/27/2004
15:09:05
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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yeah, i grinded mine flat with the runners from the other side, and elongated the ports
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grinded
Dodge Dakota
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6/27/2004
19:59:41
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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you mean you ground them not grinded right?
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racerX
Dodge Dakota
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6/27/2004
22:57:53
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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thanks for the pics. do you have any pics after you ground down the ports and runners? what did you use to replace your plenum gasket?
i plan to do mine in the near future. would it be worth it to buy that hughes engines kit with the aluminum pan? or just replace the plenum gasket with something better?
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another mark
Dodge Dakota
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6/28/2004
02:39:33
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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no, i didn't take pics after
i used the hughes belly pan kit which came with a gasket
i can't say one way or another that it's any better than factory i
just needed a fix for the oil problem and wasn't going to rely on
parts from ma mopar on this one
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greyDAK
Dodge Dakota
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6/28/2004
08:29:02
|  RE: grinding time on the intake
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JB Weld, is there anything it cant fix?
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another mark
Dodge Dakota
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6/28/2004
14:47:02
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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marriages
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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6/28/2004
19:27:00
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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After port matching the intake, did you port match the heads? The head ports can be small and out of shape as much as the intake ports. If the heads are not port matched also, the edge of the heads intake ports can extend out past the gasket and ported intake ports which the air will slam into causing turbulance.
If there's as much material that needs to be hogged out on the head intake ports as on the intakes ports there will not be a smooth transition from the intake to the head. Not a good thing.
I was told years ago by a machinist that if the intake is port matched the heads should be port matched also. Better to have a small hole flowing into a small hole than a big hole flowing into a small hole.
Just my $.02, been there done that, learned the hard way ;)
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another mark
Dodge Dakota
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6/28/2004
20:28:37
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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Hmm interesting. I wasn't going for a thing of beauty when I started grinding the intake, just looking to clean some rough edges up and get my truck running again. The main purpose in removing the intake was to fix my leaky belly pan.
The thing I don't follow in your line of reasoning is, if I opened up my ports on the intake and use a gasket between the heads and the intake ports I don't see how anything is slamming into anything as the gasket is the barrier between the holes.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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6/28/2004
21:11:11
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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Just an example, let's say the intake hole is 2", the gasket hole is 2 1/2" and the head hole is 2". A 2" intake hole flowing into a 2" head hole produces good flow.
Grinding on the intake hole to make it match the 2 1/2" gasket hole would make the intake match the gasket, but not match it to the 2" head hole. The 2 1/2" intake hole flowing into the 2" head hole will porduce turbulence since there is a "step" between the two mating surfaces.
This is kind of drastic, but the same kind of thing can happen if the heads are not ported along with the intake since the head intake ports probably have similar areas that the intake had, large areas sticking out beyond the gasket.
intake_____________
------->------------>OOO|__________________ head
------->---------------->--OOO (turbulance)---->
air flow ------>------------------------------->
------->------->------------------------------->
------->---------------------->__________________ head
intake_____________|
Hope this makes sense ;)
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prple-gaseatr
Dodge Dakota
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7/02/2004
17:12:12
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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hey, i am just finishing up my intake now, when you guys install a new plenum gasket, do you use any rtv sealant? i was thinkin it would make a better seal so i wont have to rip it off and do it over again...
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another mark
Dodge Dakota
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7/02/2004
23:39:21
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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The Hughes supplied gasket did not require sealant (the instructions specifically said not to use it) I guess the gasket is impregnated with something. Depends on what style gasket you are using, does it look reinforced in the center?
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Dont
Dodge Dakota
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7/03/2004
08:42:58
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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Do not use rtv with the gasket, I tried this about 20 years ago with the same thought, it just makes them leak faster.
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prple-gaseatr
Dodge Dakota
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7/05/2004
10:29:22
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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ok thanks
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
7/05/2004
11:55:54
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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i stay away from the paper gaskets. I just use gasket maker (permatex right stuff)
6.6 Lt. Big Block, 727 TF shift kit, 452 heads, edelbrock 750 cfm, .513/.513 284/300 crower cam, comp cams springs, comp cams pushrods, 1.5 roller rockers, dp intake, mopar ignition, mopar windage tray, dual exhaust w/ 40 series flowmasters, 4.10 gears, coilover drag suspension, approx, 3500 lbs
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prple-gaseatr
Dodge Dakota
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7/07/2004
01:24:31
|  RE: grinding time on the intake
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would it work if the runners were ground completely off to where it meets the head? like a single plane manifold, direct air into the runners. has anyone done this or know the outcome?
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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7/07/2004
02:37:01
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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prple-gaseatr, are you talking about completely hacking out the intake runners and only leaving 1/2" to 1" of runner leading into the head? I think this would be realy bad since the air is not being directed straight into the head runners. The shorter the runners are and the more volume the plenum has, the higher you move the power curve. IF this were to work you would need a lot of other things, opened up exhaust, better cam, stall convertor (automatic tranny), more fuel, and you would probably have to fool around with the distributor and/or timing. If you only opened up the manifold it would be a pig because the manifolds power band would be for high RPM while everything else would be for low RPM. You would probably kill the engine torque.
Manifolds are designed to deliver equal amounts of air and fuel to each cylinder. Go hacking on the plenum (carb or TBI throttle body) side and you could throw off the fuel delivery and run a cylinder lean while others might run rich.
I had a Weiand TeamG open plenum single plane manifold which had a power curve of 1500-6500 RPM and it had runners that were 2-3" long. In comparison, my other dual plane manifold had runners 5-6" long and the power curve was off idle to 5000 rpm. To make the engine run right with the open plenum TeamG manifold I had to change the cam, timing, carb jetting and add a 2000 stall convertor. A lot of things to change but it would haul azz.
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
7/07/2004
10:25:38
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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wow only 1500-6500 on team G?
i had one for my big block and it was rated 2500-7800... big manifold
6.6 Lt. Big Block, 727 TF shift kit, 452 heads, edelbrock 750 cfm, .513/.513 284/300 crower cam, comp cams springs, comp cams pushrods, 1.5 roller rockers, dp intake, mopar ignition, mopar windage tray, dual exhaust w/ 40 series flowmasters, 4.10 gears, coilover drag suspension, approx, 3500 lbs
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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7/07/2004
12:13:49
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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Yeah, there were a couple TeamG versions for my engine. I went with the shorter manifold with a smaller plenum and lower RPM rating to compliment all the other parts.
The big boy TeamG was too much for my combo and would have had the air cleaner sticking out the hood ;)
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
7/07/2004
14:51:13
| RE: grinding time on the intake
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yeah this was too much for my low compression motor... but it was just cool that you could look down this thing and see the port of each cylinder. And it said you could add another 200-500 rpms with porting.
6.6 Lt. Big Block, 727 TF shift kit, 452 heads, edelbrock 750 cfm, .513/.513 284/300 crower cam, comp cams springs, comp cams pushrods, 1.5 roller rockers, dp intake, mopar ignition, mopar windage tray, dual exhaust w/ 40 series flowmasters, 4.10 gears, coilover drag suspension, approx, 3500 lbs
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