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mmmmmmkay
Dodge Dakota
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12/08/2002
12:14:18

Subject: RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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It seems some 4x4 owners think the 4x4 is the only way to drive in the snow. Anyone want to have a test of this?? Put a 4x4 and a 2wd on the same snow covered road with the same tires(lets put the same tires the 2wd's come from the facory wit on both trucks) and give the 2wd guy some chains. Then see how far each guy gets.





mddak
Dodge Dakota
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12/08/2002
12:16:15

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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seems to me like the humvees are too wide [------------] to get between the trees and it can't climb over them. so they they gotta stick to the roads. just my opinion



mpil1
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12/08/2002
15:31:22

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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You can go outside at 6:30am when its still dark, about 2 out, and snowing like hell out and strap your chains onto your wheels; I'll go outside, get in the truck, turn the switch to 4x4 and be on my way. Don't get me wrong, I don't drive with the attitude that 4x4 will take me anywhere, because it won't. And of course, it won't stop your vehicle any faster on ice. The people who have this attitude the worst are the women that drive GIANT SUV's that have V8 and 4x4 badges on them. They drive like nothing can stop them. I just don't see how anyone, regardless of how skilled a driver they are, can say rear wheel 2WD is gonna be as good as 4x4 (let alone as good as 4x4 with LSD's or lockers) on loose / slippery terrain. Maybe I'm wrong, I just know I got to work in the snow the other day a lot easier in the truck with 4x4 than I used to in my 2WD oldsmobile.

Mpil1
'02 SXT CC, 3.9L, 5-spd, 4x4...Not Enough Mods Yet!!! Coming up this weekend (12/14)....Dana Trac-Loc

Lew
Dodge Dakota
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12/08/2002
17:18:23

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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I've been driving thru Canadian winters for 40 years in just about every vehicle goin. Believe me, there's no way a rear wheel drive Dakota compares to a 4x4 or even a front wheel drive. With decent winter tires the 4x2 will do OK on hard packed snow but won't come close in deep snow.

I had a front wheel drive Riviera that was real good in snow, but my best deep snow vehicle was a 4x4 Cherokee. You couldn't stick that if you tried.

My 01 QC 4x2 with OEM goodyear eagles was usless in the snow, but with good winter tires and some weight over the axle, it's not bad, but it's no 4X4



Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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12/08/2002
18:46:41

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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Yeh the Hummer -vs- Rubicon thing would come down to terrain. There are not really any swamps where I live, but lots of narrow trails and trees. But even throwing out swamps and trees, in most other situations the smaller more agile Jeep with a better power to weight ratio and better geering will do better. Plus you can put a snorkel on the Jeep, and you could carry a chain saw in the Hummer, neither is really "Treading Lightly" but I'd say cutting down trees is really not what they had in mind!



slick
Dodge Dakota
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12/08/2002
18:47:58

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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man did you ever try to put on a pair of chains, with or without gloves. no way. and they beat the crap otta your wheel wells. I even tried the strap on chains. they freeze up and it's cold as he11 puttin them on and they fly off and smack your truck. then they freeze on and you can't get them off. then even try to find radial chains. these guys that talk about chains, never used them. there just tellin stories



hammerdak
Dodge Dakota
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12/09/2002
22:26:11

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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I find it amusing that a 2wd fan says it's better than 4wd and then tells a story comparing a stock 4wd to a 2wd with a "posi" locked rear end and chains.
A 2wd with a locker is driving the same number of wheels that a 4wd with open differentials is.
Chains and studs are illegal in many areas so lets not add B.S.to the discussion.
It's only logical that winter tires out perform all-seasons in the snow,Duh......
Having limited-slip or a locker in the rear is better than not. The more wheels turning under power the better.
4wd gets you going better on slick surfaces than 2wd but makes no difference when braking.You still only have 4 brakes.
In fact you could argue that the greater mass of a 4wd vehicle should cause longer stopping distances.
My thinking is that a 4wd with a locker and snow tires is the way to go. If you get stuck with that you deserve it.
2wd with a locker and snow tires and some weight in the bed is better than 2wd and no winter preparation. An 82 Camero with 120,000 miles on a set of performance tires will get you stuck in your own driveway.
I hope I added some logic to this thread.



Need4Speedgrl
Dodge Dakota
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12/09/2002
23:25:41

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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It is kind of like in snow who likes rear wheel drive, if you drive to fast you are all over the road...if you have the 4x4 on then you have front and rear wheel drive...it is nice, but if you get stuck...4x4 in snow is nice because it gives you more control...it isn't like it is a contest, well maybe it could be, but...



DakAttack
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2002
10:06:17

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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Snow covered field, cut-your-own Christmas Tree farm. I wanted to see how long I could keep it in 2wd (LSD, AT Tires). Going up the first hill toward the trees, tires just started spinning, put it in 4wd, no problem. I kept switching back and forth to test the Dak (first winter with it), if I just had a 2wd, I would have been SOL.
2wd can fake it at times on the road, but to do anything real, you need a 4x4.



2isenough
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2002
11:02:20

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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DakAttack - you could have shortened that post and just said "I found out getting a tree that I have no driving skills."




Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2002
12:04:24

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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Well there Slick, I have used chains plenty of times. I drive chained up rigs almost everyday in the winter. I have chained up with emergency strap chains, cable chains, and real full link traction chains, on both 2 and 4wd rigs. I've chained up the rear of my Dakota, and the front of our old van, and all 4 wheels on my old Jeep. Now there's something that will go in the snow, a Jeep with mud tires all chained up, if only I had a front locker in that thing! The Dakota is by far the easiest thing to chain up I have ever tried. I guess a fenderless 32 coupe would be easier but if you are chaining up your duce coupe you need help! I can put the chains on the R/T in all of 5 minutes, and just scraping the windows takes almost that long! Proberly fitted chains don't ever even touch the wheelwels or body of a truck, they may have problems on some FWD cars that are not ment to accept chains but on a Dakota it's no problem. In very poor weather where chains are needed I don't think any city in the US would give you a problem with using chains, even if they are illegal. If I were driving around on vacation in the winter time you better beleive if I came to your town I'd be riding on 4 studded snows with chains in the trunk just in case. 4wd is easier, like I said I bought an AWD minivan for my wife who puts many more miles on our cars every year driving up to 6 kids around everyday (she's a nanny). She also gets 4 real studded snows, and here employers really appreciate the effort she takes to make a good winter car. It's really better then their Landcruiser and Volvo XC because they don't swap out the tires. That's all fine for her, and that's obviously the rig we use on family vacations in the winter. My point is that for our 2nd car (the Dakota R/T) the 2wd works fine, I could use another seat but I sure don't need another driving axle!



mpil1
GenIII
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12/10/2002
12:05:01

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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I'm sorry, but I don't care how much skill a driver has, more driving wheels = more control. You can be the ultimate skilled driver, and you will still get stuck in any rear wheel drive vehicle on a steep, snowy hill. Sure, maybe if you're really skilled you can use your brake to "trick" you open diff into "thinking" that both wheels have traction...but whats that gonna do about all that weight up front??? You'll just have two wheels spinning for a second. There is still all that weight up front and much less in the back. It is much better to have a wheel driving under that weight.... I'm just amazed at how many people out there think their Rear wheel drive vehicle will outperform a 4x4 where a 4x4 is meant to perform!!! Sure you're gonna get stuck in a 4x4, but it takes a lot more to get one stuck than it does to get a 2wD vehicle stuck!! Holy Hell People!!

Mpil1
'02 SXT CC, 3.9L, 5-spd, 4x4...Not Enough Mods Yet!!! Coming up this weekend (12/14)....Dana Trac-Loc

HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2002
12:45:23

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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Never said a 2wd can outperform a 4wd. And of course when you go off road a 4x4 is going to win, but on the road, unless it's drifted over with 3' or taller drifts, you don't "need" a 4wd to get around. I grew up drivng open diff rwd vehicles only in the snow. Bucking 2' snow drifts in a 2wd is fun, and never had the need for a 4wd. If I can't get there in 2wd, I don't need to be there. And I've seen some 2wd trucks go places they shouldn't have and drive right back out. 4x4's ain't "meant" for snow, they are made for off roading no matter what's on the ground.



mddak
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2002
12:54:33

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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I was in 2wd today with LSD and i noticed on icey spots the LSD when one wheel spun the LSD gave power to the other wheel and that made the truck have a tendency to push the back end to one side because that wheel got traction. Kinda swings sideways on a straight road. Never had a truck with a limited slip before. now i know



DakAttack
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2002
12:57:11

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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I read an article a while back in (I think) Truck Trend mag. The point of the article was to test 4wd vs 2wd in different conditions. They had two 'expert' drivers in the test, one who liked the 4wds, and one who only drove 2wd ("I can put a rental car in places other guys will not take a 4x4" the 2wd guy said). They had two Durango's out in all kinds of stuff, snow, dirt, mud, sand...and....the 4wd Durango ended up pulling the 2wd out everytime it got stuck.

So much for driver skills being everything.



slick
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2002
13:01:56

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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driver skill

that's like the 2wd drive guy usin a knife and the 4wd using a sword

who you gonna bet on



Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2002
20:55:22

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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So as long as we are going to extreams here, what kind of drive train do the fastest Baha trucks use?
Bottom line, like HSKR said, we are saying most people who have 4WD don't NEED 4WD. I have never seen the weather event where the only cars on the road were 4WDs! And still the only thing the 4x4 helps in is to get going quicker, probably the last thing you need to do on those really poor weather days!



QUADMAN
GenIII
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12/10/2002
22:51:16

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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Screw roads! Lets get off of the road in the snow and lets see how many of you 2wd guys can follow me! Nobody said a 2wd vehicle can't go on the road, who really cares! I didn't buy my 4x4 to go around on asphalt anyways! It's for OFFROAD!

OPINIONS ARE LIKE....WELL, YOU KNOW THE REST!!

HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2002
23:26:50

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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Quadman, let me chain up my choice of 2wd Dakotas, and I'll follow you wherever you go in the snow. Just bring the chain caue one of us ain't getting out on our own.





98dak
Dodge Dakota
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12/11/2002
10:34:03

RE: first time 4X4 in snow
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My friends live in north quebec, and its driveway its
a good 2000 feet long up hill, and believe me its
not easy to climb is driveway in snow. I do climb
and my friends drive a old 93 blazer. He can climbe to, but my friends tacoma never climbe there and a nother with a s10 z??, believe me its hard to climbe there. during the summer not even car can go up its driveway front wheel always spin.

so i can say that i love my dak and 4x4



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