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RoanokeDak
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2002
00:36:58
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 Subject: 2wd vs 4wd
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I grew up in the VA mountains, and always made my way thru the snowy winters in the backwoods just fine with old 2wd trucks that I winterized (weight in the back, chains when necessary).
When I was looking at buying a new Dak, I considered buying 4wd, but having never been stuck in all my 12 legal driving years, I saved the extra money and got a 2wd Dak.
I don't try to crawl over big rocks, or navigate rivers that aren't meant to be crossed.
I DO drive in snow up your @ss, icy roads and get muddy and dirty in the summer.
Driving skill is far superior to any 4 wheel drive.
Point is, I want folks like me, short on cash, to consider the 2wd Dak. Don't extend your payments for a 4wd you don't need.
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FromVatoo
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2002
00:58:23
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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Hey RoanokeDak!! I live near Salem, not far from you. I had a 4x4, but my 1998 Dak is 2wd, I can can go all the same places I visited with my 4X.
I don't know what things cost these days, but I wouldn't pay the extra for a 4x unles I was mapping unexplored areas of the Amazon. LOL
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Newhampdak
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2002
02:04:43
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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I run my 2001 2wd dak all winter. No prob.
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mddak
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2002
09:04:50
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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4x4 helps to pull a boat up a slippery ramp sometimes. I always had 2x now I have 4x . I did use it to push a heavy boat up a ramp into a garage - both rear wheels spun, 4x worked fine to push it. it's a toss up
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justa4x2
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2002
13:12:04
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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had mine for 3 years and the one year had 27" blizzard. got up the next morning, dug out the truck and took my mom to work. not a problem. i did have a little help from my 31" aggressive tires and a 3" body lift, but throw some cinderblocks in the bed, and nothing is going to stop me.
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mpil1
GenIII
 
11/16/2002
20:15:43
|  RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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I can imagine a 2WD will do fine for most use. I would suggest limited slip or something like a Powertrax No-Slip though. Would help you out in slippery places. I'm gonna put the Powertrax No-Slip in my 4x4....just need some better tires and I should have more traction than I'll ever need 
Mpil1
'02 SXT CC, 3.9L, 5-spd, 4x4...Not Enough Mods Yet!!! Next spring and summer will be busy!!
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John RT/SE
Dodge Dakota
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11/17/2002
00:33:00
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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I was considering 2wd's also, before I found my '98 4x4.
I'm glad I did get a 4wd though; Thinking about those times last year when 4-5' snow drifts were across the road to/from work (I live in Minnesota). The extra peace of mind (my wife worrying if I'll make it home or not) is worth the extra I paid.
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jeff kreman
GenIII
11/17/2002
02:20:36
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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If you buy a 4x4 you can go with more lift and much bigger tires versus if you get a 4x2. I have also never really had much problems with my 4x2, but I have gotten stuck. You live and learn, I always say its the drivers ability anyway.
Run your fingers over my truck, and I'll run over your fingers with my truck!
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mddak
Dodge Dakota
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11/17/2002
14:56:10
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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if you go with 2 wheel drive go with the aggressive rear tires. If you put automotive tires on the rear, they'll just load up and spin. They won't throw out the crap in the tread.
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justin
Dodge Dakota
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11/17/2002
15:58:53
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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I've found its all driving skill. People that don't know how to properly drive in snowy or slick conditions aren't helped much with 4x4.
my .02
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Clevite 77
GenIII
11/17/2002
16:20:33
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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I will admit, a 2wd is a lot cheaper, and may do well in rougher conditions than some would expect, but like mddak said, pull a boat up a slippery ramp in 2wd. I bought my 4x4 CC after leasing a 99 s-10 extreme. I was tired of getting lucky plowing through snow, the lack of power from the 4 popper, and the lack of room from that dinky reg cab s-10. I also ordered my truck with every HD option I could, (towing package, 5900# GVWR, HD service group, which included the HD cooling, 3.92's w/LSD and a 4.7L) and had no plans but back n forth to work, and as a daily driver, but I wanted something that was a little more fun to drive and with more capabilities, not to mention, once paid off, it will have held it's value so much better than a 2wd.
After buying my my Dakota, I helped pull out some 35+ year old bushes and small trees, all cases I had to use 4LO, with a little bit of a running start and I know a 2wd wouldn't have been able to pull them out, if so I'd like to see it happen, I was spinning all 4 on dry pavement. Then later this summer, I ended up buying a boat, which I never even would have expected. One day I just started looking, and about 2 weeks later I had found one and without 4wd, I wouldn't have even played that game. Sure I pull it in 2wd, but I have had some times where the launch was too slippery for 2wd and had to put it into 4wd.
Bottom line, if you can afford it, and your really not wanting a race truck, just get the 4wd option. Sure I may have only used my 4wd 15 times this year, but I'll tell you what.... it really came in handy when 2wd would't do the job.
I feel a 2wd truck is almost a waste. Unless your a diehard Mopar fan that just wants a new rwd V8, just can't afford it, or maybe you live in hot climate and you know you'll never need it, hey than more power to you, but I love being able to flip a switch, and not have to call for help, from one of my Chevy buddies.
sorry for the long post
Line-X Over The Rail Bed Liner
Grille-Tech Grill Insert (Silver)
Euro Clear Corners
Krypton 4300K Blue/Whites
Home Brew Intake
Dual Exhaust
3923 Autolite Plugs
TPS Set At .705
Removed Rubber Flap
I've used Mobil -1 Full Synthetic Oil And Filter Since I Had 6,000 miles
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mddak
Dodge Dakota
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11/17/2002
16:50:45
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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Clevite 77 -- you bring up a good point - if someone wants to buy a cheap truck, buy a 2 wheel drive reg cab. But when you go to sell it, good luck. there is no market for them. you basically give them away. Four wheel drive is worth $ 2-4 thousand more when you go to sell it. Yea 4wd costs you gas mileage but they are way more cool to have those 4X4 stickers on it.
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justin
Dodge Dakota
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11/17/2002
17:04:47
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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If people were worried about resale value, they would spend the extra money from the get go and buy a Toyota. Besides, who cares about a 2-4k difference in 10 years.
my .02
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dbbaker
GenIII
11/17/2002
17:42:17
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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I just had to drive back through a freshly disked cornfield to pick up the buck I shot this morning, 11 points and 185 lbs! My 4x4 sure saved me alot of hard work. If you think your 2 wd won't get stuck run it through a soft fresh disked up cornfield.
shaker hood/w k&n-magnaflow duals-ss grille-westin safari bar and nerf bars-
mtx thunderforms-are lid-z-liner sprayed in bed
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JP
Dodge Dakota
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11/17/2002
20:29:27
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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There is no comparison between a pickup with 2wd vs. 4wd. One is a marginally usable vehicle that is heavy in front and light in back. The other is usable and SAFER under a number of marginal conditions. I have been an owner of a variety of 2 and 4 wd vehicles over the last 30 years. You can cheap out on marginal 2wd or get something safe and usable under a variety of conditions. My $.02.
JP
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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11/17/2002
21:55:32
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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The front weight bias is even worse on a 4x4 pickup (think about it, the 4wd system adds nothing to the rear weight only to the front), I'm not sure where you are going there. The 4x4 also has a higher center of gravity making rollovers more common as well. The braking distance on the 2wd will be the same or better as well so I'm not sure why you would consider the 4x4 safer. If anything the only thing it will do is get you going faster in poor conditions, if anything that hurts saftey not helps it. 4x4s do have a higer value when you go to sell but I'd wouldn't say they have less depreciation. The 4wd adds $2500 on two otherwise identical Dakotas for 2003. Go back to 99 and the 4wd is worth $2000 more then the equal 2wd. Loosing $500 on just the extra $2500 spent is a good deal, but it doesn't matter much in the grand scheme when the overall truck has lost $10,000. Even though the 4x4 may retain a slightly higher percentage of it's selling price, the actual dollar depreciation is higher. You could say that something like a Hundai has horrible depreciation but when they cost $10,000 new you will never lose as much money as a new Landcruiser owners does the second he drives off the lot.
On the same note I took the R/T hunting this morning. Medium snow falling but not really sticking, with 1/2 inch on the ground all day. Should be peak of the rut but my Indian name today was "seenodeer". Did get a close up on a cow moose and calf which was cool, didn't stay long because I heard they are one of the most agressive animals around! I thought for awhile that if I get the new Ram maybe I should get the 4x4, but then again on the Ram it adds a wopping $3,400, That would buy that new Kenny Bell supercharger for the Hemi and the 500hp that goes with it. One may need 4wd even on dry pavement with 500 hp and 4800 pounds!
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xplikt
GenIII
11/17/2002
22:28:34
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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Hey, how'd you get snow?
We're only at ~40 degrees all week here. At least the mountain is getting some snow. Bring on the lamers, I mean, tourists!
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/xplikt/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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JP
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2002
22:47:08
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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I have not been on for a couple of nights, let me address Hersbird's interesting points. On weight distribution....you are correct in that most of the additional weight on 4wd will be biased towards the front. With PT 4wd you can offset that bias under limited traction conditions with the weight you have on the front wheels. If you have AWD, like I do, handling is substantially improved with power to front and rear. Water in the road poses much less of a problem with the AWD. Center of gravity....yes the 4wd does sit a little higher. I think most of the difference is in the tires but I could be mistaken. One of the reasons I selected this vehicle is because it does not sit all that high from the ground (as compared to a stock '77 K10 Chev for example) and has IFS which I think is better for on-road handling. Lets talk brakes. The difference in stopping with a 4wd/awd and 2wd will only be weight. Since these are desgned to tow and haul I seriously doubt there will be a material difference there. Good point about people getting themselves into trouble though. Many people do not understand the differences and LIMITATIONS in capabilities between the 4wd and 2wd. Contrary to assertions I seen elsewhere as well, a 4wd system CAN stop faster on limited traction surfaces if the brakes are not locked down. The difference is in static versus dynamic friction, the same basis for ABS being able to stop faster. The 4wd system will keep tires rotating on both axles as you are trying to stop verus rear only with 2wd. I will concede the cost calculations and assert that if you don't feel you are getting your moneys worth then you should not get it. I noted you did not assert a gas milage advantage for 2wd. I seem to get the same fuel economy with my AWD as anybody with 2wd I've seen posts for. I am not sure that would be true for other makes. Good luck with your hunting or viewing Hersbird! JP
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Lemmers
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
09:36:28
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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I agree with RoanokeDak, if you don’t take
your truck off road 4wd is nice, but it’s a scam.
I’m 20 miles south of Green Bay Wisconsin
and drive in plenty of show each winter. I had
a ‘92 Jeep Comanche 4x4 before I got my new
Quad, it was a great truck but almost every
problem I had with it was 4x4 related. I put
three sets of front u-joints in it and a transfer
case seal. Same story, only worse with my
wife’s 95 AWD Jeep Grand Cherokee: CV
joints once, CV boots twice, front drive shaft
transfer case seal, transfer case input shaft
seal and front axle seals.
If you don’t off road and you plan on keeping
your truck after the warranty runs out I’d pass
on the 4x4 option. Hell, the only time I used
the 4wd in my Comanche was to drive through
the show up my driveway before getting the
snow blower out. (Now I have to blow out the
driveway first)
IMHO a lot of people have been beaten over
the head with the “only a 4x4 will go through
show” mentality. I’d be really curious to know
the percentage of 2wd to 4wd trucks sold in
the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s. Maybe I’m
showing my age, but there used to be a lot
more 2wd trucks on the road. 4wd trucks
were all on the farm....
my two cents,
Lemmers
'02 Quad Sport Plus, 4.7,5spd,3.55LSD,
dropped, tinted, de-stickered, RT wheels and
Toyos, Access Cover
'88 LX 5.0 12.7@107 w/75 horse dry shot,
100,000 miles!
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
10:50:20
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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I am a mailman here in Montana as well. We have over 50 trucks in the city I work in and only 3 of them are 4wd. The rest are RWD. Working day after day with the 2wd trucks (we only got the 3 4wds last year) convinced me that I too could do fine with a 2wd. The mailtrucks have to plow through big snowbanks all the time to get to the curbside boxes. We do chain them up, but I also have chains for my Dakota as well although I have never needed them. Talk about bad brakes though, those mail trucks are the worst I have ever driven. Many have the bias so far out of wack it is impossible to stop them on snow and ice without shifting into neutral, the rear tires will just drive the sliding fronts forever. Sometimes you get neutral, sometimes reverse or park, whatever it stops the truck. I have put saftey calls on it because it sure isn't going to cost me my job because of GM's crappy design! At least it forces you to really think when driving.
We have no snow in the valley here but you only have to go 15 miles out into the mountains to find snow. Pretty much most all of the state and timber company lands that are huntable have at least a skiff to upwards of 10 inches.
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xplikt
GenIII
11/19/2002
11:00:38
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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Message:
UPS truck drivers scare me more.
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/xplikt/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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mddak
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
14:51:48
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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If I found a 2WD or 4WD truck I liked I'd buy it .. 4WD is nice but you pay everyday in mileage and maintenace. So it comes down to personal choice and advertising.
Yeh we're all going to climb up that mountain in our 4X4's to that magical spot with that sweet young thing sitting next to us.
Me, I put it in 4X4 every now and then to see if it works and once in a while I do use it - why not, I got it.
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langster
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
15:35:30
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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I had a 4WD Bronco II that I off roaded. I think I put it in 4WD like 3 or 4 times ever. I also had lots of problems with all the 4WD parts as it got old. Lots of problems!
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Will
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
18:07:02
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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Three words: LAKE EFFECT SNOW that is enough to have to use 4WD almost everytime you go out in it. Anybody remember Buffalo last year that was lake effect snow.
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JP
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
21:22:58
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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Whether you are talking about greater payload, more HP, ABS, 4wd or AWD, extended capability in a vehicle is a value decision to be made by a prospective owner. I personally value AWD and ABS in my vehicles. It is like insurance, not much value 95% (or 99%) of the time until it is needed. I too can make 2wd vehicles of various makes and configurations work in adverse conditions. I was brought up in eastern Oregon where winters included snow and ice for extended time and we only had 2wd vehicles. But, I want the extra margin of safety and capability and am willing to pay extra for that. In the end it is a value judgement.
JP
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Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
21:23:07
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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Sooo... 100% of the working people in Buffalo have AWD or 4wd? I wonder how people got around in 1972 when there were no awd cars, and 90% of the pickups were 2wd. They also didn't do near as much to the roads as far as plowing and sanding then either. Maybe the climate has changed over the last 30 years, forget global warming, it must be global cooling.
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Will
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
22:46:44
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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I'm not saying that everyone has it, nor am I saying that everyone who lives there absolutely cannot live without it, I am saying however that 4WD can be extremely beneficial to have is those type of conditions. Also plowing and anti-skid often cannot keep up with some of the amounts that LES can put down, I can't tell you the amount of times I have seen people with FWD, RWD, 4WD, AWD sitting at a stoplight spinning their wheels right after a plow truck has come through, however on average the 4WD and AWD get going alot easier than 2WD.
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JDM
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
22:53:44
|  RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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Read all the posts, the bottom line is , how many times do you need the exra traction and what is the LAW!. In Calif, there are times when you must have either 4x4 or put on the chains. I've done both, and I'll go with turnin' the switch before crawling underneath and wrasling with a set of chains in the freakin' cold.....BTW, I'm not a kid anymore. Pay the bucks, get a 4x4
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mddak
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
22:54:04
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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knew a guy from buffalo once. asked why he left to come to Baltimore MD. He asked if i was ever there, said from November thru may there is snow on the ground and it's always snowing--so he left. You gotta do what you gotta do.
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Will
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2002
23:21:56
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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Yeah, I live in Erie which is about 2 hours south of Buffalo, and we pretty much have the same scenario, you learn to live with it thought also I'm in search of a snowplow if anyone has any reccomendations.
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JP
Dodge Dakota
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11/20/2002
20:43:19
| RE: 2wd vs 4wd
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I think one of the points Hersbird was making earlier in this thread is that overall 4wd is not safer. After thinking about it some I can see that if you are inexperienced in using 4wd or AWD you could get into bigger trouble than with 2wd. That may true, but I still think for those of us with the right skills and an understanding of the performance limitations of 4wd/AWD we are overall safer. Being able to do more things on and off road is just a bonus! JP
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